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 Post subject: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:34 am 
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BUILD : be full str (hybrid is useless because you will wear garments for higher MP regeneration and for better magical defense).

WEAPONS :
Spoiler!
CLOTHES:
Spoiler!

WIZARD SKILLS : (Lets group them in : passives,defensives and debuffs)

*Passives skills:
Spoiler!
*Defensives skills:
Spoiler!
*Debbufs skills :
Spoiler!

All the presented wizard skills require around : 270k sp for lvl 90.
We can skip Detect and Sprawl Detect , we can directly take just AOE debuffs and use Charged Wind on lvl 1 only ; all these require: 190k sp for lvl 90

ROGUE SKILLS :

Rogue skills are nice described in these guides :
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64646&start=0
and
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=55184

PVE and PVP

For both, grinding and pvp, you can create your own style of fighting; here are some ideas:

PVE :
Spoiler!

PVP (including videos) :
Spoiler!

---
I'll update and review this guide with every new info I get about this build :wink:

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Last edited by _pepsicanul on Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:28 am 
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This is a new one. Never heard of this build before. Seems its a Rogue, with the defense buffs of a wiz. I think its better to get a different sub (unless you just want to save sp?).

I really cant say much, due to the fact that I've never seen how this build is played; even with those vids.

Edit: After looking around and watch a few videos, this build looks like it has a chance to rape. Seems that the fun starts at the higher levels when you get the second version of skills. Like that AoE Fear.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:13 am 
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Great you took time to write this guide.. but I think that building wizard/rogue would be really stupid :D If you are rogue EVERY other sub is better ;)

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:00 am 
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Sorry but subclass could be invested into something much better...

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:27 pm 
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So many ppl are rogue/bards ; during pvp they can only use moving march from bard mastery.But moving march can be replaced by speed scolls and pots.
Is rogue/wiz build better than rogue/bard in pvp? :P

I offer in my guide an alternative to common rogues builds. Many ppl might enjoy it now when they know that this build exists.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:07 am 
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pointless build, waste of a sub class, from what your wantin the rogue/wiz to be, a rogue/warlock would be alot better. i rlly hope no 1 is actually usin this build..


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:22 am 
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warfire6395 wrote:
pointless build, waste of a sub class, from what your wantin the rogue/wiz to be, a rogue/warlock would be alot better. i rlly hope no 1 is actually usin this build..

Every Euro class has it's advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on how you use the advantages to overcome the disadvantages.

OT: This is a very interesting build! I can see how the Wizard skills would benefit any build in combat and it's pretty neat. I don't think I'd have the time to farm another char now though. Anyway, nice guide! =)


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:04 am 
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_pepsicanul wrote:
So many ppl are rogue/bards ; during pvp they can only use moving march from bard mastery.But moving march can be replaced by speed scolls and pots.
Is rogue/wiz build better than rogue/bard in pvp? :P


Why would I use sub Wizard for PvP, when Cleric is much better?

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:52 pm 
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In pvp :

cleric-sub offers: in majority defensive skills + absolute damage and bind
wizard-sub offers: in majority debuffing skills + earth fence + teleport
clothes:
rogue/cleric : only light armour (extra def when holding cleric rod)
rogue/wiz : light armour and robes(extra speed,mp regeneration,mag def)

Choosing one build or another is a matter of taste and playing style and like Fug_Dup said, every build has its cons and pros.
Sometimes ppl fall in the trap of subestimating their opponent even from start.

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Last edited by _pepsicanul on Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:54 pm 
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Nitro wrote:
_pepsicanul wrote:
So many ppl are rogue/bards ; during pvp they can only use moving march from bard mastery.But moving march can be replaced by speed scolls and pots.
Is rogue/wiz build better than rogue/bard in pvp? :P


Why would I use sub Wizard for PvP, when Cleric is much better?


you shud know people dont make the builds just because they're "better" than the others.

I remember i asked the same question to sylhana when he made his rogue/wizard. He just replied he wanted to have fun while pvping by making an "unique" and different build, and he did have fun with it. I even used that char and i was just laughing and having a good time.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:32 pm 
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Amelie wrote:
Nitro wrote:
_pepsicanul wrote:
So many ppl are rogue/bards ; during pvp they can only use moving march from bard mastery.But moving march can be replaced by speed scolls and pots.
Is rogue/wiz build better than rogue/bard in pvp? :P


Why would I use sub Wizard for PvP, when Cleric is much better?


you shud know people dont make the builds just because they're "better" than the others.

I remember i asked the same question to sylhana when he made his rogue/wizard. He just replied he wanted to have fun while pvping by making an "unique" and different build, and he did have fun with it. I even used that char and i was just laughing and having a good time.


He started it.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:20 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
warfire6395 wrote:
pointless build, waste of a sub class, from what your wantin the rogue/wiz to be, a rogue/warlock would be alot better. i rlly hope no 1 is actually usin this build..


Every Euro class has it's advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on how you use the advantages to overcome the disadvantages.


trust me this build is actually pointless :banghead: , the skills you get from being a rogue wiz, are no where near the level of effectivness the skills from a rogue warlock are. The particular skills you are actually going to use from the wiz tree, do help, but some liek invisible and charged squall are really just duplicates of some of the rogue skills, (stealth and the xbow kb skill).
yes, this is a unique build, but also a waste of time, time you could be using to create a good character.


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:49 pm 
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A novel idea, but I sincerely believe is very flawed. Not only is rogue/wizard far from optimal, it is even inferior to a pure rogue build without a subclass. The sum of the whole is less than the sum of the parts and here is why: the wizard subclass augments the way you play the rogue to a significant extent, changing its movement, range, intensity and variety of skill so much so that the rogue will never again be played like the way it should be (ie stealthy) but rather more agile. The subclass actually retrains the player into playing a different kind of rogue, and it is precisely because of this that the wizard subclass will do more harm than good. Rogues will nary again be played as the rogues that you and I know.

Any other subclass other than the wizard would be preferable. Be a cleric and you can be a backup healer, not quite as good as a specialized cleric but you can still give support to your team; I mean God forbid that your team has no cleric, as you couldn't bear the burden of healing alone; still the adage "two heads are better than one" or in this case "one and a half cleric is better than one" still rings true. The same applies to bard and warlock, and I reiterate that "one and a half bard or warlock is better than one". We just can't get enough of that cleric/bard/warlock, the more the merrier I say. Warrior subclass is also a great alternative, probably even the best. It is really two characters for the price of one, you can't ask for a better subclass than warrior! Confuse your enemies by switching class mid battle, and switch again and again. Your allies will thank you for it! But then again I digress.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Interpol wrote:
A novel idea, but I sincerely believe is very flawed. Not only is rogue/wizard far from optimal, it is even inferior to a pure rogue build without a subclass. The sum of the whole is less than the sum of the parts and here is why: the wizard subclass augments the way you play the rogue to a significant extent, changing its movement, range, intensity and variety of skill so much so that the rogue will never again be played like the way it should be (ie stealthy) but rather more agile. The subclass actually retrains the player into playing a different kind of rogue, and it is precisely because of this that the wizard subclass will do more harm than good. Rogues will nary again be played as the rogues that you and I know.

Any other subclass other than the wizard would be preferable. Be a cleric and you can be a backup healer, not quite as good as a specialized cleric but you can still give support to your team; I mean God forbid that your team has no cleric, as you couldn't bear the burden of healing alone; still the adage "two heads are better than one" or in this case "one and a half cleric is better than one" still rings true. The same applies to bard and warlock, and I reiterate that "one and a half bard or warlock is better than one". We just can't get enough of that cleric/bard/warlock, the more the merrier I say. Warrior subclass is also a great alternative, probably even the best. It is really two characters for the price of one, you can't ask for a better subclass than warrior! Confuse your enemies by switching class mid battle, and switch again and again. Your allies will thank you for it! But then again I digress.

If the build is flawed so much, how is it a novel idea? This build does alter the effectiveness of rogue. However, you can use this build as if a pure rogue at any time. Having wizard as a subclass just adds to the versatility of a rogue. I do agree that a subclass is better used elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:31 am 
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:S it actually works well lol

scud+teleport?

many chinese str get 90 light because they want phantom... sure the 18% mag is nice... they get 12% at lv 30 -.- and could have 90 ice for better def

the entire thing with the party play... that only applies to mobs, in group pvp you dont really have enough people to afford someone just standing around playing a harp, if you are warlock sub and debuff, you could do same with aoe fear and kb... for healing, use mana drought and they cant pot either

though it might not be the best pvp build but it sounds fun, and rogue is strong enough to win without a sub so havinig a fun sub isnt going to hurt lol


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:12 pm 
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warfire6395 wrote:
trust me this build is actually pointless :banghead: , the skills you get from being a rogue wiz, are no where near the level of effectivness the skills from a rogue warlock are. The particular skills you are actually going to use from the wiz tree, do help, but some liek invisible and charged squall are really just duplicates of some of the rogue skills, (stealth and the xbow kb skill).
yes, this is a unique build, but also a waste of time, time you could be using to create a good character.

Some people don't want to create the best PvP build ever. They just want a fun character. I mean, with that reasoning, all Euro builds are pointless except Warrior/Cleric because that's arguably the most effective build at this moment. Again, I stand by my reasoning that this is not a pointless build. There are many Wizard skills that prove to be useful for any character whether it be STR or INT. (Teleport, invisible, Charged Wind, Fear, Dull, Combustion, just to name a few.)

A pointless sub would be one where the skills would be completely useless. For example, if Wizard were to have only Magical skills and a STR-based char chose Wizard as their sub then it would be pointless because no skills would work to their advantage.


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:51 am 
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I have personally tried this build out and it can work but it's pretty un-reliable becuz the status effects fail a lot. Even tho they have a pretty high probability, w/o disease status, u can't always rely ur statuses to hit. Plus they have fairly long cooldowns and cast times.

Can be strong when it works but dosent have the efficiency or reliability or a Rogue/Warlock

Nice guide tho

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:18 pm 
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You can't say 'Rogue Skills' and then direct us to another guide. That pretty much defeats the purpose of making your own. Especially since neither of them include dagger skills. Only one of them includes Xbow skills and the other one doesnt even mention what skills to take.

Not to mention that you're better off taking a subclass such as Bard or Cleric, because nobody really wants a rogue in their party and they certainly don't want a Pure STR Wizard.

I suppose it has some uses if you're willing to grind it out on your own but euro was made for partying...

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:33 pm 
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Just as info for you ofy1993 , int warlock build requires around 545k sp for lvl 90.

About the effectiveness of this build..its a must to show a lvl 90 rogue/wiz powning ppl in pvp so you can believe in it?

Lets try a mind exercise while watching the videos in pvp section of this guide: low lvl rogue/wiz can win in pvp vs ppl around his lvl ; the same things will happen when he is lvl 90: rogue/wiz can still win in pvp - he even will have a longer teleport and extra aoe wiz skills.
Lets get more into this and imagine a piece of pvp at high lvl with only few skills from the large variety that wiz build offers:

a)fear -> daggers -> win
b)fear failled ->teleport 20 metres away -> xbow ->knock back arrow -->etc .. maybe repeat a)-> win

About pve , if you are rejected by your friends' share parties, then be rogue/bard till high lvls . Take from bard mana regeneration skills and speed to help pt and you can leech as much xp/sp you want .All this if you enjoy kind a passive grind style.

"A different kind of rogue" is normal to have a large dose of criticism and I dont mind. All I cant tell is this : when this FUN build is in good hands will do just GREAT in pvp and it will make you unique among the overused common fighting styles . :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:51 am 
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Omg...another innovative build but i can accept new idea.

regarding that earth def thing,do i work if u switch to dagger/bow after buffing?

thanks


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:45 am 
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-yes , earth fence defense skill works even if you switch weapons ; it last 20 seconds and after 40 seconds you can use it again ; also, when you use it all ppl from your pt benefit from it.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:58 am 
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pvp is very different at higher lvls. and altho im only lvl72, pvp has changed dramatically from when i was a low lvl.

You'll have a lot of trouple against ppl who use pills or have holy word/spell on, ur pretty much left with combustion. A warrior could easily stop ur fear with sprint assault (and they could resist it with holy spell altogether), warlocks can sleep or stun u as ur using fear, any char could pill it off and apart from earth barrier, ur pretty much defenceless.

A good idea but when ur lvl90, i'd like to see u do much owning. This build has the potential to kill a few ppl but isn't really a huge threat to anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:05 pm 
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thx for guide (;

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:19 pm 
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If you've played as a rogue, you'd know that if you have good daggers, enemies rarely take more than 10 seconds to kill (ironwall ftl)

Fear, switch to daggers, tele to them and slash away

I think its just a rogue/warlock sp saver, but KB/fear seems like it has potential.


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:37 am 
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*IS SO TRYING THIS WIN GUIDE

for serious btw


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:47 pm 
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Nice idea, BTW hi pepsi ^^. Guess you don't remember me from Insomnia union anymore 2.5 years ago =p. (I was UnDutchable from fr33zinflame).


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:50 am 
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Been trying this build out on pheonix, so far its working really well.


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:56 am 
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Plz bring this to cap and post video progress plzzz :D


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:10 am 
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Ive just started this today level 20, skills 10 farming 550k sp seriously i think this could work and i don't care if its not super awesome I'm just sick of everyone being cleric / bard sub for every build
it something different and will be fun teleing around with xbow and daggers ive just got 2 questions dose fire trap explode on invisible targets. also should i hrbrid? 1int:9str or 1int:7str or pure str???

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] ROGUE / WIZARD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:56 am 
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Seems nice just it is almost same as Rogue/warlock, fear as stun, you can use xbow skills for knockback...

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