Lich King Finale - MAJOR SPOILERS!!

Lempi · **Joined:** Oct 2008 **Posts:** 3202 **Location:** England

As we all know, as of tommorow the Lich King will be killable. Yesterday the final Cutscene was leaked onto you tube and has got almost 500k views in less than 24hours.

The spoiler below is quoted from Wowhead and contains major spoilers to the wrath of the lich king expansion

The cutscene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ0EJTeQ5gw (Also, obviously, contains major spoilers) - Blizzard had it removed. Will post new one when I find it.

Spoiler!

The fate of Highlord Bolvar Fordragon is now clear and confirmed. He did indeed (as we already know) survive the battle at the Wrathgate. Being tortured by Arthas, Bolvar still refused to become his servant and champion.

After the death of Arthas Menethil, Tirion was ready to take his place as the new Lich King in order to keep the Scourge at bay. However, just before he put on the Lich Kings' crown, a familiar voice shouted out to him.

Highlord Bolvar Fordragon, engulfed in fires still burning from the purification of Alexstrazas' red flame that was used to cleanse the Wrathgate, called out to Tirion. He convinced him to put the helmet of the Lich King on his head instead. Bolvar also told Tirion that none must know what truly went down in Icecrown Citadel that day, as if people were to realize that a Lich King was still alive, they could not avoid to live in fear and panic for the rest of their lives.

Refusing at first, Tirion finally did what Bolvar asked him to. The eyes of the Lich King opened up once again, covering Bolvars'. The soul of one of the mightiest beings ever seen on Azeroth had corrupted a man who was pure at heart and true to all he believed in. Bolvar sealed himself as the Lich King in a block of ice and told Tirion to leave and never come back. This was the only way that Bolvar could aid the world now. He would forever keep the Scourge away from Azeroth.

The man who did something so great for the world he loves would be forgotten to cover up the existence of the Lich King. The man who boldly put the crown of the Chill of the Damned would do so without anyone knowing. And by the years he would always protect his beloved world in silence.
Though no one would ever come to realize it, know that the end of the Scourge didn't come without a price. The world would've been destroyed if it wasn't for him.

Even though his existence was meant to fade always remember Highlord Bolvar Fordragon. A man who always wanted the best for his people and home. A hero till the end of his own days.

Always remember Highlord Bolvar Fordragon - The Lich King.

Lempi · **Joined:** Oct 2008 **Posts:** 3202 **Location:** England

Video just got nerfed by Blizz after almost 800,000 views :banghead:

/Pi · **Joined:** May 2007 **Posts:** 4590 **Location:**

viewtopic.php?f=103&t=118304&start=30

Lempi · **Joined:** Oct 2008 **Posts:** 3202 **Location:** England

I tend to not check 2 month old threads for new content. :roll:

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:03 am

Blood Legion got the world first kill...it was 1om but still cool...Illidan trade chat was awash people people congratulating them and people raging at them lol...so proud of my server, now we've got a nifty new statue in the center of dalaran T_T

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:45 pm

ensidia got 25man world first although slight bug which was in their favor (which they declared)

takolin · **Joined:** Jan 2007 **Posts:** 4238 **Location:** Life

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

ensidia got 25man world first although slight bug which was in their favor (which they declared)

Declaration lead to a 3day ban + removal of the achievement.

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:24 pm

takolin wrote:

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

ensidia got 25man world first although slight bug which was in their favor (which they declared)

Declaration lead to a 3day ban + removal of the achievement.

pretty sure it was then continuing a bugged fight that lead to the 3-day ban + removal of achievement. People are picking sides saying its Blizzards fault for not testing the encounter properly but i don't think they'd be so hasty about a decision like this. Its not like a computer sent out auto-bans, they reviewed the logs of the fight and came to a conclusion that the use of Saronite Bombs was not a happy accident but a purpose one and therefore an exploit...wonder who will get the the world first 25m now...

Zypher · **Joined:** Sep 2006 **Posts:** 8705 **Location:** Canada

http://ensidia.com/muqq/blog/4078/

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:06 pm

XemnasXD wrote:

takolin wrote:

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

ensidia got 25man world first although slight bug which was in their favor (which they declared)

Declaration lead to a 3day ban + removal of the achievement.

pretty sure it was then continuing a bugged fight that lead to the 3-day ban + removal of achievement. People are picking sides saying its Blizzards fault for not testing the encounter properly but i don't think they'd be so hasty about a decision like this. Its not like a computer sent out auto-bans, they reviewed the logs of the fight and came to a conclusion that the use of Saronite Bombs was not a happy accident but a purpose one and therefore an exploit...wonder who will get the the world first 25m now...

personally i think they didnt realise until after they looked data charts of the fight i mean during the fight its hard to atribute 1 factor to the bug when people are doing so much, the fact they declared it was honorable they knew what could happen and evidently it did happen this is much more favorable then doing it knowing there was a bug

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:49 pm

i don't get why people are saying they declared it as if blizzard wouldn't know what was happening had they not. I mean, they have logs of everything so declaration or not they still would've gotten a ban. You take the world first kill using a bug but because you tell people you used the bug its honorable? Honorable would've been letting blizz patch the fight then do it the way it should be done, in his blog he complains that the game isn't challenging but he purposely used an exploit that enabled him to bypass a challenging aspect of the fight...this just seems like mountains of fail logic...

also cause its funny...taken from mmo champ

Spoiler!

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:14 pm

XemnasXD wrote:

i don't get why people are saying they declared it as if blizzard wouldn't know what was happening had they not. I mean, they have logs of everything so declaration or not they still would've gotten a ban. You take the world first kill using a bug but because you tell people you used the bug its honorable? Honorable would've been letting blizz patch the fight then do it the way it should be done, in his blog he complains that the game isn't challenging but he purposely used an exploit that enabled him to bypass a challenging aspect of the fight...this just seems like mountains of fail logic...

and how do you localise the bug mid fight? as far as we are to understand that phase is the easiest without bug so with that logic the attempt they got to that phase could well have been on the attempt they down the boss so having the bug pop up what are you meant to do wipe? they had no idea they have proven time and time again they avoid bug exploits any they do come accross they declare sure wether they do or dont likly dont matter but declaring is saying yes we know about the bug we understand what could happen.

But put yourself in that position how do you find out what the bug is until after you have downed the boss?

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:25 am

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

XemnasXD wrote:

i don't get why people are saying they declared it as if blizzard wouldn't know what was happening had they not. I mean, they have logs of everything so declaration or not they still would've gotten a ban. You take the world first kill using a bug but because you tell people you used the bug its honorable? Honorable would've been letting blizz patch the fight then do it the way it should be done, in his blog he complains that the game isn't challenging but he purposely used an exploit that enabled him to bypass a challenging aspect of the fight...this just seems like mountains of fail logic...

and how do you localise the bug mid fight? as far as we are to understand that phase is the easiest without bug so with that logic the attempt they got to that phase could well have been on the attempt they down the boss so having the bug pop up what are you meant to do wipe? they had no idea they have proven time and time again they avoid bug exploits any they do come accross they declare sure wether they do or dont likly dont matter but declaring is saying yes we know about the bug we understand what could happen.

But put yourself in that position how do you find out what the bug is until after you have downed the boss?

Uh...they downed him in 10m so its not like they had no idea how the fight was supposed to work. Please tell you don't believe that just because they trivialized the importance of the extra space the bug afford them that means that the bug itself was trivial. During that phase with limited space and tons of people running around you have to avoid an aoe that increases in size the more damage it deals and Valkyrs that swoop down and carry raid members off if they aren't dps'd fast enough. They called it the easiest phase because they turned it into a joke by eliminating one of the new mechanics. It was obvious that the ledge wasn't meant to respawn, they know that from their 10m encounter. Thats what makes the phase difficult, thats why he breaks it.

Did they know what caused the bug. I have no idea. Did they know there was a bug, obviously because they admitted to it and the know the way the fight is supposed to work. Rather than wait and have the bug get fixed and do the fight the way it was intended they carried on with it and downed him. Do i think they deserve a ban for it, idk. That's for blizzard to decide and they did. I have a certain amount of faith that Blizzard wouldn't make a ban like this without going over it in depth. There was a ban therefore there was cause to ban. Do i think they deserve the achieve for this kill and loot and prestige that comes along with it, certainly not. Paragon managed to down it without exploiting faulty game mechanics, obviously they deserve it more. If people from Ensidia don't understand this then i believe they have their heads very far up there own asses.

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:23 am

XemnasXD wrote:

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

XemnasXD wrote:

i don't get why people are saying they declared it as if blizzard wouldn't know what was happening had they not. I mean, they have logs of everything so declaration or not they still would've gotten a ban. You take the world first kill using a bug but because you tell people you used the bug its honorable? Honorable would've been letting blizz patch the fight then do it the way it should be done, in his blog he complains that the game isn't challenging but he purposely used an exploit that enabled him to bypass a challenging aspect of the fight...this just seems like mountains of fail logic...

and how do you localise the bug mid fight? as far as we are to understand that phase is the easiest without bug so with that logic the attempt they got to that phase could well have been on the attempt they down the boss so having the bug pop up what are you meant to do wipe? they had no idea they have proven time and time again they avoid bug exploits any they do come accross they declare sure wether they do or dont likly dont matter but declaring is saying yes we know about the bug we understand what could happen.

But put yourself in that position how do you find out what the bug is until after you have downed the boss?

Uh...they downed him in 10m so its not like they had no idea how the fight was supposed to work. Please tell you don't believe that just because they trivialized the importance of the extra space the bug afford them that means that the bug itself was trivial. During that phase with limited space and tons of people running around you have to avoid an aoe that increases in size the more damage it deals and Valkyrs that swoop down and carry raid members off if they aren't dps'd fast enough. They called it the easiest phase because they turned it into a joke by eliminating one of the new mechanics. It was obvious that the ledge wasn't meant to respawn, they know that from their 10m encounter. Thats what makes the phase difficult, thats why he breaks it.

Did they know what caused the bug. I have no idea. Did they know there was a bug, obviously because they admitted to it and the know the way the fight is supposed to work. Rather than wait and have the bug get fixed and do the fight the way it was intended they carried on with it and downed him. Do i think they deserve a ban for it, idk. That's for blizzard to decide and they did. I have a certain amount of faith that Blizzard wouldn't make a ban like this without going over it in depth. There was a ban therefore there was cause to ban. Do i think they deserve the achieve for this kill and loot and prestige that comes along with it, certainly not. Paragon managed to down it without exploiting faulty game mechanics, obviously they deserve it more. If people from Ensidia don't understand this then i believe they have their heads very far up there own asses.

i have read very little on the matter yeh they downed in 10man but the bug isnt present there, 25man more varity thus hard to localise the problem and once its down its down they could have stopped and wiped but i can say with certainty no one else would stop they downed it and declared the bug as soon as they found out, not saying they dont deserve a ban or praise for downing it im merly saying they didnt do wrong not like they went out the way to exploit the bug otherwise they would have had more then 1 rogue present (dont say they wouldnt they are a pro raiding guild each boss players get replaced there isnt usually a set team from a to b atleast not in progress later they will but i digress)

paragon did the boss after the hot fix btw so bringing them into it isnt relevent im sure ensidia would have did it bug or no bug they have proven that time and time again since c'thun

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:15 am

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

i have read very little on the matter yeh they downed in 10man but the bug isnt present there, 10m was brought up only to display the fact that they know how the fight is supposed to work. This point was made to counter your argument that they had no way of knowing something was wrong 25man more varity thus hard to localise the problem and once its down its down they could have stopped and wiped Its not their job to find problems, thats Blizzards. They should've alerted them of the bug so it could be fix'd and they could handle the encounter the way it was meant to be handled but i can say with certainty no one else would stop they downed it and declared the bug as soon as they found out, Your fanboy is showing. You're talking about these people like you know them irl or have any clue as to how there guild works and how they operate. These are not facts. These are clearly biased assumptions and a strawman argument at that, diverting attention away from the actual fault committed. not saying they dont deserve a ban or praise for downing it im merly saying they didnt do wrong not like they went out the way to exploit the bug otherwise they would have had more then 1 rogue present More fanboy here wong and its getting old. Now you are implying the the only crime with using this exploit would've been to abuse it further and since they did not over abuse an exploit then they did no wrong. They used an exploit to defeat TLK. That is the bottom line. The question isn't whether or not it is right or wrong to do such a thing or to what degree they exploited the exploit. That is irrelevant when using exploits is against the rules. (dont say they wouldnt they are a pro raiding guild each boss players get replaced there isnt usually a set team from a to b atleast not in progress later they will but i digress)

paragon did the boss after the hot fix btw so bringing them into it isnt relevent im sure ensidia would have did it bug or no bug they have proven that time and time again since c'thun Then they should've done it without the bug that eliminated a key mechanic in one of the phases of the fight. Its obvious that discussing this logically, just the facts, without bias, is impossible with you. You seem to believe that Ensidia is not only more morally sound than any other top guild but that because they didn't over abuse the exploit they had every right to use it without fear of being punished. Furthermore you seem to think that a Legit kill against The Lich King, won without abusing bugs and skipping fight mechanics is not as important as Defeating TLK first, no matter how hax it was done. I can see why you like these guys so much. Im sure that was going through their mind as well. In fact i know it was because on their Blog muqq states very clearly that as far as they are concerned THEY got the World First Lich King kill. So it doesn't matter to you guys how its done as long as its done i guess, but rules were broken so punishment was in order.

bakafish · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:29 am

Ensidia is one of the top guilds in the world and frankly I doubt the rogue in question who exploited is not smart enough to not notice the effects of using the saronite bombs in that fight.

He could be using it for the other fights but I doubt he couldn't have noticed the effects of his actions midway (I mean c'mon the platforms are rebuilding) and he probably chose to exploit that bug instead of reporting it to snag a world first. Well deserved ban really.

Blizzard having this so called "broken" encounter is not a good excuse really, given the fact that the encounter itself was never on the PTR to be tested for weird stuff like this and it has been long known that the FT will be falling apart as the LK fight goes, I even saw it on MMO Champ, doubt world class guilds will miss out on infos like that.

Just saw the blog on Ensidia, this muqq guy is a twat rofl.

/Pi · **Joined:** May 2007 **Posts:** 4590 **Location:**

Just throwing this out there. Someone pointed it out in WoW.com

Muqq's post was a call-out on the game designers, likely towards Jeff Kaplan, Blizzard/WoW Game Designer. Kaplan was the leader of the Legacy of Steel guild in Everquest back in earyl 2000s. He then ragequit/QQ'd (just like Muqq) over some crazy-ass boss fight, and ranted about it on a blog. He eventually went on and designed quests, dungeons, raids, etc. to what would become World of Warcraft.

Jeff Kaplan (aka Tigole)'s post:

Quote:

Fix your goddamn buggy bullshit half-assed encounters. The amount of time we dedicated to get our keys to see this guy die and take a turn at the Emperor is just sick. To finally see Blood die only to have the ENTIRE raid DT'd from anywhere in the room was simply an insult. Blood dies, there are two earrings on the corpse, yet no matter where you are in the room, the Emperor DT's. So congrats rot on those. It's cheap enough to make a mob DT in the first place. But to have his agro radius extend to the entire room is ridiculous. So let me get this straight -- and this is how you guys envisioned this in San Diego: You spend months farming keys to get up to the room. Months farming Shissar Bane weapons (and the recipe is where?). You kill Blood while dealing with 8 other snakes in the room. And immediately after that fight you're supposed to engage the DEATHTOUCHING-FROM-ANYWHERE-IN-THE-ROOM Emperor along with the 8 snakes? Whoever came up with this sheer *fisting* of an encounter can go **** themselves. Do me a favor so I don't waste my guild's time on this kind of jackass shit-fest again, send me an email at tigole@legacyofsteel.net when you decide to A) Implement an encounter that wasn't designed by a retarded chimp chained to a cubicle B) Get a Quality Assuarance Department C) Actually beta test the Farking thing and D) Patch it live. And please for god's sake -- do it in the order I laid out for you. Don't worry, I won't charge you a consulting fee on that one. And for good luck you might as well E) Pull your heads out of your asses. While you're at it rename the game to BetaQuest since you've used up you're alotted false advertising karma on the Bazaar and user interface scam of '01.

Fix the Emperor encounter. Fix Seru. Rethink your time-sink bullshit. Fix all the buggy motherfucking ring encounters (I suggest you let whoever made the Burrower one do this since that dude apparently laid off the crack the rest of you were smoking). Fix the VT key quest. Fix VT (just guessing it's farked up considering your track record). Don't have the resources to fix this stuff? Move the ENTIRE Planes of Power team over to fixing Shadows of Luclin AND DO IT NOW. If you don't fix Luclin, you jackassess will be the only ones playing the Planes of Power.

Source: http://www.legacyofsteel.net/oldsite/arc27.html

Muqq's post:

Spoiler!

Quote:

Fix your goddamn buggy bullshit half-assed encounters. The amount of time and effort we dedicated to get through Wrath of the Lich king and Icecrown to see this guy die and take a turn at Arthas is just sick. To finally see him die only to have the ENTIRE raid banned is simply an insult. It's cheap enough to make a bugged Farking encounter, but to ban people when they do not know what's causing the bugs is just a Farking joke. Whoever came up with this sheer *fisting* of an idea can go **** themselves. If you spent hours observing us in GM-mode when we beta-test the encounters for you on live, at least make sure you ban us for the right reason. Handing out suspensions when players encounter a portion of the game that is bugged is very short-sighted and insulting. There's been hundreds of thousands of bugs in this game up til now, and most people don't get banned, when just playing their game through the bugged content you throw in their face.

Shoving PTR down our throats every patch is one thing, it's fine that we Farking beta-test shit for you, but then you go and suspend players when they do content that was never tested on PTR, and happened to be bugged. Content which you don't bother quality-assuring more than sticking a Farking godmode GM and 5 test dummies into the encounter and blasting past the phases without using abilities. Give me a break. You know more than us that we kept using our normal rotations and didn't do anything out of the ordinary. Why would we bother trying to kill valkyrs every attempt, and have the bug happen on only about half of them before wiping? You think we wanted to waste attempts if we knew how to exploit this clusterfuck of an encounter of yours?

Do me a favor so I don't waste my guild's time on this kind of jackass ****-fest again, send me an email at mupp@gavle.to when you decide to A) Implement an encounter that wasn't designed by a retarded chimp chained to a cubicle B) Get a Quality Assuarance Department C) Actually beta test the !**#ing thing and D) Patch it live. And please for god's sake -- do it in the order I laid out for you. Don't worry, I won't charge you a consulting fee on that one. And for good luck you might as well E) Pull your heads out of your asses. While you're at it rename the game to World of Betacraft.

Rethink your Farking bullshit. Fix all the buggy motherfucking ICC encounters (I suggest you let whoever made the Blood Queen one do this since that dude apparently laid off the crack the rest of you were smoking). Fix Farking arenas, or better yet, remove that shit. Fix heroic modes (just guessing it's farked up considering your track record). Don't have the resources to fix this stuff? Move the ENTIRE Cataclysm team over to fixing Icecrown Citadel AND DO IT NOW. If you don't fix this shit, you jackassess together with the 2 month-subscribers will be the only ones playing Cataclysm.

Touché?

MrJoey · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:53 am

About Farking time Ensidia got banned for exploiting a fight. They got world first for one or two other fights, later on it turns out they had exploited each and every one of them, yet no ban.

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:57 pm

XemnasXD wrote:

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

i have read very little on the matter yeh they downed in 10man but the bug isnt present there, 10m was brought up only to display the fact that they know how the fight is supposed to work. This point was made to counter your argument that they had no way of knowing something was wrong 25man more varity thus hard to localise the problem and once its down its down they could have stopped and wiped Its not their job to find problems, thats Blizzards. They should've alerted them of the bug so it could be fix'd and they could handle the encounter the way it was meant to be handled but i can say with certainty no one else would stop they downed it and declared the bug as soon as they found out, Your fanboy is showing. You're talking about these people like you know them irl or have any clue as to how there guild works and how they operate. These are not facts. These are clearly biased assumptions and a strawman argument at that, diverting attention away from the actual fault committed.no that comment is based on what i would do and what i think many others would do not saying they dont deserve a ban or praise for downing it im merly saying they didnt do wrong not like they went out the way to exploit the bug otherwise they would have had more then 1 rogue present More fanboy here wong and its getting old. Now you are implying the the only crime with using this exploit would've been to abuse it further and since they did not over abuse an exploit then they did no wrong. again yes i dont think its the worse thing you can do, never said they didnt deserve what they got, i did say 25 people in a raid you have wiped a few times used attempts then this happens how do you know what it is, the rogue isnt doing anything different so why would he notice first?They used an exploit to defeat TLK. That is the bottom line. The question isn't whether or not it is right or wrong to do such a thing or to what degree they exploited the exploit. That is irrelevant when using exploits is against the rules. [/b](dont say they wouldnt they are a pro raiding guild each boss players get replaced there isnt usually a set team from a to b atleast not in progress later they will but i digress)

paragon did the boss after the hot fix btw so bringing them into it isnt relevent im sure ensidia would have did it bug or no bug they have proven that time and time again since c'thun Then they should've done it without the bug that eliminated a key mechanic in one of the phases of the fight. Its obvious that discussing this logically, just the facts, without bias, is impossible with you. You seem to believe that Ensidia is not only more morally sound than any other top guild i never said that you did i follow more then one top guild eu/us but that because they didn't over abuse the exploit they had every right to use it without fear of being punished.never said they shouldnt be punished Furthermore you seem to think that a Legit kill against The Lich King, won without abusing bugs and skipping fight mechanics is not as important as Defeating TLK first maybe it did come accross like that i didnt mean it to its more important then a bugged kill as its the first true world first, no matter how hax it was done. I can see why you like these guys so much.ok thats an attack on me which is off-topic how or why i like them isnt part of the discussion Im sure that was going through their mind as well. In fact i know it was because on their Blog muqq states very clearly that as far as they are concerned THEY got the World First Lich King kill. So it doesn't matter to you guys how its done as long as its done i guess, but rules were broken so punishment was in order.muqq's blog was a little over the top although i agree with various points such as this encounter wasnt teasted properly but they didnt get the world first.

when your trying to make a point dont jump to assumptions and add your own content to someone else posts only comment on whats there

MrJoey wrote:

About Farking time Ensidia got banned for exploiting a fight. They got world first for one or two other fights, later on it turns out they had exploited each and every one of them, yet no ban.

what bosses? they only other boss in wotlk that was bugged in a world first attempt was one of the ulduar keepers they informed blizzard again about that one

so your all counts as 2 out of 45 wotlk raid bosses two in which they declared then did it after the hotfix on the keeper not sure what or if any at all punishment was given

but this not at all like going out there to exploit the boss these came up unexpectedly though no fault of their own they did no use some weird tactic to get the boss, on the keeper the mages used spell steal to get better dps but that was used from freya boss

MrJoey · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:34 pm

They exploited to kill Algalon or w/e his name is, and Yogg Saron.

bakafish · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:06 pm

I believe they exploited something like having mages spellsteal some buff on some plants at Freya to kill Mimiron pre nerf.

Zypher · **Joined:** Sep 2006 **Posts:** 8705 **Location:** Canada

u call it exploiting, i call it clever use of game mechanics

takolin · **Joined:** Jan 2007 **Posts:** 4238 **Location:** Life

Mimiron was paladins judging light or something and thus increasing healing.
And the spellstealing was for Hodirs hard mode.

Yogg+0 was done normally by Ensidia, it was Exodus who evade bugged the adds and got a ban for that+removal of achievements.

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:01 pm

MrJoey wrote:

They exploited to kill Algalon or w/e his name is, and Yogg Saron.

no they didnt your just been retarded now go read up on these "exploit" kills your claiming both sides of the arguement may i add and find out what bosses they actually "exploited" in my books non as you need to know how to cause the bug to exploit it

Sae · **Joined:** Jul 2006 **Posts:** 556 **Location:** lol

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

MrJoey wrote:

They exploited to kill Algalon or w/e his name is, and Yogg Saron.

no they didnt your just been retarded now go read up on these "exploit" kills your claiming both sides of the arguement may i add and find out what bosses they actually "exploited" in my books non as you need to know how to cause the bug to exploit it

I think the more appropriate question is... who the f-ck cares? I don't really get why people follow around and defend these top guilds like they're members.

Anyways, too bad I cancelled my subscription, I always wanted to kill Arthas.

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:04 am

Sae wrote:

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

MrJoey wrote:

They exploited to kill Algalon or w/e his name is, and Yogg Saron.

no they didnt your just been retarded now go read up on these "exploit" kills your claiming both sides of the arguement may i add and find out what bosses they actually "exploited" in my books non as you need to know how to cause the bug to exploit it

I think the more appropriate question is... who the f-ck cares? I don't really get why people follow around and defend these top guilds like they're members.

Anyways, too bad I cancelled my subscription, I always wanted to kill Arthas.

who the **** cares coming from someone who quit is kind of self answering statement

i care i respect a lot of the top guilds and if i feel one is been picked on for the wrong reasons or stuff like the current ensidia situation il step in and say my bit

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:31 am

Master Wong wrote:

no that comment is based on what i would do and what i think many others would do

So its not fact or sucking up its just making assumptions about what millions of people would do...why even say it then, with "certainty"

Master Wong wrote:

...im merly saying they didnt do wrong...

again yes i dont think its the worse thing you can do, never said they didnt deserve what they got, i did say 25 people in a raid you have wiped a few times used attempts then this happens how do you know what it is, the rogue isnt doing anything different so why would he notice first?

That is not a response to my comment. You said they didn't do anything wrong by exploiting the bug. I already said its blizzards job to find and solve problems so they shouldn't have to worry about trying to figure out whats causing it. All they had to do was report it. I assume you are standing by your statement that continuing a bugged fight, knowing its bugged, and knowing that it makes the fight easier is not wrong to do at all. Im assuming this because after you said they didn't do anything wrong you continue to support this idea.

Master Wong wrote:

never said they shouldnt be punished

So you believe they did no wrong, but you also believe they should be punished. So they should be punished for not doing anything wrong?

Master Wong wrote:

ok thats an attack on me which is off-topic how or why i like them isnt part of the discussion

When you liking them causes you to make bias statements like

"im sure ensidia would have did it bug or no bug "

and

"certainty no one else would stop they downed it and declared the bug as soon as they found out"

i kinda get the idea that you're something like a cheerleader for them. Sounds like you're placing them on a pedestal. So when you do that, you bring your bias into question and into topic and so i commented on it.

Master Wong wrote:

when your trying to make a point dont jump to assumptions and add your own content to someone else posts only comment on whats there

you should really take your own advice...

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:46 pm

XemnasXD wrote:

Master Wong wrote:

no that comment is based on what i would do and what i think many others would do

So its not fact or sucking up its just making assumptions about what millions of people would do...why even say it then, with "certainty"

i stand by that statement and if you think your so high and mighty you would stop your one of the the few and with certainty is not 100% its more 90% sure

Master Wong wrote:

...im merly saying they didnt do wrong...

again yes i dont think its the worse thing you can do, never said they didnt deserve what they got, i did say 25 people in a raid you have wiped a few times used attempts then this happens how do you know what it is, the rogue isnt doing anything different so why would he notice first?

That is not a response to my comment. You said they didn't do anything wrong by exploiting the bug. I already said its blizzards job to find and solve problems so they shouldn't have to worry about trying to figure out whats causing it. All they had to do was report it. I assume you are standing by your statement that continuing a bugged fight, knowing its bugged, and knowing that it makes the fight easier is not wrong to do at all. Im assuming this because after you said they didn't do anything wrong you continue to support this idea.

Exploiting is knowing of the bug before hand and using it to your advantage

"In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers."

imo that means your using the bug to your advantage rather then it occuring mid fight which reading ensidias posts it didnt happen all the time yet they carried on trying

Master Wong wrote:

never said they shouldnt be punished

So you believe they did no wrong, but you also believe they should be punished. So they should be punished for not doing anything wrong?

well dispite not thinking they did wrong ultimatly they should have stopped the fight once it was noticed but in it not occuring more then once i feel they did some what right by just going though with it if anything it brough it more to the attention of blizzard

Master Wong wrote:

ok thats an attack on me which is off-topic how or why i like them isnt part of the discussion

When you liking them causes you to make bias statements like

"im sure ensidia would have did it bug or no bug "

im sure again isnt they would have its not 100% and although i do think they would have done it regardless as they have done such feats in the past that statment is and always will be open to interpretation in the mannor i have written it

and

"certainty no one else would stop they downed it and declared the bug as soon as they found out"

Id love to see you in that situation and just stop i really would

i kinda get the idea that you're something like a cheerleader for them. Sounds like you're placing them on a pedestal. So when you do that, you bring your bias into question and into topic and so i commented on it.

Master Wong wrote:

when your trying to make a point dont jump to assumptions and add your own content to someone else posts only comment on whats there

you should really take your own advice...

explain to me two things in enough clarity and il drop my case

how is it exploited when they dont know how to make it happen? (based on the fact to exploit you need to know how to use it)

be honest now would you have stopped if put in the same situation?

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:27 am

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

explain to me two things in enough clarity and il drop my case

how is it exploited when they dont know how to make it happen? (based on the fact to exploit you need to know how to use it)

be honest now would you have stopped if put in the same situation?

1. They exploited the bug because they knew something was wrong and they knowingly continued the fight.The bug made the fight noticeably easier, and they didn't alert Blizzard, they kept on doing whatever they were doing before causing the bug to manifest several times during the fight. That's exploiting a fault mechanic, and we're all big boys so we know that's exploiting a faulty mechanic. They admitted that they used this bug to their advantage.

Also its not a "fact" that in order to exploit something you have to know exactly what you're doing. That is your opinion of the word. If you go to dictionary.com and look up the definition it doesn't add what you placed in parenthesis. Now you may be using the word "fact" incorrectly like you did with "certainty" and "sure" cause if you look up those definitions they don't say to believe something but still have doubts so you don't believe it fully...in fact they say very much the opposite, but i digress....

2. What i would do is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Im not arguing this based on what i or other people would do or what my moral code is, im arguing this based on facts. Rules were broken, knowingly broken, punishment is in order.

Now i didn't quote the red text because it just sounds like you're tripping over your words "oh when i said certainty i didn't mean what certainty actually means, i meant whablahblahblahblah...they did do something wrong but not really wrong cause i would've done the same thinblahblahblah" Im not really sure where you're getting that the bug only occurred once during the fight either because the logs on mmochamp show multiple uses of bombs meaning that the opportunity for the bug to occur was more than once....

are we done here?

[SD]Master_Wong · **Posted:** Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:44 pm

XemnasXD wrote:

[SD]Master_Wong wrote:

explain to me two things in enough clarity and il drop my case

how is it exploited when they dont know how to make it happen? (based on the fact to exploit you need to know how to use it)

be honest now would you have stopped if put in the same situation?

1. They exploited the bug because they knew something was wrong and they knowingly continued the fight.The bug made the fight noticeably easier, and they didn't alert Blizzard, they kept on doing whatever they were doing before causing the bug to manifest several times during the fight. That's exploiting a fault mechanic, and we're all big boys so we know that's exploiting a faulty mechanic. They admitted that they used this bug to their advantage.

Also its not a "fact" that in order to exploit something you have to know exactly what you're doing. That is your opinion of the word. If you go to dictionary.com and look up the definition it doesn't add what you placed in parenthesis. Now you may be using the word "fact" incorrectly like you did with "certainty" and "sure" cause if you look up those definitions they don't say to believe something but still have doubts so you don't believe it fully...in fact they say very much the opposite, but i digress....

2. What i would do is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Im not arguing this based on what i or other people would do or what my moral code is, im arguing this based on facts. Rules were broken, knowingly broken, punishment is in order.

Now i didn't quote the red text because it just sounds like you're tripping over your words "oh when i said certainty i didn't mean what certainty actually means, i meant whablahblahblahblah...they did do something wrong but not really wrong cause i would've done the same thinblahblahblah" Im not really sure where you're getting that the bug only occurred once during the fight either because the logs on mmochamp show multiple uses of bombs meaning that the opportunity for the bug to occur was more than once....

are we done here?

now only ever going to say this once and its a first to my memory but im partly wrong mainly as iv lost my point and got tied up trying to argue it

but ensidia can do lich king 25 without a bug and thus proves atleast 1 of my points is they would have done it with or without the bug in place
http://www.ensidia.com/article/271/lich ... down-again

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