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 Post subject: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:23 pm 
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When we first announced our design goals for class talent trees back at BlizzCon 2009, one of our major stated focuses was to remove some of the boring and "mandatory" passive talents. We mentioned that we wanted talent choices to feel more flavorful and fun, yet more meaningful at the same time. Recently, we had our fansites release information on work-in-progress talent tree previews for druids, priests, shaman, and rogues. From those previews and via alpha test feedback, a primary response we heard was that these trees didn’t incorporate the original design goals discussed at BlizzCon. This response echoes something we have been feeling internally for some time, namely that the talent tree system has not aged well since we first increased the level cap beyond level 60. In an upcoming beta build, we will unveil bold overhauls of all 30 talent trees.

Talent Tree Vision

One of the basic tenets of Blizzard game design is that of “concentrated coolness.” We’d rather have a simpler design with a lot of depth, than a complicated but shallow design. The goal for Cataclysm remains to remove a lot of the passive (or lame) talents, but we don’t think that’s possible with the current tree size. To resolve this, we're reducing each tree to 31-point talents. With this reduction in tree size we need to make sure they're being purchased along a similar leveling curve, and therefore will also be reducing the number of total talent points and the speed at which they're awarded during the leveling process.

As a result, we can keep the unique talents in each tree, particularly those which provide new spells, abilities or mechanics. We’ll still have room for extra flavorful talents and room for player customization, but we can trim a great deal of fat from each tree. The idea isn’t to give players fewer choices, but to make those choices feel more meaningful. Your rotations won’t change and you won’t lose any cool talents. What will change are all of the filler talents you had to pick up to get to the next fun talent, as well as most talents that required 5 of your hard-earned points.

We are also taking a hard look at many of the mandatory PvP talents, such as spell pushback or mechanic duration reductions. While there will always be PvP vs. PvE builds, we’d like for the difference to be less extreme, so that players don’t feel like they necessarily need to spend their second talent specialization on a PvP build.

The Rise of Specialization

We want to focus the talent trees towards your chosen style of gameplay right away. That first point you spend in a tree should be very meaningful. If you choose Enhancement, we want you to feel like an Enhancement shaman right away, not thirty talent points later. When talent trees are unlocked at level 10, you will be asked to choose your specialization (e.g. whether you want to be an Arms, Fury or Protection warrior) before spending that first point. Making this choice comes with certain benefits, including whatever passive bonuses you need to be effective in that role, and a signature ability that used to be buried deeper in the talent trees. These abilities and bonuses are only available by specializing in a specific tree. Each tree awards its own unique active ability and passives when chosen. The passive bonuses range from flat percentage increases, like a 20% increase to Fire damage for Fire mages or spell range increases for casters, to more interesting passives such as the passive rage regeneration of the former Anger Management talent for Arms warriors, Dual-Wield Specialization for Fury warriors and Combat rogues, or the ability to dual-wield itself for Enhancement shaman.

The initial talent tree selection unlocks active abilities that are core to the chosen role. Our goal is to choose abilities that let the specializations come into their own much earlier than was possible when a specialization-defining talent had to be buried deep enough that other talent trees couldn’t access them. For example, having Lava Lash and Dual-Wield right away lets an Enhancement shaman feel like an Enhancement shaman. Other role-defining examples of abilities players can now get for free at level 10 include Mortal Strike, Bloodthirst, Shield Slam, Mutilate, Shadow Step, Thunderstorm, Earth Shield, Water Elemental, and Penance.

Getting Down to the Grit

Talent trees will have around 20 unique talents instead of today's (roughly) 30 talents, and aesthetically will look a bit more like the original World of Warcraft talent trees. The 31-point talents will generally be the same as the 51-point talents we already had planned for Cataclysm. A lot of the boring or extremely specialized talents have been removed, but we don't want to remove anything that’s going to affect spell/ability rotations. We want to keep overall damage, healing, and survivability roughly the same while providing a lot of the passive bonuses for free based on your specialization choice.

While leveling, you will get 1 talent point about every 2 levels (41 points total at level 85). Our goal is to alternate between gaining a new class spell or ability and gaining a talent point with each level. As another significant change, you will not be able to put points into a different talent tree until you have dedicated 31 talent points to your primary specialization. While leveling, this will be possible at 70. Picking a talent specialization should feel important. To that end, we want to make sure new players understand the significance of reaching the bottom of their specialization tree before gaining the option of spending points in the other trees. We intend to make sure dual-specialization and re-talenting function exactly as they do today so players do not feel locked into their specialization choice.

A True Mastery

The original passive Mastery bonuses players were to receive according to how they spent points in each tree are being replaced by the automatic passive bonuses earned when a tree specialization is chosen. These passives are flat percentages and we no longer intend for them to scale with the number of talent points spent. The Mastery bonus that was unique to each tree will now be derived from the Mastery stat, found on high-level items, and Mastery will be a passive skill learned from class trainers around level 75. In most cases, the Mastery stats will be the same as the tree-unique bonuses we announced earlier this year. These stats can be improved by stacking Mastery Rating found on high-level items.

To Recap

When players reach level 10, they are presented with basic information on the three specializations within their class and are asked to choose one. Then they spend their talent point. The other trees darken and are unavailable until 31 points are spent in the chosen tree. The character is awarded an active ability, and one or more passive bonuses unique to the tree they've chosen. As they gain levels, they'll alternate between receiving a talent point and gaining new skills. They'll have a 31-point tree to work down, with each talent being more integral and exciting than they have been in the past. Once they spend their 31'st point in the final talent (at level 70), the other trees open up and become available to allocate points into from then on. As characters move into the level 78+ areas in Cataclysm, they'll begin seeing items with a new stat, Mastery. Once they learn the Mastery skill from their class trainer they'll receive bonuses from the stat based on the tree they've specialized in.

We understand that these are significant changes and we still have details to solidify. We feel, however, that these changes better fulfill our original class design goals for Cataclysm, and we're confident that they will make for a better gameplay experience. Your constructive feedback is welcomed and appreciated.



Gasp

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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Real ID is generating too much aggro.
Real ID casts Misdirection on Talent Revamp.


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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:17 pm 
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Prophet Izaach wrote:
Real ID is generating too much aggro.
Real ID casts Misdirection on Talent Revamp.

lol, so true.

I like these changes but it will be interesting to see how they pan out, especially as we'll be 5 levels higher, but with 30 less talent points.

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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:45 pm 
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wow this looks amazing. Sometimes I think about playing wow again and just playing it really casual. Leveling can be pretty fun, as can a normal dungeon. But it's hard to play a game like wow casually if you always strive to be a top player.

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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:52 pm 
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Prophet Izaach wrote:
Real ID is generating too much aggro.
Real ID casts Misdirection on Talent Revamp.


lol my thoughts exactly.

if they pull this off i can see it turning out really well, can't wait to see the new trees.

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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:32 pm 
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This really puts the fun back into leveling, together with the already planned changes coming with Cataclysm. I can't wait to see the first talent trees pop up.

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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:50 am 
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Sounds alright so far. I like that they're getting rid of some of the "filler" talents.

I still don't understand the whole Mastery thing yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:01 am 
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From what I get:

Each spec had 1 unique special flavoured mastery. For mages it was flashburn for fire, mana adept for arcane and something else for frost.

That stat will be increased by acquiring mastery on gear.


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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:13 pm 
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takolin wrote:
From what I get:

Each spec had 1 unique special flavoured mastery. For mages it was flashburn for fire, mana adept for arcane and something else for frost.

That stat will be increased by acquiring mastery on gear.


See I'm not sure what this special flavored(I love the way you spelled flavoured) mastery would be. I'm not sure what you mean by special flavored mastery.

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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:32 pm 
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.curve wrote:
takolin wrote:
From what I get:

Each spec had 1 unique special flavoured mastery. For mages it was flashburn for fire, mana adept for arcane and something else for frost.

That stat will be increased by acquiring mastery on gear.


See I'm not sure what this special flavored(I love the way you spelled flavoured) mastery would be. I'm not sure what you mean by special flavored mastery.



As a mage:
You had 2 boring masteries and 1 unique:

arcane: spell damage, spell haste + mana adept
Fire: spell damage, critical spell chance + flashburn
Frost: spell damage, critic spell damage + deathfrost

Ok as a paladin it's less funky, but you check it on mmo.champ's cat pages and I assume on wowhead cataclysm pages as well


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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:16 pm 
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Here's my take:

All the passive talents that give percent bonuses on, for example, damage, will be aggregated on three masteries (most are basically passives) per tree.

For example, Retadins' Sanctity of Battle talent increases crit strike chance as well as the damage of Exorcism (holy) and Crusader strike (melee). When this talent (and many others) is removed by the new system, it's replaced by three masteries:

1. Melee Damage: Increases melee damage.
2. Melee Critical: Increases melee critical strike chance.
3. Holy Damage: Increases holy damage.

Sanctity of Battle's bonus for crit strike chance goes into the second mastery, and Exorcism's and Crusader Strike's damage increase into the third and first mastery respectively. Other talents, such as Sanctified Retribution, which increases the (holy) damage of Ret Aura will be removed and replaced by the third mastery. The talent Conviction, which increases crit strike chance will be removed and replaced by the first mastery. And so on and so forth.

The percent bonus of these masteries, such as the increased melee strike chance of the second one, is increased by the Mastery stat from gear. In the (old) talent system that we have, if you want to increase your crit strike chance, you add in more talent points into Conviction. On the new system, you add in more Mastery stats instead. But, like the old system, there's a cap on the passive bonuses. You can't just stack Mastery stats expecting to raise melee crit strike chance to 100%. According to MMO-Champion, the max percent from the second mastery is 8.01%, each Mastery stat giving 0.155% increase. So the Mastery stat cap is 51. Beyond that, there is no benefit. These 51 Mastery points from your gear that raises crit strike chance is the same as the 5 talent points you put into Conviction to raise the same stat to 5%. The only difference is that these 51 Mastery points also increase other stats (first and third masteries).

It should be noted that not all these masteries of all classes are flat-out percent increases in damage, healing, or mitigation. For example, hunters have a mastery that allows all their abilities to deal Elemental damage. Nonetheless, I still expect these to scale with the Mastery stat.

Also note, most of the talents I stated are used as examples. I don't know if Conviction, Sanctified Retribution, and Sanctity of Battle will be removed, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:09 pm 
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THat was how it works in beta now, not under the new system.

Under the new system, to my understanding, you'll recieve a token ability of that spec, so in ret's case Divine Storm. You'll also get passive stat increases roughly equal to what you would've gotten from taking all those mundane stat increasing talents in the talent tree regardless. The unique third mastery bonus is trainable at Lv75; and then THAT scales off mastery.

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 Post subject: Re: Major talent revamp
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:13 am 
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Prophet Izaach wrote:
Here's my take:



That actually cleared a lot up. Thank you kind sir.

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