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 Post subject: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:15 pm 
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*This guide is originally posted on ecsro forum by myself (Raycrisis). I am more active on that forum so chances are the guide there will be more updated than here*

Hi all, I’m posting this guide to teach everyone what I think to be the right way to play European party. Many confuse the proper way to play their on class and complain another for not doing the right job. I am going through very detailed guide on how to do every thing right in the Euro party. I have been playing warrior majority of the time, but I’ve played other classes in a moderate but enough to understand what is going on in a party. I’ve play along side with my 2 brothers, so we all learn very well how to be in the perfect party. Forgive me for any grammatical error; I will consistently update this guide based on any comment or changes.

But before we start, this is a picture of a FAIL party
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This is a picture of a WIN party, you should get the sense of it
Image
Hence, you want your party like this
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Party member

Having two warriors is not the most insufficient way to play European party. Its not terrible, but its bad. The reason people think you need two warrior can give all the wiz buff so they survive, later on you will realize you have been wrong this whole time. So hence there here is the general formation.
1 Tank 1 Lure 1 Cleric 2 Bard 3 attackers

Here are some choices

1 Warrior 1 Rouge 1 Cleric 2 Bard 3 Wizard ( easiest to form)
Why this work: I bet somebody is complaining about not having two warrior right now, quit bitching and listen. The only reason Wiz die is because they don’t keep distance away from warrior and they attack monster on their own. If they keep distance and only attack monster that are sticking to warrior, they won’t die, I guarantee it (if the warrior isn’t brainless). Although there are some exception scenario such as Gp popping out of nowhere and such. Rouge are 10x better lurer than warrior, I will go through it in detail later

1 Warrior 1 Rouge 1 Cleric 2 Bard 2 Wizard 1 Warlock (best Euro party, just hard to find int warlock)
Why this work: You included every Euro class in your party, beautiful. warlock has many interesting skills and plays an awesome sound effect in the background. They have skills that reduce agro on wiz so many can continue sticking to warrior. Warlock’s debuff significantly make up a wizzard’s damage and make killing GP a whole lot faster.

1 Warrior 2 Str Cleric 1 Rouge 1 Bard 3 Wizzard OR 1 Warrior 1 Str Cleric 1 Rouge 2 bard 3 Wizzard
What's this?!: apparently this is a ksro setup. 2 Str Cleric will spread out so much aggro that Wizard will never get attacked. Warrior's job is to distribute buff on str clerics and keep mob away from Wizzs but no tanking. I've personally never try this, but i guarantee this also work

1 Warrior 1 Rouge 1 Cleric 1 Bard 4 Wizzard
Why this just might be better: When having a wiz that is waaaay higher level than other, their dps will out damage bard's buff. If you have abnormally high level wiz/bars in party, make them all go Wiz. However, the only bard has to be really active and make sure no 1 run out of mp. This party has faster exp rate than 2 bard in return for buff lost.

2 Warrior 1 Cleric 2 Bard 3 Wizzard (or 2 wiz 1 warlock)
Why you might want this: Sometime when party are going great, you would continue to go to monster up to 9 levels higher than you. The reason you would need another warrior is to keep the other warrior alive (both him pain quota and fence). This also apply to tanking Int based mob, it is difficult to tank those without buff. Tanking is a difficult job, and sometime It will take two to guarantee success. However, the luring will slow down significantly.
I don’t think there are other effective formations, but list them if I miss them.

How to play your class
The difficulty I ranked below doesn’t necessary mean its hard, but take some effort and decision making.

Warrior (difficulty: HARD) (an expansion of "how to tank" is here http://forum.sro.vn/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13460)
I have the most experience as a warrior. You are pulling a lot of agro on you, taking all the damage not only from the mob, but from your own buff on other players. The buffs are
ImageImageImageImage : Apply ALL of it to Cleric and rouge. They are the 1 who are really tanking the damage, not wiz. No one care if wiz dies, but everyone scream when the main cleric die because all the buffs are gone. Then the party go downhill. Sometimes when rouge and cleric are very strong on their own, then you can apply it to wiz.
ImageImage :These skill are so fricking important; it is the reason the wiz and bard are alive. you generally use it on incoming monsters. If a monster is already sticking to you, chances are they will continue sticking to you. If not, quickly lure it back.

here is how you tank: use Image to increase your agro and tankabilty. You don't even need to use skill on the monster, just "Hit" them. Normal hit with buff contain agro higher than wiz. Keep hitting and throw in some taunt every few sec
Tanking is not an easy job, you need to be sure you can handle 5-7 party mob without dieing, use ImageImage as emergency. If you decide to stack those with bless, you will become indestructible. You second concern is to make sure cleric survive too. Your Screen skills (ImageImageImage) should also be focused on Cleric. If 1 party mob slip pass you, party can fail.
DO NOT move the mob to close to wizz
DO NOT run too far
DO NOT use KD or KB ( you can KB monster that are on wiz, but not consistently pusing GP away from the party)
NEVER use Giant sword; you're giving everyone a hard time. You can use Axe on giant to give bleed, but if you keep using axe you're giving cleric a hard time.
DO always stay next to cleric
DO stay still (you can still pick up item/gold sometime)
DO lure the mobs constantly if they are on wiz (this is a difficult thing, you have to decide between staying still or to move to save the wiz. Sometime wiz will kill the mob, sometime not. Its all up to you if you want to save 1 live and kill the party, or let them die slowly and res and hopefully they kill it.)

Cleric (difficulty: HARD)
Everybody begs for buffs. Its ok to be reminded, but being begged for it is pretty annoying. Here is a simple guideline. This class takes some effort to know what to do, what do use incase anything happen. You have huge liability.
STR buff ->>> warrior and rouge
INT buff ->>> wizard, and warlock. bard kinda doesn't need them but if they decide that they also want to attack, give them.
You can do whatever you want with the leftover buffs
Cleric also hold a large amount of agro from constantly healing, hence you will also be semi-tanking.
STR CLERIC VS INT CLERIC.
This depend on the type of parties. Generally int cleric is a solid fail-safe build to go with. However, in 1 of the party i listed above need str cleric as a tanker instead of warrior. Either way, with a good bard its good to go.
Make sure the Tanker doesn't die : If tanker die, you will lose all the warrior buff, you will die next, every 1 else follow. Keep an eye out, don't just use healing cycle and forget.
Your healing skills are
ImageImage: These healing skills are ok. Since you have so many other better healing skills, you will NOT need to upgrade these.
ImageImage: group heals, they are lovely. You will need to max it.
ImageImage: this give 2 heals to anyone who has low hp (including yourself). This skill is instant, get it.
ImageImage: obviously this is healing over time. Everybody loves this, but warrior loves it most.
ImageImage: these are "emergency", they are instant and heal a chunk load. Its a life saver, but the cool down is really high. You pretty much replace your single target with this. Generally also focus on warrior.
ImageImage: group emergency heal, same idea

Healing note: You want to focus on warrior and yourself most.

DO constantly heal, even when nobody needs it (healing produce agro so mob will stick to you and warrior, not the rest. Heal agro are also farther than warrior’s lure, making it very effective for monster to stick to you. Btw healing cycle isn’t enough for warrior sometime, it take a whole lot more to keep them alive if the party is going well)
DO constantly check who needs buff
DO use bless wisely, it’s a emergency defense, if no one needs it, don’t use it
DO NOT move to far and run around too much

Rouge (difficult: MEDIUM)
Its really hard to find a reliable luring rouge sometime. Either they are so dumb or they don’t speak English at all.
You will use these luring skills.
ImageImage :Just HIT and RUN , you are not taking damages. Warrior buff will keep you alive only in some distance. Gather mob and run back pass to warrior and cleric so mob get off your back, and continue. You have to know when the party is failing, you should not bring your load of monsters back to the party, that’s not helping. This job is about consistency and quick mouse movement to lure all the mob. There is a video of a chinese lurer, waayyyy better than so many noobs in our sro( link below). Sometime you just can’t resist and want to take part of the killing, sure go ahead, but ONLY with daggar and ONLY when you have zerk on. Xbow doesn’t help, it pushes and pull and KD. Don’t bother if you don’t have dagger, you xbow skills aren’t helping. Just keep luring.
Why Rouge is better lurer than warrior: Rouge hold no agro, what this mean is mob get off their back easily. Rouge also walk faster, their fast shot and multi shot can hit SO FAR, SO FRIGGIN FAR. That is why, rouge is 10x better than warrior at luring. Just dont run out of the buff range
DO always run around looking for mob, bring it to cleric and warrior.
DO know when not to bring monsters back.
DO tell party there is a GP and that they should wait and get ready
DO NOT ever KD on GP, it PISS ME OFF SO MUCH
DO only and always use Fast shot and multi shot to lure enemy

Warlock (Difficulty: MEDIUM)
As a warlock you can be anywhere you want. You don’t die easy, and you have vampire kiss to take advantage off. I haven’t really have a lot of warlock in my party, but when I do they know what they are doing. Warlock isn’t a newbie friendly class to begin with anyway. So I really don’t have much to say. Although there are many fun useful skill you should take advantage of. Aside from all of that, you should help protect the wizard in-case any mob come. Just stun the mob and do your thing.
Notable skills
ImageImage: if you walk next to warrior and cleric with this skills, you are taking full advantage of it plus adding awesome sound effect
Image: "mirage", this skill reduce mob's agro. It can help save a wiz or 2. BTW using this on giant produce a large cool dark effect.



Bard (Difficulty: EASY)
We all know bards are best for having a wonderful buff( that look gay on dudes) and afk, and I kick them instantly. Beside that, constantly giving mp is very very important, mainly on cleric (but don’t forget about wiz too). You have two choices
ImageImage: "MC", mana cycle. Mp over time, its good on wiz and doesn't break harp
ImageImage: Mp in chunk, longer distance than MC, faster, better. But break your harp so quickly and it contain agro. Only use this when your in a good party.
Generally, people would want bard to pick up item. They can if the mob doesn't have splash damage. Personally in this setup, cleric and warrior will do a part-time pick up.
Some fun skills:
ImageImage: "Temptation", entertain yourself by watching one of the mob attack one another. Also can help save a wiz.
ImageImage: "Discord Sound", similar to mirage, but more concentrated only one a single mob. Used to saved yourself or wiz.

I'm not going through the 2 bard buffs, cause i think everybody knows about it.


DO NOT SIT DOWN, unless reason is given, I would kick any them right away.
DO constantly give mp.
DO always use Harp THAT ARE YOUR LEVEL. If your harp is terrible the mp you grant is terrible

Wizzard (difficulty: EASY)
In my party, when wiz beg for my warrior buff I would give them a reason or two why they don’t need it. They would then complain more about how wrong i am, so I kick them. Act right, stay back, attack only monster that are on sticking warrior. Take advantage of you splash damage. Setting up fire trap immediately attract a mob to you, don't do it
Notes on some skills:
ImageImage: You know what they are, use it. If you don't use it, i might as well just get a chinese nuker who will do the same damage as you with better survival.
ImageImage: NEVER USE THIS (in a good party). the last thing you want is to be right up close to warrior and cleric
ImageImage: This skill get me angry the most. It does a terrible damage and turk just mindlessly spam them even when the mob isn't nearby. PLEASE only use it to get the monster off you.
ImageImage: Please take advantage of this skill, use it even when you don't need it. This help warrior's tanking too
DO NOT move too close to cleric or warrior
DO NOT use lighting know back, damage its horrible. Only use it when party mob is on your ass
DO NOT use the first earth close range nuke, You want to keep distance.
DO NOT move at all, if you accidentally move, just go back.
DO always use Life control. Your safe in the back, JUST USE IT.
DO always stay still, it look nice and safe when you don’t move.
DO zerk when you can, don’t save for GP. If the party is going very very well you will get zerk ball in no time.

Chinese (for luring)
Sometime Chinese are way more useful than rouge. All they need to do use is a bow. They survive better and can walk a lot faster. Its even better if they have force, it helps out a lot on Gp. Bladders are pretty useful too with their snake dance skill. Don’t just shun them out. These video’s lurer are Chinese, and they are dam good. Str chinese are more favorable than int.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpmezpnn4_I (This is a force glaiver that use a lvl1 bow to lure)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3uv_zCApug

How is it possible to party at mob 9 levels higher than the player's levels?
IF you are able to form this proper form of party, here is the reason why you can go level at much harder mob
- Warrior has all cleric buff with str (10+ and more) , vital increase,and guard tambour, this make the warrior at least 6 level equivalent stronger.
- Wizzard are Using life control that maximize their damage, making it easy to kill high level mob. Cleric's int buff also improve significant damage
- Bard's dance of magic further improve wizzard's damage
If you play it properly you will be so surprise how well things are going.

Other Thoughts and Tips
- Bard can help attack monsters if they want, their skill are kinda fun
- Having GP doesn't necessarily mean rouge should stop luring, keep it going.
- Bard's level doesn't matter( doesn't mean you want a level 10 in a level 80 pt, 70 is enough), they still give a decent amount of mp so don't shun low level bard out too. Most low level bard i invited are so thankful they don't afk and very active
- Having wall make the party formation alot easier, but don't be discourage when you standing in the middle of nowhere.
- Only party at monster that are close melee, easier to chunk together. Mob can be 4-6 level higher than you. You can go to mob much higher later on because cleric str/int buff play a very significant role.
- If anyone come by (even chinese) with a pet. You would want that person in the party cause its just too tiring to pick up on your own. I once died from being too focus on picking
- All back-up cleric stay ALERT, when either cleric or warrior die, Switch and BLESS BEFORE RESS.
- If wiz complain too much about buff, give them pain quota and later they will realize they don't need it.
- You don't have to follow the buffing guide, sometime cleric and rouge are strong. They wont''t need quota so the fences is enough. 1 unlucky wiz won't b getting your quota, but provide them equal opportunity.
- my warrior has a cleric subclass. When my cleric die, i don't want to switch because people will lose buff. So someone better b fast to switch and res.
- When party goes really well, there will be shitload of item/gold/tab/other stuff. Picking up gold under a tablet is not easy, and i can't even walk around without accidentally clicking on floor items. Nobody wants to pick up tablet but its unavoidable, so save your bitching and just drop w/e is useless.

YOUR PARTY SHOULD LOOK LIKE THIS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIMpjsewis8 (Note! that the lurer is chinese, and the bard is low level constantly using mana wind)

This party set up need people with experience, if they are turks and don't speak english don't bother with them. When forming party make sure they speak english, ask them ahead of time to say something creative in english. They need to be willing to listen to you and follow your guide. You need time and patience, talk to them if they know how to do the proper thing. If they are impatient don't bother with them, finding wiz and bard are very easy (making them shut up is not). In all honesty, if you can't even get 2 people to follow you, give up......

I, myself, have been forming numerous party with my brothers throughout the game. We don't have all ff lvl100, but that doesn't mean we don't know what we're doing. We simply play this game for fun of euro party. We were doing sunsung at 34, Mujigi at 42, penon at 48, PEG at 56, Yacha at 64, Niya Guard at 66, and now 72 at B1 (lv81 mob).
Image

Good luck to you all.
Image
Thx to my fellow party-mates in the picture

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Last edited by mac on Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:24 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:10 am 
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thanks alot bro really needed.. pity iSRO is only full of bots

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:32 pm 
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yea :cry: , this game is out of control.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:38 pm 
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Quote:
You would want Int cleric instead of Str cleric.


Thanks for reminding the ones that need to be reminded! It bugs me when people reject an Int cleric for a Str one. :banghead:

I know why, besides lower mana there is another consideration, which of course is the amount healed is slightly less with a STR cleric.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:48 am 
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Parties like those are very hard to achieve. There is always one or two idiots that just don't know how to play in a party. From my experience it is usually the warrior as they do not know how to lure mobs or tank mobs away from the wizards. They just stand in the same spot buffing other members. Sometimes it is hard to communicate with some people or tell them how to play properly because they don't understand a certain language, so they just keep playing with their own method and ignore what you just advised them. This especially frustrates me :banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:59 pm 
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_Equal_ wrote:
Quote:
You would want Int cleric instead of Str cleric.


Thanks for reminding the ones that need to be reminded! It bugs me when people reject an Int cleric for a Str one. :banghead:

I know why, besides lower mana there is another consideration, which of course is the amount healed is slightly less with a STR cleric.



STR clerics aren't that bad actually. I am warrior/cleric and i play as cleric almost all the time (we have too many Lv.90+ warriors in our union). But if you play as str cleric, you shouldn't do it with a low level weapon or low level cleric skills. STR clerics have lower heals than int clerics, but if they have a good weapon (current degree) and good cleric skills, they can still do fine. With a competent bard you won't have any mana problems. It always depends on the pt and a str cleric can be very good too.


Last edited by Kronos on Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:29 pm 
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Nice guide!
For beginners 2-Tank-Setup is the best maybe and with good people you will get great experience too.
I've made a guide about 2-Tank-Setup on Avalon forums some time ago: http://www.avalonguild.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=359

Recently a friend showed me a really great pt setup that mostly is used on jSRO.

2 Str-Clerics, 1 Warrior, 1 Lurer (Rogue or Chn), 3 Wizards and 1 Bard

But this setup can't be played with noobs xD. I tested it on eSRO and it worked great.
This guy from jsro recorded his pts: http://www.youtube.com/user/atyo007#p/u

2 Str-clerics draw that much aggro that the wiz won't get attacked when they keep enough distance, even though they are in LC/ LT and don't have PQ or fences. :sohappy:

From Lv 80 on 1 Str-Cleric should be enough and you can get a 2nd bard for dance, that's how they pt on kSRO usually:



For me, I also love to play in GOOD european pts with players who know how to play. That's why I play Silkroad, organized grinding pts are most fun! :D

edit: If it is hard for you to handle mobs 10-11 lvs above the pt lv, organize a Bless cycle and you should do fine.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:59 pm 
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here a picture of jsro setup , it is best setup for lv 20-40

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:59 am 
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@Valkyria, wow that is actually quite interesting. I shall add it.

@Elites, what is that party consist of?

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:09 pm 
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jsro setup in low-lvl

2 Str-Cleric (tanking(aggro) the mobs)
1 Warrior (buff the 2 Cleric + protect Ints before new spawning mobs, next to them)
1 Lure
3 Wiz
1 Bard

at Lv 70+(very good players) or at 80+

1 Str-Cleric (tanking)
1 Warrior (tanking + buffing)
1 Lure
3 Wiz
2 Bard


BTW Lure: the best chn lure is a Bow/Force , cause of this therapy-skill , debuffing of ptg , can res , bow has good range

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:35 pm 
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mac did u steal this guide? -browses esro forum-

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:18 pm 
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i am raycrisis lol

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:13 pm 
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you are so full of ****....

either that or you decided to just troll me when i asked u about the image.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:30 pm 
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penfold1992 wrote:
you are so full of ****....

either that or you decided to just troll me when i asked u about the image.


i thought my reply in ur thread was enough to say i was ok with it but regardless...go check ur ecsro's inbox now..

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:30 am 
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Very good guide. More people need to see this. Especially all the idiots that play in my server. The problem is that all these people bot all day, and when they decide to play in human and join a party, they don't know what they're doing. Tanks use 2H sword and KD, rogue does KB and KD, wizards don't use LT/LC, bards use mana tambour when the pt doesn't require it, etc. It's hard these days to find educated people.

A few comments I would like to make though. First, I don't think it's so easy finding bards and wizards. For me, it's hard to get a 8-man party (lv50's in Azteca). So for the time being, I take what I can get.

Secondly, I disagree with having a rogue in a party. We might never agree, but I think the second warrior is much more useful and can lure just as well as a rogue. If you had seen some of the HUGE lures the warriors were doing in Venus back in the good days of Avalon, then you would not think rogue is a better lurer. And then you get the added benefits have having another warrior to buff the wizard; plus another person who can use skins (!!); and usually warrior has a cleric sub, so another cleric on board, which is always good to have. Now, maybe in your imagination, wizards can stay still and never get hit and never die. But this is not always possible, as in places where mobs automatically aggro (gens, for example). Sometimes wizards get hit without ever firing a shot. This is where the second warrior buffs come in handy.

This also leads me to the other point of my belief that two clerics is useless. The idea is that the two clerics draw all the aggro so that the wizards never get hit. However, if you have two warriors (instead of rogue) you won't need two clerics, because the wizards have buffs. Now that means you clear up a useless cleric for a much more helpful bard who can use dance and hit march, which increases damage for 3 wizards significantly. As an added bonus, one of the bards can attack (while the second one does MP), meaning even extra damage on top of the already extra damage. After lv90, both bards can attack (because of mana orbit), which means insane damage.

Overall, though, I think these are small points and would recommend your guide for anyone! Thanks. :)

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] How to form/play the proper Euro party
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Party set ups simply depend on what monsters you grind, what kind of people are online, in other words its situational. Good players are not players that function well in the ideal grind set-up that they always use when playing with friends ( kinda time schedulish), good players in pve adapt.

In general best damage set up is 2 Wizards and 1 Lock handsdown. Amazing zerk potentional, Lock can lure as well and PTG's go down in record time. Locks are most effective at heavy PTG spawn rates, so especially when you have monsters like chasers/Guards in which case 3 PTG at once is no rarity, get a lock. Most locks are cleric sub and they can easily switch between both roles to assist the main healer, HELL we did some parties with a lock who also healed while having 3 wizards at monsters 10 lvs higher. Went like a breeze.

Also 2 bards allows for dance+guards+easy keeping MP up. Actually 1 bard should be able to keep all MP up even when str clerics are around. However when possible make sure your bards help in the damage dealing, there is absolutely no reason INT BARDS do not contribute in this process. So make sure the bards in your union read the battle bard guide.

Also a common mistake is that warriors never may use 2hand or an int cleric may never switch damage modus: If the spawn rates allow and/or the survivability is quite good due to bless cycle: THERE IS NO reason why a rogue lurer/warrior lurer or tank/cleric would not switch to damage mode + zerk when theres a PTG. Good players excell at making these types of decisions, this is what makes the difference between an amazing and a completely perfect party.

Just some stuff that made me frown:

1 If a warrior needs another warrior to buff him with fences and pain quota on mobs ONLY 9 lv higher... ( unless they are magic with the warrior keeping a 9 gap, but if you plan on farming you should get a proper gear set for monsters in mind) you are doing something wrong.

2 If a strenght cleric needs fences and quota there is something wrong as well. The whole point you take a strenght cleric is him tanking monsters while keeping up a buff cycle so the warriors can lure without getting the heavy fence damage. When does a warrior died? Usually when luring monsters thus not having a steady stream of healing.... In most cases the direct damage is not killing a warrior, its the indirect damage from fences ( Thus I advocate do not lv up fences above 40% absorption rate), to make this indirect damage minimal keep up a bless cycle and earth barrier even when you wizards or your str cleric is hardly in trouble.

^^ However for the reasons of constant healing + High HP+Bard buffs+bless cycle etc... At STR CLERIC does not need warrior buffs.

3 When you dont care about wizards dieing, I surely would not play with you.

4 You talk about rogue lurer losing aggro more easily as if this a advantage over 2 warriors luring, thus 1 warrior + rogue > 2 warriors. Again I think you miss the purpose of 2 warriors luring and warrior + rogue set up. The main goal is to keep atleast 5 monsters at a focus point ( max splash damage) and keeping your party alive, both accomplish this in different ways.

5 Buffing your rogue with fences/quota??? Crazy much? A rogue should not get hit alot while luring at really strong monsters. In these parties there is no need for alot monsters since wizzies dont kill that fast... Especially if hes cleric sub, keep in mind that the goal of luring is to keep atleast 5 party monsters at the tank at all time, without OVERLURING, hence in such parties a rogue has to balance damage dealing and luring.

In general when there is a lack of monsters due to your fire power a rogue is more advantagoues. IN such cases he should not be troubled by the monsters, due to their nature of luring ( constantly and frequently, very close in buff/heal range), they do not need to resort to huge mob balls anyways. Let him switch between bow +shield and use grains w/e.

This led me to believe you are missing the purpose of having 2 warriors. And in other cases warrior + rogue.

Led me elaborate on the purpose of 2 warriors and their roles in different scenario's. In general I distuingish between 3 options:


- INSUFFICIENT SPAWN RATES, ALMOST SAME LV MONSTERS, MOBS ARE SCATTERED AROUND: Having a rogue has purpose. The warrior can buff up to 4 damage dealers. STR CLERIC/INT CLERIC + Rogue should not need buffs. Both the warrior and rogue lure. However in this case you are probably grinding at wrong monsters. This happens at cap lvs or for whatever reason.


- ALOT FIRE POWER+SPAWN RATES ARE SUFFICIENT+WIZARDS TANK WITHOUT TROUBLE. These kind of parties happen at the cap lv or when higher lv monsters are no options since they crowded with bots or bad spawn rates. In such a case the warriors simply drop the monsters at a unbuffed STR CLERIC and full buffed wizards, they keep doing huge ass lures at the same time and walk over the party with not caring about where you are actually dropping the monsters. There is no need to tank for the warriors at all. Bless circle should stay up and earth fence only to minimize indirect damage, wizards are basically gods that have full time zerk + invincibility.

- STRONG MONSTERS 11-13 lvs higher+GOOD SPAWN RATES. In this case what is the gain for even having arguebly more luring potentional??? There is none since you can keep a steady stream of monsters without trouble. In fact you might as well keep your wizards full buffed just in case one of those 13 lv higher monsters gives your wizzies a smack. Str cleric might need a little buff like PQ and INT CLERIC should be fully buffed. You can work with 1 main tank + 1 lure tank ( who is buffed with the transfer aggro buff). Use fences when there are like 3 PTG.

Basically a warrior lures different from a rogue, they do huge ass lures cause they can actually tank these lures. Then when arriving at the party they tank the whole lure. The already build up aggro helps you keeping aggro OVER the wizards, so one might call this an advantage. Then the 2nd warrior does a huge ass lure. Once the first one is closed to finished he comes back and the 1st one can do a huge mob ball. Ofcourse a little flexibility can be thrown into the mix, like having a main tank + lurer.

Do not mistake me I dont say rogue < warrior, they have different ways of luring monsters and should adapt play style accordingly or the type of monsters you are grinding. But only in extreme cases 2 well played warriors cannot equal warrior + rogue in performance.


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