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 Post subject: Arms Warrior DPS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Some references

DPS warrior calc spreadsheet utility (Arms and Fury)
http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t37462-warr ... readsheet/

Note, theres a version for the newer excel, and older.

Quote:
The following spreadsheet is the product of the need for a user friendly and accurate DPS calculation and gear selection tool and about a year of use/comments from players just like you! Please download the sheet and try it yourself and pass along your suggestions and also if you find any bugs, please send me a PM! You may also talk about cool findings while using the spreadsheet in this thread. The three main goals of this project are: accuracy, simplicity, and user-friendliness. Please be sure to read the directions on the intro page in full and familiarize yourself with the program before you post in this thread, or send me PM's with questions. These spreadsheets are only compatible with and designed in Microsoft Excel '97 and '07. Please do not try to use them with Google Docs, Open Office, or any other spreadsheet program for they will not work. Please don't use the spreadsheet to determine if fury is better than arms or not. It's just a metric to determine what gear to acquire to get the most efficient output. They are pretty close to where the better player will do more damage regardless of spec. Thank you for all your support!


In depth discussions
http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t37807-dept ... cussion/p1

Here is a guide for 3.1 from Tankspot
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f177/486 ... guide.html

-------------------------------------------------
Im really, really trying to decide if arms is more viable than fury.

Without a real raid setting its hard to tell. Sloppy arms work did more DPS on a test dummy than fury did, but without full raid buffs, heroism and raid damage a level 80 test dummy isnt a great comparison.

I managed to do this in a sartharion pug but wasnt too thrilled about the numbers. (breakdowns page, if the link doesnt work.)

I was also most damage done to Tenebron, over the ranged too. Although my AOE sucked. Not pleased with arms AOE. All you got is bladestorm, and sweeping strikes which doesnt seem to hit much at all. Fury's cleave (specced and glyphed) with WW every 8 seconds is far superior in terms of overal AOE capability, compared to the burst of bladestorm.

Note, bladestorm also gets you killed.

The base concept being

SD > OP > MS > Slam

Being good about weaving slams in every time the others are on cooldown basically makes or breaks the arms DPS. If your sloppy on the slams, your DPS is going to drop obviously. The goal in each parse

Have a slam for each taste for blood
Have an execute for each sudden death
Have excellent uptime on rend, obviously
Slams any time the others are on cooldown (too hard to check imo)

After more practice I've got that down but the numbers are not convincing.

I read the tip to change all gems to ArP but Im not completely sold on that either. I'll be making some gear changes tonight before raid now that I have the 1 missing badge I needed. We shall see. Im aiming for an additional 49 Arp and about 50 more STR, putting me over 4K AP unbuffed as arms.

There is some speculation that during raid damage, infini-rage scenarios, and bloodlust to switch to

OP > SD > MS, spamming heroic strike to dump extra rage, instead of slams.

Im not totally on board with that. If you throw heroic strikes, your rage is gonna drop hard. With no white swings to provide income on something like XT's heart, your just gonna run yourself dry unless you "occasionally tap heroic strike". And if your occasionally tapping it, why not just slam like usual.

Theres a macro floating around, which is kinda laughable

/castrandom Execute, Overpower, Mortal Strike, Slam

Surprisingly, for a facerolling macro the test numbers were pretty damn high. But dissapointed it misses many SD and TFB procs.

So I changed it to

/castrandom Execute, Overpower, Mortal Strike (Your three instants)
Slam manually when these three are not lit

This is actually a little harder to use than you would think. Since its random, you have to spam the button a billion times for it to hit the desired cooldowns. However

It didnt miss execute procs.
It didnt miss overpower procs.

I think a G15 is in order, to press those four buttons in sequence ( DS>OP>MS>Slam) But I guess its been made clear you can get banned for that.

Thats almost like a /castsquence macro, however a real castsequence macro will sit and wait for an ability, whether its usuable or not. A G15 will not care.

UGH. I wish to make my arms debute soon, but I have no clue what im gonna do yet. LOL Sigh. If it can't put out close to the numbers I was putting out as fury, we will switch back. But its hard to say, not knowing how im gonna macro it yet, or if I'm even gonna do that. My best attempt on heroic heartbreaker was a little over 6K; thats one heart phase (Tho I think I wasted time DPSing the adds cuz I hardly put a dent into them anyway compared to the range) if arms can't come close...... well, then

Arms ---->Window

Summary

Arms is a huge game of wack-a-mole. Hit whatever lights up. Oh BTW, you can't pummel without some fancy dance moves. Heh.

One shitty aspect of arms, is the abilities for sudden death, taste for blood and improved execute are basically locked in, and the talent tree lends 0 room for adjustments or preference; unlike fury where you have 3-5 points to play with. =/

Sundering as arms is also absolutely terrible.

As fury, you sunder when everythings on cooldown.
As arms, nothing is ever on cooldown, and each sunder costs you anywhere from 3K to 6/7K damage each.


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 Post subject: Re: Arms Warrior DPS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:48 pm 
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I want to roll a DPS warrior, but i'm scared i'll be stuck tanking =[

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 Post subject: Re: Arms Warrior DPS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:14 am 
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When DPSing as a warrior, I've never ever considered using HS due to the reasons you've already mentioned. Was gonna say that Shattering Throw is some kind of raid buff similar like Bloodlust but I'd think you already use it as Fury even.

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 Post subject: Re: Arms Warrior DPS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Fury's deathwish is far superior for personal DPS

Shattering throw
1.5s cast time <----- yuck
20% reduced armor for 10 seconds

Deathwish
20% increased damage for 20 seconds

Shattering throw affecting all melee / hunters in raids, however. The biggest shit about it is the 5m cooldown.


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 Post subject: Re: Arms Warrior DPS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:47 pm 
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PROS:

Rage management. Is a non issue. Arms rarely ever 'doesnt have rage' to use any of its GCD's. Whereas with fury, you must watch carefully and be great at managing your heroic strikes and balancing your DPS with your rage income.

Ease of DPS: Three instant GCD type attacks, just hit the buttons any time they light up, slam if they don't. Theres not a whole lot more to it. Thats why even a /castrandom macro can put out good DPS. Heh. The concept is so simple, its just everything 'else' around it like movement and sundering that can make it suck

Itemization: You need one weapon, not two. If specced correctly, you need 12 expertise. The rest is gravy.

Versatility: Specced arms, you can DPS for a raid then hit a battleground without respeccing.

Thrill factor. No really. Theres something thrilling about hitting for 6-7K crits on every ability you've got with a two hander. Getting a crit on almost every overpower is awesome, and of course - bladestorm. Mua ha ha ha

Gimick. General Vexax -20% swing speed got you down? Arms probably won't care as much as fury. Your DPSing off GCDS and rend anyway. Tho, you cannot pummel. I bet ignis would be good too - considering you don't move at all. You can slam to your hearts content.

Questing. Mobs usually die in 2-3 hits, kk thx

Raid buffs
4% Phy damage to the raid on your target
30% damage from all bleed effects (covered by druids anyway)
20% reduced armor 10 seconds from shattering throw

CONS:

Movement. With four GCD attacks, one of them being a castbar, its much harder to buzz around bosses and dodge icicles and still put out steady DPS, let alone watch four abilities plus rend, sunder, demo shout. Some type of DPS macro would greatly help with that, although you still can't slam while moving and avoiding things. Slam is often interrupted as well. Pretty tough to watch your toon and move from death when your babysitting all these abilities.

Sundering: When your fury, you can sunder in between GCD's and it costs you virtually nothing during a fight, when sunders are already stacked. Arms has 4 GCD attacks, therefore any sunder just cost you big damage. Some fights are just terrible for it too.

XT002 the heart comes out, depending on others or raid comp you could be looking at 5 sunders then your rend, thats SIX global cooldowns your not DPSing. By the time your ready to DPS, the heart phase is almost half finished. Then the boss comes back out, and he lost all his debuffs as well. Then the heart comes back out, with no debuffs. Then the boss. Have fun with this one. And since sunder costs you a GCD attack, you can't just sneak them in there between GCD's. If you had some promise that a warrior tank is always present, life could be easier. But not practical to assume that, ever.

Heroism: With fury, you can pop deathwish and heroic strike like no tomorrow, while blowing your two GCDs, and throw a sunder between those without any DPS or time lost either. With arms, theres not much anything 'special' you can do except keep pounding your GCD's like usual. And if the sunder stack dropped, good luck getting it back up and DPSing during a heroism.

Micro managing

Fury: Two GCDs, one next-melee attack not on GCD, sunder, demo, battle
Arms: Three GCDs (two of them proc type), a cast-timer GCD attack, sunder, demo, battle, rend
^ The second option sucks.

Interrupting. Can't pummel in battle stance. Fail.

RNG hates your life.

First fight.

0:03'43.329 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Heart of the Deconstructor for 9481 Physical. (Critical)
0:03'44.535 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Heart of the Deconstructor for 10197 Physical. (Critical)
0:03'45.320 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Heart of the Deconstructor for 11968 Physical. (Critical)
0:03'46.552 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Heart of the Deconstructor for 12799 Physical. (Critical)
0:03'47.361 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Heart of the Deconstructor for 11351 Physical. (Critical)
0:03'48.557 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Heart of the Deconstructor for 12853 Physical. (Critical)
0:03'49.464 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Heart of the Deconstructor for 11875 Physical. (Critical)

(Thats 11.5K dps lol)

Second fight.

0:04'09.134 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Hodir for 2321 Physical.
0:04'10.412 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Hodir for 2153 Physical.
0:04'11.177 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Hodir for 2426 Physical. (76 Blocked)
0:04'12.394 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Hodir for 2580 Physical.
0:04'13.204 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Hodir for 2618 Physical. (76 Blocked)
0:04'14.483 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Hodir for 2433 Physical.
0:04'15.154 Ryoko Whirlwind hits Hodir for 2543 Physical.


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 Post subject: Re: Arms Warrior DPS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:01 pm 
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dom wrote:
I want to roll a DPS warrior, but i'm scared i'll be stuck tanking =[


Well, now they have DK's to bitch at for not wanting to tank XD

But in all reality, yes. You'll sit in LFG for hours if people are being anti-dps warrior. Theres a lot of terrible ones out there and a waste of peoples time to take to dungeons. Its better than it was before WotlK, when people used to use CC and you'd never get a spot since you don't have any.

[LookingForGroup] LF TANK and HEALER for heroic, have ret pally arms warrior and shadowpriest


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 Post subject: Re: Arms Warrior DPS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:55 pm 
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Ryoko wrote:
[LookingForGroup] LF TANK and HEALER for heroic, have ret pally arms warrior and shadowpriest



Farking loled.

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 Post subject: Re: Arms Warrior DPS
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:12 pm 
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I decided to pick up Arms as my second spec since there's so many prot warriors running around in my guild these days that I feel like a DK. So... no problem with stacking sunders if the tank has half a brain. Also picked up quite a bit of DPS plates since people prefer to hog around their T7/7.5 lal.

On the note about stacking ArP, I think a cap was introduced recently right? Saw some blue posts about it and some warrior QQs. Is it still viable to go crazy with it instead of stacking expensive red str gems?

And what's with the deal of letting Rend fall off? I didn't get that part. :/

EDIT: Ugh, wait 16 ArP gems are red too... And about letting Rend fall off, is it because due to TfB has 6 seconds cooldown and by putting Rend back up after it falls off will let the last tick DoT and the next tick will sure to proc TfB since by putting it back after it falls off will take around >6 seconds, guaranteeing TfB to proc.

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 Post subject: Re: Arms Warrior DPS
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:21 pm 
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ArP is a funny animal, I'll do my best to explain.

Armor has diminishing returns for the wearer, including mobs.

The different between 34K and 33K armor is very small, perhaps 1%ish.

The difference between 4K armor and 5K armor is massive.

When you have " a little " ArP all your doing is skimming off the top of the targets diminishing returns. For example, you have 5% armor penetration. Taking the top 5% of the targets armor isnt all that much, and STR is still better than ArP in the terms of itemization.

When you have 25%... 30% or in my case 37% armor penetration, now your cutting deep down into the lower armor values, and ArP is now greater than STR in the terms of itemization, gemming.

Until you reach the turning point and ArP > STR, don't gem for it. However, do choose items that have ArP, because ArP on items is how you reach that turning point. Once your there, you can consider going ArP gems.

Do note, you get 126 (something?) ArP for being in battle stance; you get another 15% (thats huge! huge!) for mace spec. If your using a mace, your already close to that turning point when you add in the battle stance buff. =)

As far as rend, the worst part about letting it drop is that its not doing damage when its not on the boss :P Dont worry so much about TfB exact timing of its proc - with arms DPS you will always have SOME GCD to press regardless. The annoying thing about rend, is a lot of times you used it when you had DPS procs going off, so you'll get this message "A more powerful spell is already active" and you HAVE to wait till it drops to put another on.


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