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 Post subject: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:19 am 
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I post it on behalf of a friend:

"Hi guys, I was looking for some help about Wizard: the problem is that I die a lot, really a lot.
I am now lvl 24 and I am grinding at Lions. The passive one are ok, and now even giants without berserk I survive (i didn't up to lvl 22/23). The actives I die. Nothing to do. As 2 of them come by, I got overwhelmed.
So... I one-shot the mobs, but I don't get much exp because they are low level, and I sometimes die anyway!!!

As someone already suggested me, I went Wizard/Cleric, so that I can use Light Armor to have better protection and Cleric skills for resistance.

The problem is that my GuildMaster told to put some skills which are in contrast one with the other!!!
The skills are:
- Blessed recovery. this requires Faith, that only works if you use a Robe.
- Holy Word. this requires Glory, that only works if you use Light Armor.

In any case I need to have a Rod (I am bringing one to buff and then switch back to Staff).

How can I fight better, without having to die a lot of times?
Which Cleric skills should I use to increase resistance, and wich type of equipment?"


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:54 am 
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Cleric will get good at 40, you will have RD (Recovery Division) and you can bless at lvl 24 for giants, and you will be able to cast HC (Healing Cycle) in case of emergeny, at lvl 30


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:08 pm 
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Sorry, I didn't understand the message.
The second one is Healing Cycle, from Recovery class, and OK.
The first one what is? And what you mean by "you can bless at lvl 24 for giants"?


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:26 pm 
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Elfina wrote:
I post it on behalf of a friend:

"Hi guys, I was looking for some help about Wizard: the problem is that I die a lot, really a lot.
I am now lvl 24 and I am grinding at Lions. The passive one are ok, and now even giants without berserk I survive (i didn't up to lvl 22/23). The actives I die. Nothing to do. As 2 of them come by, I got overwhelmed.
So... I one-shot the mobs, but I don't get much exp because they are low level, and I sometimes die anyway!!!

If you use life control, you should be able to one shot crabs with a lvl 24 staff. Learn to run away when you see 2 monsters coming for you and attack from a distance. You are a wizard, not a warrior.
Quote:
The problem is that my GuildMaster told to put some skills which are in contrast one with the other!!!
The skills are:
- Blessed recovery. this requires Faith, that only works if you use a Robe.
- Holy Word. this requires Glory, that only works if you use Light Armor.

This is ok, you don't have to be wearing robe to use skills under Faith. Faith is just a prerequisite to getting those skills.
Quote:
How can I fight better, without having to die a lot of times?

Do not fight giants unless you have bless and zerk.
Be careful with champions; use fear or bind.
Never attack monsters standing right next to you; always stand as far away as you can.

Quote:
Which Cleric skills should I use to increase resistance, and wich type of equipment?"

Bless helps but it only lasts for a few seconds. You can survive better with light armor. The best thing to do is to party with a warrior and only attack monsters the warrior is attacking.

Quote:
The first one what is? And what you mean by "you can bless at lvl 24 for giants"?

Bless is a lvl 24 cleric skill. It increases your phy/mag def. You cast it, switch to your wizard staff and kill a giant with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Not sure about Life Control... it goes in the opposite direction of what I'm looking for.
My problem is that I can easily kill 1 mob, but sometimes you just can't escape and you get attacked by 2 or more. And my low HP brings me to death.
I attack from distance and use Light Armor as suggested, but I was told that wizard levels up super-fast, and I don't have this opinion up to now...

About Faith, I understood, but in this case you don't get the HP healing?


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:47 pm 
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Elfina wrote:
Not sure about Life Control... it goes in the opposite direction of what I'm looking for.
My problem is that I can easily kill 1 mob, but sometimes you just can't escape and you get attacked by 2 or more. And my low HP brings me to death.
I attack from distance and use Light Armor as suggested, but I was told that wizard levels up super-fast, and I don't have this opinion up to now...

About Faith, I understood, but in this case you don't get the HP healing?


I thought you were posting for a friend? anyway, doesn't matter.

Wiz do level fast, with the right location and spawn. I don't play my low level wiz often, but my bard is similar, cept I do even LESS damage than a wiz. So, find passive mobs that don't do physical damage, or ones that walk slowly and that you can hit from a distance.

Ice bolt - Fire bolt, mobs should be dead before they get to you. If not the cooldown is done on ice bolt and you can hit them again. In a pinch use the charged wind to knock them back, or AOE snow - not suggested. Anything to slow them down or kill before they hit you.

I can see wiz would be tough at low levels. in a pinch switch to cleric rod and shield, use healing cycle or healing division as a last resort - careful, that skill aggros if I recall. Once you hit 40 and get recovery division, it will become easier.

Life Control is a must, imho. With it you can and should one-shot mobs your level or 1-2 levels higher. On my lvl 35 wiz I can one-shot 37/38 huns. You just need to find a place that mobs won't swarm you.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:48 pm 
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Elfina wrote:
Not sure about Life Control... it goes in the opposite direction of what I'm looking for.
My problem is that I can easily kill 1 mob, but sometimes you just can't escape and you get attacked by 2 or more. And my low HP brings me to death.
I attack from distance and use Light Armor as suggested, but I was told that wizard levels up super-fast, and I don't have this opinion up to now...

You need to learn how to position yourself so that you do not get attacked by 2 or more aggro monsters. You can always back up and pick them off one by one. If you still can't avoid having 2+ monsters attacking you, then run away.

Also, at your level you only want to use the first book of fire and ice nukes. If you see a group of mobs close together you might want to use the second book earth nuke but be prepared to run or finish off the monsters that don't die.

Do not use lightning nukes unless you are a pro or suicidal because it doesn't do very much damage and aggros nearby monsters. Do not use the first earth nuke because it brings you close to the monster.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:38 pm 
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_Equal_ wrote:
I thought you were posting for a friend? anyway, doesn't matter.


Indeed... I am a bower, and my lazy friend didn't want to wait the 24h after registration :)


_Equal_ wrote:
Wiz do level fast, with the right location and spawn. I don't play my low level wiz often, but my bard is similar, cept I do even LESS damage than a wiz. So, find passive mobs that don't do physical damage, or ones that walk slowly and that you can hit from a distance.

Ice bolt - Fire bolt, mobs should be dead before they get to you. If not the cooldown is done on ice bolt and you can hit them again. In a pinch use the charged wind to knock them back, or AOE snow - not suggested. Anything to slow them down or kill before they hit you.

I can see wiz would be tough at low levels. in a pinch switch to cleric rod and shield, use healing cycle or healing division as a last resort - careful, that skill aggros if I recall. Once you hit 40 and get recovery division, it will become easier.

Life Control is a must, imho. With it you can and should one-shot mobs your level or 1-2 levels higher. On my lvl 35 wiz I can one-shot 37/38 huns. You just need to find a place that mobs won't swarm you.


Ok... I underestimated the benefits of Charged Wind... going to decide if adding it or not.
:)


Chickenfeather thanks to you too.


PS: my curiosity... what is Invisibility useful for... since you can not move???


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:53 pm 
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Quote:
Ok... I underestimated the benefits of Charged Wind... going to decide if adding it or not.


If you do add it, I'd probably leave it at level 1. Its low damage anyway, and saves SP if you don't level it. I mainly use it only to knock mobs back, saves you sometimes. But as chickenfeather states, you need to use it with extreme caution as it can aggro nearby mobs :)

Invisibility I would assume is used mainly in pvp, ctf or job wars. I believe it might get you past some mobs while running to grinding point, but I don't think you can cast it while being attacked.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Quote:
Ok... I underestimated the benefits of Charged Wind... going to decide if adding it or not.


If you do add it, I'd probably leave it at level 1. Its low damage anyway, and saves SP if you don't level it. I mainly use it only to knock mobs back, saves you sometimes. But as chickenfeather states, you need to use it with extreme caution as it can aggro nearby mobs :)

Very good hint !!!![/quote]


_Equal_ wrote:
Invisibility I would assume is used mainly in pvp, ctf or job wars. I believe it might get you past some mobs while running to grinding point, but I don't think you can cast it while being attacked.

But it says that you stop being invisible if you move, that's the strange point...

Anyway...
Will Glory and Favor Armor work if I have Light Armor and Staff (not rod)?


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Quote:
But it says that you stop being invisible if you move, that's the strange point...

Anyway...
Will Glory and Favor Armor work if I have Light Armor and Staff (not rod)?


Hmmm? I can't remember, I've been playing my rogue, he can run in stealth, 99% sure wiz can move in invisible.

As for the cleric passives, no, they are not "active" until you switch to cleric rod. but light armor I would assume would help. A lot of mobs at lower levels are physical, not too many magical until nachals or niya mages unless you go to DW for earth magicians.

I went with robe very early on for the speed, and it's helpful, but honestly there were many many times I wished I would have stayed in light armor.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:22 pm 
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_Equal_ wrote:
Quote:
Will Glory and Favor Armor work if I have Light Armor and Staff (not rod)?

As for the cleric passives, no, they are not "active" until you switch to cleric rod. but light armor I would assume would help.


Ok, ATM I go Light Armor anyway, but straight to the point I won't waste SPs on those skills then
;)


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:37 pm 
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-Upgrade your gear, accessory, weapons.
-Like others said, robes are only needed if you want the bonus Faith gives but Charity (the other IIRC has a better bonus with Light Armor so stick with that)
-Also like others said at level 24 you get bless spell. It increases your defense by a huge amount for 45 seconds. It's towards the bottom of your skill list.

As for grinding
-Go to mobs you can 1shot, that should be higher than those lions with a 24 staff.
-While grinding keep an eye on your surroundings and on your mini map. Red dots are enemies so never let too many get behind you.
-Try to single out champs/giants before engaging them so you wont get teamed up by regular monsters while fighting one of them.

Some basic tips, if you have any other questions feel free to ask here or pm me.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:14 pm 
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Soloing with a wiz (any pure int) is always going to suck but Cleric helps.

Learn to stay on the outskirts of the mobs and just pick off the singles.

I love the light armor, glad I switched. Robe just made me too easy to kill. As a full int you need to blue your gear as much as possible. Add STR/HP/Dodging anytime you can on all your gear.

Also add your cleric rod and heal skills in a place easy to click/tap so you can switch to rod, heal, switch to staff quickly. I can switch back and forth in the middle of killing if it looks like I am going to die. It takes some getting used to but really saves the day sometimes.

And run run run lol nothing wrong with deciding you cant kill it and running away.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:27 am 
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If you keep dieing, go to chakjis, they are non aggro mobs (lvl 19s, Chakji Warriors) and they dont have giants or champs....
EDIT: u can move in invisibilty, just if you attack, or get attacked, its gone...


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Tia wrote:
If you keep dieing, go to chakjis, they are non aggro mobs (lvl 19s, Chakji Warriors) and they dont have giants or champs....
EDIT: u can move in invisibilty, just if you attack, or get attacked, its gone...


Here is me (Elfina) answering... Chakji Workers are not mixed with Chakjis only at Ferries Jangan side... and it's always crowded with goldbots, so even if it's a bit more risky, I used to go on other areas where is full of Workers but, still, you can meet a Chakji (normal, champion, giant).
Gotta pay attention but your killing rate is definitely higher.


As for my friend, the idea of adding blues is good... as soon as he will stop buying standard stuff from the NPC...
:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:15 pm 
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Keeps on dieing... the Healing Cycle only lasts 16 seconds and he has no barrier or whatsoever.
It farms fine, even mobs of the same level... but as there are 2 of them, or a Party mob, it's over. Often doesn't even have the time to run away.

Anyway... a silly question but is the level of the rod important? We don't hink so since it's only used to activate Holy Word or Healing...


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:46 pm 
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Well when you use a heal it matters, not sure for healing cycle. I'd always keep an up to date lvl rod though (just npc of the degree your in untill you find a higher lvl rod as drop or something).

The point is you cast healing cycle when you think you will run into multiple mobs, or if you want every 16 secs lol. Did you upgrade gear yet?

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:41 pm 
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I personally do not understand why she needs to spend gold on a rod if it's only to cast a buff that is not dependent on how good or "powerful" the rod is.

Anyway, now at lvl 31 she has a lvl 29+3 staff and a SOS chest lvl 29+2
The rest is quite common protections.


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:57 pm 
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Elfina wrote:
I personally do not understand why she needs to spend gold on a rod if it's only to cast a buff that is not dependent on how good or "powerful" the rod is.

Anyway, now at lvl 31 she has a lvl 29+3 staff and a SOS chest lvl 29+2
The rest is quite common protections.


So she has atleast full 4d gear (gear and accessory)? Maybe even higher tiers of them? And like I said, with heals it does matter. I'm just not sure if it takes the cleric rods mag power or staffs when using healing cycle (or that it has that stat at all). When you look at some skills you will see weapon magical reflect xxx%, so the amount it heals is multiplied by the magical dmg on your rod.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:59 pm 
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XMoshe wrote:
So she has atleast full 4d gear (gear and accessory)? Maybe even higher tiers of them? And like I said, with heals it does matter. I'm just not sure if it takes the cleric rods mag power or staffs when using healing cycle (or that it has that stat at all). When you look at some skills you will see weapon magical reflect xxx%, so the amount it heals is multiplied by the magical dmg on your rod.


Last line is a good hint we didn't consider, gotta check.
As for the gear, the highest she could find at NPC and stalls.
Since she can't fight her lvl mobs without dying, she fights like 4 levels below, and doesn't drop interesting stuff for her.
Maybe she should find a good party to go with (not easy either).


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:16 pm 
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They mobs shouldn't really be even hitting you. Kill them before they hit you.

You can just play it safe and hit them 1 at a time with ice and fire bolt. Which is what you probably should do in most cases, but you can also use the earth or ice AOE nukes to pick of 2-3 of them at a time. Just make sure you have firebolt ready to finish off any who didn't die with just one hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:29 pm 
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Something is odd here, does he have a large gap or something, so that the skills are much lower? Even a wiz with a 4 gap shouldn't die on same level mobs - much.

You do have to pick them off one by one, ice bolt, fire bolt should do it even with life control/turnover off. If you get a champ, hit them with charged wind, it should knockback, then ice bolt again, and maybe snow wind AOE if there are no other mobs around. The objective is always to kill the mobs before they even touch you.

Fire blow - whatever level you get that at - is handy as well, 3 hits or more, but another mob walking by into the path of the fire will aggro of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:32 pm 
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Tasdik wrote:
They mobs shouldn't really be even hitting you. Kill them before they hit you.

You can just play it safe and hit them 1 at a time with ice and fire bolt. Which is what you probably should do in most cases, but you can also use the earth or ice AOE nukes to pick of 2-3 of them at a time. Just make sure you have firebolt ready to finish off any who didn't die with just one hit.


Yeah at 31 with a 29+3 staff you should be 1shotting lvl 30 mobs atleast. That is if your skills are somewhat farmed and not totally behind. Try Chinese side perhaps?

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:15 pm 
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@Tasdik, @_Equal_, @XMoshe: I agree with you... the problem is that in theory everything is right, in practice it's not so easy.
Maybe, as someone already pointed out somewhere on this forum, CHI chars are standalone, while EU chars are conceived to grind in group. I am only used to chinese chars, but yesterday I tried to play with this char and I have to totally quote what my friend was saying.
Now it has: lvl 32+1 staff bought in stall, SOS earrings D4, SOS ring D4, SOS chest D4, all other items with blues (STR and/or INT). So the build is fine.
And, by the way, the skills he activated are at lvl 30, both Wizard and Cleric, and she has 8k spare SP, so even if she doeasn't have ALL the skills, the ones she selected are at lvl 30 (keeping gap 2).
Ice spirit, Ice bolt, Fire spirit, Fire bolt, Fire Blow, Holy Word, Bless spell (rarely used) and Charged Wind lvl 1.
Can kill mobs of his level (fire bolt + ice bolt, in some cases just one-shot with fire).
I went alone to EvilSoldier and I eventually got overwhelmed. Charged wind is to be used only in special conditions, or you will have even more mobs on you.
Fire blow is great, but it lasts 7 seconds and some party mobs do kill you in the meantime. Better hit, run, hit again, run again etc... but this is not always possible.
I honestly enjoyed the char and his magic skills, but I got really annoyed by the times you die just in a moment, without having the time to react.
Then I went exping with a mixed party (bard, 2 wizards, and maybe a cleric), and everything was great. I only died once in 3 hours, got ressed and kept killin. Fast exp, and with the buffs and the help for killing I could handle even 2 Party mobs at a time.
In the evening, my friend was saying that it is not that easy to find a party...

A wizard level 20/21, who came in the party just for 30 minutes, died several times, but seemed to handle the fight quite well (he said he is FF). And the other wizard, lvl 30, seemed to be "better" then my friend's char. Dunno.

Then I suggested the GunPowder Quest, so she is exping with Gunpowders and Meek Ghosts, and it just goes great.
Again, China looks safer if you wanna grind alone (and, honestly, I also know the zones where you can farm well without being overwhelmed).
But in some cases even in some "safe areas" in china (Devil Horses) she could die if 2 champions or a giant arrived.

Way too annoying for me
:nowant:

EDIT: even in China I never raised a nuker in China, so maybe there are similar problems, but from the experiences of friends and guild-mates I never had such a drastic feedback...


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:29 pm 
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You can cancel fire blow by using another skill, if the mob dies quickly. Pretty sure it's doable.

If I'm reading this right the char doesn't have life control at all?

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:41 pm 
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Good question: what is Life Control? which skill line?

PS: to avoid being negative, I must say that IF the wizard finds the right spot to grind is amazing, can stay 4 hours out without the need of going back in town. I appreciated this...


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Elfina wrote:
Good question: what is Life Control? which skill line?

PS: to avoid being negative, I must say that IF the wizard finds the right spot to grind is amazing, can stay 4 hours out without the need of going back in town. I appreciated this...


Second line, I think it's Force mental or something. Intelligence too for more MP.

Edit: wiz is THE most powerful character in the game in terms of dealing consistently high damage - only one more powerful is a cleric offering as far as I know, and that's a long cooldown. That is why the negatives: low hp, tough to survive, a challenge to play.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:50 pm 
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_Equal_ wrote:
Life Control:
Second line, I think it's Force mental or something. Intelligence too for more MP.


Oh yes, sorry, we already discussed about it. This skill seems great, but ATM it goes in the opposite direction of what she needs: it increases INT (or MP) by decreasing HP "maximum HP decreases by 50%". And the main problem here is that a mob hitting you more than 2 times means sure death. Take 50% HP off, it means you die with 2 hits, i.e., any champion.

She didn't try it, but it doesn't seem a good skill for the crowded fights and giants (which are the main problem, if not the only).

Why you don't like much the Cleric?


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 Post subject: Re: Wizard, subclass Cleric. I have some doubts...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:18 pm 
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Posts: 1771
Location: Completely in flux
Elfina wrote:
_Equal_ wrote:
Life Control:
Second line, I think it's Force mental or something. Intelligence too for more MP.


Oh yes, sorry, we already discussed about it. This skill seems great, but ATM it goes in the opposite direction of what she needs: it increases INT (or MP) by decreasing HP "maximum HP decreases by 50%". And the main problem here is that a mob hitting you more than 2 times means sure death. Take 50% HP off, it means you die with 2 hits, i.e., any champion.

She didn't try it, but it doesn't seem a good skill for the crowded fights and giants (which are the main problem, if not the only).

Why you don't like much the Cleric?


well, if you don't use Life Control, then it's more likely that you will NOT kill a mob in one shot and you will get hit, possibly twice. If you get in a crowd you still want to kill as many as possible, like with earth shock or snow wind, both AOE. You can always quickly right-click the skill by the name to remove it.

I don't know of many wizards who don't use Life Control. Only one or two, and they suffer because of it. That's the point of the wiz: it's ALL OUT DAMAGE. You sacrifice HP to deal more damage and kill the mob before it even touches you. Heck, even a STR rogue build can die from several hits if it doesn't have xbow extreme or dagger desperate on, from the mob getting to you before the rogue kills it.

If you're not doing as much damage as possible, you're not being a wizard, but trying to be a "tank", a warrior class. You won't have the HP for it. Look around the forum, a common joke for a build recommendation is a "pure str wizard". Why? Because their damage suffers and they cannot kill anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_%28 ... r_class%29

I like cleric, but it's not an offensive build. My bard is sub cleric and the buffs are very handy. When I run into a giant, I have two options.

- switch to cleric rod and shield, buff phys/mag defense, normal attack. I don't have any cleric attacks like trial cross or offering, saves SP.
- switch to cleric, bless, recovery division, healing orbit, switch to bard, zerk, kill giant.

Offering also takes like 95% of your HP when it goes off, so has to be used very carefully in conjunction with healing cycle, recovery division, or a potion.

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