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 Post subject: [GUIDE] Bard's Explained. (updated on 21/09/2008)
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:16 am 
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Bard's Explained

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Contents

1. The Guide
2. The Job
3. The Skills
4. The Tips & Tricks
5. The Sub
6. The Frequently Asked Questions
7. The Videos
8. The Updates

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1. The Guide

This guide is made to clear most of the confusion regarding bard's build. I'm lvl 80 farmed Bard in Venus. I will try my best to explain what made Bards important and why it is fun to be one. I will update this guide from time to time to answer new questions regarding the build and the playstyle. And for the record, this is an advance guide for Bard, I will not describe all the skills. I will only explain the extras that most people didn't know bout Bard.

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2. The Job

Bard is all about MP,speed and damage absorbing. At lvl 80, u will get around 50% MP increase when Harp is equipped. Your speed with Swing March will be at 90%. That is the fastest speed buff in the game minus the Drug of Typhoon that costs around 200k for 30 minutes. Nukes skills is among the fastest and the cooldown is fast too. So, what is your role? What can you contribute? I called it The 3 elements. MP, Speed and Tambours.

First of all, Bard is a support character. Get it in your mind. Dont whine about Bards not hitting much and so on. Bard should help others heal their MP. One will ask, "I got pots, why should i get a bard to heal my MP?". For all information, wizards, clerics and even warrior need MP to keep using / spamming their skills in party. And the 15 seconds pot time is not helping because they will use more MP than pots can heal. That is why Bard is important. To make the party do what they do without running out of MP. Bard is also good at damage support. It may not do much good in party grinding, but in group pvp, it will shine.

Secondly, the speed. The faster your tanker move, the more mobs they can lure. More mobs means more kills for wizards. More kills means more exp/sxp. And to have speed for all is a great thing when you are in pvp / guild war / fortress war / jobbing.

Thirdly, tambours. Bard have 2 main tambours and hit march. Guard tambour, mana tambour and hit march. At lvl 80, Guard tambour will absorb 38% damage from physical attacks and mana tambour will absorb magical attacks. Hit march will increase your party attack rating. At lvl 80, it will increase it for 79. Higher attack rating will increase the overall damage done from you and the party. Since so many people underestimate the power of tambours, let me give a simple example and calculation. Imagine you are a wizard with 8K HP. A person come and hit you for 10K damage and you are dead. With tambour, it will absorb 38% of the damage. At the end, you will get hit for only 6.2K and you are still alive and able to hit that person. The same concept can be use when you are in a grinding party.

Battle Bard. Your nukes is almost as good as chinese nukers. But the casting time is extremely fast. You will need 3 main nukes and 1 extra absolute damage skill. You will most probably 2 or 3 shots anyone without extra buffs or block. Nuke away when you have time in between healing mp for your party. Keep your tambour / dance up at all time and you will notice how fun it is to be a Bard. I will make a video of Bard in battle in future updates.

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3. The Skills

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This is my current skills list. To make it easier for a new bard, just take all the maxed ones. I will not explain each of the skills and what they do. You can read the description in game and you will know. There are some skills I didn't maxed and I will explain why.


Skills Not To Max and Why

1. Mana Switch - This skill will absorb 50% of the damage made by the target. Dont get your hopes high because there is a limit. For example, Mana Switch lvl 7, the max MP you can absorb is only 742. And it costs 1112 MP to cast. Sure it will continue for 20 seconds, but my Mana Cycle is enough to max my MP. I did lvl up the skill before but I soon realized it is not worth to max and I dont use the skill anymore.

2. Holding Clamor - Useless because you will get Patter Clamor later without having this skill maxed.

3. Temptation - If you like to watch mobs fighting each other for 30 seconds, then max it. I dont. It's fun for the first time, but worthless after that.

4. Mana Wind - Good at early lvl when your mp cycle is not good enough. Can be use for emergency. It will aggro mobs to you. When you are higher lvl, you will find it not that important and the high lvl skill called Mana Breeze will replace it and it doesn't need Mana Wind to be maxed. Little advice from me, a good Bard is a Bard that got totally ignored by mobs. Just keep your Noise skill up and use only Mana Cycle.

5. Rave Melody - Dont need it because I'm pure Int and I have a high max Mana. But, for a str Bard, this skill will be usefull since you have low max Mana. Should be use in emergency time only.

6. Discord Wave - It is not always do what the description does. It will mostly do the opposite. Instead of decreasing aggro, it increases it. This skill is useful to get botters killed and I don't need it max to increase aggro on the target.

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Good Skills That Need To Be Maxed

I will not explain all the skills needed to be maxed but only the ones that people think is not worth to get but I found it otherwise.

1. Cure Melody - It doesn't appear to be good at first. With relatively slow cooldown time and only on 1 target. I didn't include this skill for my farming calculation. But at lvl 90, this skill will get an upgrade called Cure Music and it will randomly cured one of bad status from weakening, limitation, curse line for all the party members.
EDIT : This skill is not needed for Cure Music skill. So, dont max it if you dont have enough SP. It is still usefull when you are out of pills in war.

2. Tuning Noise / Tuning Sound - This is a low absolute damage output skill. I didn't add this before but as time goes by I have learn that absolute damage is very important. I got it maxed now both Tuning Noise and Tuning Sound. The max damage from Tuning Sound is at 2661 and it will absorb 100% Mana depending on the damage. Since the damage is fixed, I will get 2661 Mana when I hit a target. But it is also depend on the target's HP. If the target have lower HP then the damage made, I will only get Mana at the same amount of the target's HP. Why absolute damage is important? When a target is fully buffed for instance with bless, screen, fence quota and so on, you will be making the exact damage of 2661 regardless the massive buffs that the target have. And Tuning Noise is a fast cast skill and the cooldown is only 3 seconds. I have seen wizards made less than 1k damage with Meteor on a fully buffed target, where absolute damage skill will hit as much as the description says.

3. Horror Chord, Weird Chord and Booming Wave - At this particular time in Venus. I am the only Bard that have all these skills maxed. People will think, "Bard attacks is useless and low". I dont think so. Many people have seen me PVP in groups where I used all these 3 skills. And I can safely say it is deadly. Horror Chord (single target) and Weird Chord (3 target) cooldown time is only 3 seconds. It is among the fastest casting and cooldown skill in the game. I am known as the ultimate KSer in group pvp, guild war, fortress war because of these skills. I hit faster than anyone else. And if the wizard cant 1-shot a target, I will finish them off. Practice these skills and you will find it usefull. One more thing, Booming Wave is among the best/huge looking skill in the game.

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4 max dances and Booming Wave in action

4. Patter Clamor - Aoe bind skill. Most people will not get it but since there is no pre-requisite skill to max to get this skill, I would suggest you to get it. Use it when you are running from a target or to stop a running target. Useful in group pvp.

5. The passives - Get them all. I hate to see Bard without max passives and their tambour / dance is down seconds after they got hit once. Max it to stop interrupting the party. And to have the extra range is good so you dont need to be so close and still keep tambour / dance up.

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SP Needed

SP needed to get all the maxed skills at lvl 80 is 192,104

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4. The Tips and Tricks

Dance Skill

1. Dance will give your party a great buff no other build can give. The max number of dances your party can do is 4 with 5 bards. For example at lvl 80, you can give your party 34% Physical / Magical Damage increase, 34% increase in cleric healing and 34% decrease in mana consumption. Add Dancing of Wizardry with wizards with Life Turnover, it will turn out deadly. For example, a 20K nukes will be 26.8K nukes. Enough to kill most people in 1 shot. Your party will have better chance to get uniques kill with this dance. Use Dancing of Healing when you need more heals from cleric. Useful in uniques hunting and group pvp. Use Dancing of Fight to pleased your STR party members when they zerk and you can see HUGE criticals. And Dancing of Mana if the party already have the other dances and if you just want to afk for a seconds/while. This will help the INT not to cry for MP when you are away.

2. How to make dance easy? I have seen many new Bards struggling to make dance. It always made me smile and wish I made a guide on how to make it easier. This is the easiest way to describe it.

(a). Bard-1 = Any Tambour or Hit March
(b). Bard-2 = Any Dance + tambour or Hit March (cannot be the same as Bard-1)


That's it. Your party will enjoy the great dance. Tambours and dances will depend on your party. Usually the highest skill lvl bard will do the important tambour / dance. When fighting a physical mobs, make sure you get the highest skill lvl bard to do the Guard Tambour. Same with when fighting a magical mobs, make sure your party have the highest lvl of Mana Tambour.

3. Max 4 dances. How cool is that to make a full dance party when you celebrating a victory or anything? How to make it? It is easy as a,b,c,d,e. This example will show the easiest way to do it.

(a). Bard-1 = Guard Tambour
(b). Bard-2 = Dancing of Fight + Mana Tambour
(c). Bard-3 = Dancing of Wizardry + Hit March
(d). Bard-4 = Dancing of Healing
(e). Bard-5 = Dancing of Mana


There you go, a max dancing party. One thing I found out is you dont need all the tambours up to make more than 1 dances. 1 tambour is you only need to do all 4 dances. To make the fastest max dances in a party, just do it like this.

(a). Bard-1 = Any Tambour or Hit March
(b). Bard-2 = Dancing of Fight
(c). Bard-3 = Dancing of Wizardry
(d). Bard-4 = Dancing of Healing
(e). Bard-5 = Dancing of Mana


4. The most important thing you have to do is to keep an eye on your tambour if you are the first Bard. When your tambour is down, all the dances will go down too. Make sure you didn't get hit too much or you will interrupt the party flow. Know your role. If you are the initial tambour Bard, it is all depend on you to make the dance work.

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Max Dances in Cave

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MP Healing

1. To make it easier for you to do your job. re-organize your party list depending on their builds. For example, I will always put both of my tanks on top of the list and the most mana hunger member (fully farmed lvl 80 wizard) is at the bottom and the second mana hunger member on top of it (cleric or slower skills spamming wizard). Use Mana Cycle on yourself first. Then start Mana Cycle from the bottom of the party list. I usually dont do Mana Cycle on the tanks because they usually dont need it. And most of the tanks that I know always have lags when I cast Mana Cycle on them. I dont know why but It sure did. To counter this, I will use Mana Breeze to max their MP. But only use Mana Breeze when you can take couple of hits because it will aggro. Make sure you Mana Cycle on yourself first before using Mana Breeze as it cost 5727 MP to cast. You dont want to ended up with no mana. It may sound easy to manage your own mana, but when you are in an active high lvl party on Generals, you wont have time to watch the action as you will be busy healing MP for your party members. You will concentrate mostly on your party list most of the time.

2. If you found Bard to be boring at not challenging, try to raise your standard. Try to make your party members have full MP at all times. This will help you not to fall asleep while Barding in party. Especially in a long party (4 hours+).

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5. The Sub

You can use any build as your sub but my sub is Wizard. I was a pure Bard until lvl 4X and made Wizard as a sub to make myself more versatile in a party. It is all about what you want to contribute in your party.

Why Sub?

1. It is important to be able to switch role when needed. When the party lacks wizard, I will switch to it if there is another bard around.

2. To solo when there is no party around or to do a quick quest.

3. To powerlvl / powerparty friends or union members. No doubt wizards is the best at powerlvling, with 4 constant AOE's it can be the fastest powerlvling build in the game.

4. Uniques kill. You will have higher chances to get the kill or to get your party the kills with wizard. More damage = more chances to get it.

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My Wizard Skill List and Skill Bars

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To make it easier, just get the maxed ones. You might think I have more wizard skills than Bard skills. It is true because wizard have more useful skills to maxed. For me, I want to be good at both builds that is why I have all the skills needed maxed. Personally I dont call wizard as my sub as I have both of it maxed.

My role in a party is different when I switch to wizard. Bard is about the support, wizard is all about damage. Choose your role or let the party choose it for you. It is all about how you want to contribute to the party.

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SP Needed

SP needed to get all the maxed skills for both Bard and Wizard at lvl 80 is 430,474

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6. The Frequently Asked Questions

This part will remain open to discuss the questions people may ask in the future.

1. Question regarding the chances of using Dancing of Healing / Mana
phulshof wrote:
How often do you get to use dance of healing/mana? On Troy it's hard enough to even find a high level bard, let alone 2 or 3. I would assume that the other dances are preferred over these 2, so unless you get 4 or more bards together, dance of healing/mana would not be used. Am I overlooking something here?
I would say not much. Especially Dancing of Mana. You only use Dancing of Healing when you seriously need more healing power from the cleric and Dancing of Mana only when your party need it. It is rare but to have them available when you need it is a good thing. Venus for instance, most of us lvling in a party, so there's plenty of bards around even bard as a sub from a STR build to use the dances. And you dont need all high lvls to do all the dances, just a high lvl bards to do the most important dance and the other dances is a bonus.

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2. Opinion on STR Bard regarding survivability
Prophet Izaach wrote:
The benefit, of course, is the tanking ability, though not as close as a warrior's, or simply put it: Survivability. But then again, why would you still worry about surviving, when you're buffed up and protected by both tankers and healers in a working party? Well, with survivability comes two notable benefits:

  • You will ease off the work of tankers and healers. Instead of giving you fences, the warrior can just give it to someone else - another pure INT damage dealer perhaps. The clerics need not worry about you too - well, not as much as other support builds.
  • Mana Wind or Mana Breeze can be used without hesitation. Even if it increases your aggro, dying from getting mobbed is lessen.
First of all, in a good funtional working party there would be 2 tanks (meaning 4 person can be buffed), 1 cleric, 1 Bard and 4 wizards (or it can be 3 wizards and another bard or 3 wizards and a warlock). Out of that party, the cleric and 3 of the wizards will get buffed by the tanks. So, it will leave 1 wizard and 1 Bard without a warrior's buffs. Either the wizard share the buffs from one of the tanks or just go without warrior's buffs and without Life Turnover.

I need to stress this out again, a good Bard is a Bard that always get ignored by the mobs.You have noise skill. You have the speed. You will get ignored by mobs, you wont need any warrior's buffs. Bards don't need any buffs except the free buffs from cleric (this is optional too) to do his job. Why? Because we rarely get hit, if you want to use Mana Breeze or Wind, just move to a spot where not many mobs around. The range from that skill is good enough to get it to work. So tanking ability is not needed because in a party Bards usually become the last person standing (if the party got run over by mobs or cleric dced). This is from my actual experience.

Will STR Bards work? Yes. This is from what I saw everyday in Venus. We have many STR builds with Bard as a sub. They are doing ok in a party. The only downside is they are struggling for MP themselves and the MP they heal is not as good as INT Bard (even though the skill show weapon reflect, it actually refers to your magical attacks reflect). But they manage to heal most of the INTs in party. I have no problem having STR Bards in party as I know they can do their job. Just give them INT buff from cleric and they are fine. The good thing about STR Bard (as a sub) in Venus is they have all the good skills too and it is up-to-date with their current lvls. So we can expect high tambours, speed (they still lacking on this) and especially Dance of Magic. I dont know if they will get the 80 skills or not, but I hope they do.

The most simple way to describe STR Bard are as follows :
Grinding Party - Same as INT Bard but they will struggle for their own MP but still can do their job.
  • Solution = Use Rave Melody (convert HP to MP), get INT buff from cleric and always Mana Cycle on yourself first.

Group PVP - You would think you can tank more with more HP but without fence / quota, even a STR builds will be an easy target for wizards / nukers. Plus you cannot do support damage to your party. It is rare to have STR builds to Bard in a war. But if it happen, just hope the opponent will ignore you and you dont get too much hit.

Final words, STR Bard is do-able and can do their job without the bonuses (support damage, higher MP healing, higher max MP).


Image
Example of Bard's survivability


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7. The Videos

Battle Bard

Battle Bard in Fortress War lvl 90 with Mana Orbit
Code: Select all

Battle Bard in Fortress War lvl 8X without Mana Orbit
Code: Select all

Battle Bard in Grind Party lvl 8X without Mana Orbit
Code: Select all

Battle Bard in Grind Party lvl 90 with Mana Orbit
Code: Select all

Battle Bard in Grind Party lvl 90 on mobs lvl 99
Code: Select all


Dance Skills

Max 4 Dances
Code: Select all
Thanks WanderingMarlee for the vid

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8. The Updates

Guide Updates

19/05/2008 - Guide released.
01/06/2008 - Added Battle Bard in Fortress War Video (80 Cap)
03/06/2008 - Added Video Section
03/06/2008 - Added Battle Bard in Grind Party Video
03/06/2008 - Edit regarding Cure Melody skill
11/07/2008 - Added Battle Bard in Fortress War Video (90 Cap)
21/09/2008 - Added Battle Bard in Grind Party lvl 90 with Mana Orbit Video


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Future Updates

1. More Battle Bard / PVP Bard Video.
2. 90 cap skills.
3. Lvl 90 Bard playstyle.

________________________________________________________________________________________________
Guide made by Guardia in Venus.
You can use this guide at any legit sites as long as you put my name on it.

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(Retired) - Guardia - Avalon - Venus - 9X - Battle Bard / Wizz
[Guide] Bards Explained


Last edited by Guardia on Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:01 pm, edited 18 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:52 am 
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Wow, thanks Guardia, been waiting for an up-to-date and complete bard guide in a while... :D

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:33 am 
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WOW... thats all I have to say... Thank you!!

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:19 pm 
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very good guide, deserves sticky.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:53 pm 
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I agree with most of your claims, but do have a few questions:
1. What is the difference between restraint and bind status?
2. How often do you get to use dance of healing/mana? On Troy it's hard enough to even find a high level bard, let alone 2 or 3. I would assume that the other dances are preferred over these 2, so unless you get 4 or more bards together, dance of healing/mana would not be used. Am I overlooking something here?
3. You, like me, must be looking forward to mana orbit at level 90? :)

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Pure INT Bard/Cleric, Bard 88, Cleric 88

[83] Pinokkio
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[81] Sybian
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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:24 pm 
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1. Bind will make the target unable to move but I dont know about restraint.
2. The answer for this question have been added in FAQ part in the guide.
3. Hell yes! I always envy cleric's Healing Orbit and wish Bard should have that kinda skill even before I heard about Mana Orbit at lvl 90. It will cost 15896 MP just to cast it though. The max MP I have now with int buff is at 30K. That's half of the MP gone just to cast it. But it should be better at lvl 90 because the max MP will be higher. I would just Mana Cycle myself before casting the skill. Should be ok I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:43 pm 
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Uehara wrote:
1. Bind will make the target unable to move but I dont know about restraint.
2. The answer for this question have been added in FAQ part in the guide.
3. Hell yes! I always envy cleric's Healing Orbit and wish Bard should have that kinda skill even before I heard about Mana Orbit at lvl 90. It will cost 15896 MP just to cast it though. The max MP I have now with int buff is at 30K. That's half of the MP gone just to cast it. But it should be better at lvl 90 because the max MP will be higher. I would just Mana Cycle myself before casting the skill. Should be ok I guess.


1. Well, my question came from your statement about holding clamor vs patter clamor. The first does restraint, the other bind.
2. Thanx. :) Guess I'll not take the skills for now until there actually are more bards on Troy. I already figured as much, but it was good to check with someone who actually made it all the way to lvl 80.
3. Do mana cycle and mana orbit work together (I'd have to check with healing cycle and healing orbit when I hit lvl 80 as a reference; any clerics help us out here?)? Even if it does: Why would you need to mana cycle before casting mana orbit if mana orbit already casts the 16 second MP healing on everybody in the party, including yourself?

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[83] Pinokkio
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[81] Sybian
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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:50 pm 
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phulshof wrote:
Uehara wrote:
1. Bind will make the target unable to move but I dont know about restraint.
2. The answer for this question have been added in FAQ part in the guide.
3. Hell yes! I always envy cleric's Healing Orbit and wish Bard should have that kinda skill even before I heard about Mana Orbit at lvl 90. It will cost 15896 MP just to cast it though. The max MP I have now with int buff is at 30K. That's half of the MP gone just to cast it. But it should be better at lvl 90 because the max MP will be higher. I would just Mana Cycle myself before casting the skill. Should be ok I guess.


1. Well, my question came from your statement about holding clamor vs patter clamor. The first does restraint, the other bind.
2. Thanx. :) Guess I'll not take the skills for now until there actually are more bards on Troy. I already figured as much, but it was good to check with someone who actually made it all the way to lvl 80.
3. Do mana cycle and mana orbit work together (I'd have to check with healing cycle and healing orbit when I hit lvl 80 as a reference; any clerics help us out here?)? Even if it does: Why would you need to mana cycle before casting mana orbit if mana orbit already casts the 16 second MP healing on everybody in the party, including yourself?

1. Holding clamor and patter clamor will both binds the target. I'm in game right now it it shows bind for holding clamor and patter clamor.
2. Yup, a good thing to do if you're saving SP for now.
3. We probably need cleric lvl 80 to answer this and hope they will work the same as them. As for Mana Cycle on myself first before casting Mana Orbit, maybe it is just my safe way to do anything. I always cycle myself before doing any big skills. I cannot be 100% sure I will do it like this at 90. Time will tell when I reach 90. Still need 400K SP to max both Bard and Wizard. :!:

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:09 pm 
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Wow a really good guide Guardia. And good insights I'm gonna try to remember when I'm barding. Barding ftw =P


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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:11 pm 
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Uehara wrote:
1. Holding clamor and patter clamor will both binds the target. I'm in game right now it it shows bind for holding clamor and patter clamor.
2. Yup, a good thing to do if you're saving SP for now.
3. We probably need cleric lvl 80 to answer this and hope they will work the same as them. As for Mana Cycle on myself first before casting Mana Orbit, maybe it is just my safe way to do anything. I always cycle myself before doing any big skills. I cannot be 100% sure I will do it like this at 90. Time will tell when I reach 90. Still need 400K SP to max both Bard and Wizard. :!:


1. Ok, I'll take your word for it; I'm not behind my games computer right now, so I took the data from mmosite.
2. I'm bard/cleric; an SP hog if ever I saw one. :)
3. I know the feeling; wizard and cleric don't differ that much in their SP needs I believe, tho I've already started selecting skills not to get for cleric as well. I don't need all those healing skills and 3 (!) different res skills.

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[88] Vivace
Pure INT Bard/Cleric, Bard 88, Cleric 88

[83] Pinokkio
Pure INT Force Nuker, Force 83, Cold 83, Lightning 83, Fire 60

[81] Sybian
Pure INT KD Nuker, Bicheon 81, Cold 81, Lightning 81, Fire 60


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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:47 pm 
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SOOOO Professional... Always wanted to have this AFK build o.O :P

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:24 pm 
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AngloKnight wrote:
SOOOO Professional... Always wanted to have this AFK build o.O :P


If a bard's afk he's doing it wrong (and you're letting him). A bard should be very busy, doing either:
1. Healing MP.
2. Keeping an eye out for party members in trouble.
3. Killing mobs.
The only passive thing he does is buffing. If that's all he's doing he's no different from a passive cleric, in which case you should find a more useful party member.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:47 pm 
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phulshof wrote:
AngloKnight wrote:
SOOOO Professional... Always wanted to have this AFK build o.O :P


If a bard's afk he's doing it wrong (and you're letting him). A bard should be very busy, doing either:
1. Healing MP.
2. Keeping an eye out for party members in trouble.
3. Killing mobs.
The only passive thing he does is buffing. If that's all he's doing he's no different from a passive cleric, in which case you should find a more useful party member.

He's just joking. Dont worry. Plus he's a tanker and he's not the one who cries for MP. But he should know that Mana Tambour will save him from a Meteor. In our last guild war with Pepsi, I was barding with Mana Tambour up. Guess what? Wizards with life turnover couldn't 1 shot our tankers. Guard tambours at generals party is important too. People just dont know how important it is because it is always there.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:53 pm 
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Great guide :D

Quick question: Pure INT or Pure STR?


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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:11 pm 
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Prophet Izaach wrote:
Great guide :D

Quick question: Pure INT or Pure STR?

Pure INT.
_______________________________________________

Guardia, dude, I gotta say, this is pro work for a guide.
I'm amazed.

This should definitely be stickied. Best bard guide so far.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:17 pm 
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You rock ^_^

Bard's tree is so shiny O_O Makes me regret changing to wiz/lock hehe

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:55 pm 
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Nice guide Guardia :D
All your skills are maxed :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:39 pm 
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Thanks. Btw, long time no see u Flow. Where have u been?

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:37 am 
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Prophet Izaach wrote:
Great guide :D

Quick question: Pure INT or Pure STR?

You can be a pure str bard... but not a true bard... You would be able to recover mp for others not as well as normal bard since your mp is low, just gets really annoying. You wouldn't also be able to add in a little damage/nuke... well except the absolute damage maybe? Not sure about that. But still, I have partied/been a str bard alot, and the party works fine.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:47 am 
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I was thinking if Rave Melody might make a pure STR bard work. That, including the bonus MP from just equipping a harp, could make this peculiar build function. There are only two downsides from it, with one being temporary:

  • Nukes are completely useless because the build is STR.
  • One can only start using Rave Melody at level 36.

The benefit, of course, is the tanking ability, though not as close as a warrior's, or simply put it: Survivability. But then again, why would you still worry about surviving, when you're buffed up and protected by both tankers and healers in a working party? Well, with survivability comes two notable benefits:

  • You will ease off the work of tankers and healers. Instead of giving you fences, the warrior can just give it to someone else - another pure INT damage dealer perhaps. The clerics need not worry about you too - well, not as much as other support builds.
  • Mana Wind or Mana Breeze can be used without hesitation. Even if it increases your aggro, dying from getting mobbed is lessen.

I'm not making any claim on which build is better. I don't know which one yet, or maybe never will know as both might be equally effective with the final decision purely on the player. For now, this is all the points I have for a pure STR bard. The game clearly meant them to be pure INTs, evident from their magical attacks. However, an STR build can still work, though it comes with costs as well as benefits.


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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:59 am 
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There's 2 important reasons I think full STR bard won't work:
1. You'll lack the MP to cast the best bardic spells like Mana Orbit.
2. You'll not be able to do anything but buff and heal MP since almost all of your attacks are magical.

Once the bards get mana orbit, their MP healing tasks should go down to a minimum, and they should be able to focus on dealing damage (something they're actually pretty good at).

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:30 am 
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Prophet Izaach wrote:
I was thinking if Rave Melody might make a pure STR bard work. That, including the bonus MP from just equipping a harp, could make this peculiar build function. There are only two downsides from it, with one being temporary:

  • Nukes are completely useless because the build is STR.
  • One can only start using Rave Melody at level 36.

The benefit, of course, is the tanking ability, though not as close as a warrior's, or simply put it: Survivability. But then again, why would you still worry about surviving, when you're buffed up and protected by both tankers and healers in a working party? Well, with survivability comes two notable benefits:

  • You will ease off the work of tankers and healers. Instead of giving you fences, the warrior can just give it to someone else - another pure INT damage dealer perhaps. The clerics need not worry about you too - well, not as much as other support builds.
  • Mana Wind or Mana Breeze can be used without hesitation. Even if it increases your aggro, dying from getting mobbed is lessen.

I'm not making any claim on which build is better. I don't know which one yet, or maybe never will know as both might be equally effective with the final decision purely on the player. For now, this is all the points I have for a pure STR bard. The game clearly meant them to be pure INTs, evident from their magical attacks. However, an STR build can still work, though it comes with costs as well as benefits.

I've put my thoughts in FAQ part in the guide.


phulshof wrote:
There's 2 important reasons I think full STR bard won't work:
1. You'll lack the MP to cast the best bardic spells like Mana Orbit.
2. You'll not be able to do anything but buff and heal MP since almost all of your attacks are magical.

Once the bards get mana orbit, their MP healing tasks should go down to a minimum, and they should be able to focus on dealing damage (something they're actually pretty good at).
It will work but not as efficient as INT Bard. Take a look at the FAQ part in the guide. And yes, I agree with you about when we get Mana Orbit. Bards will have more things to do because right now, Bards is too busy watching the party list and Mana Cycling on them 1 by 1.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:54 am 
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Thanks for your reply. That really cleared the two advantages I pointed. Turns out they are not as advantageous after all.

pulshof also brought up a very important point. I checked Konpaku right away to check the required MP to cast Mana Orbit: 15,896. I then went to Nivlam to see the raw MP a pure STR has at level 90: 6,350. I then went back to Konpaku to see the additional MP that Rave Melody gives at level 86: 3,052.

Required: 15,896
Actual: 9,402

That's 6,494 MP short. Even with the MP bonus that a 9D harp gives, I highly doubt it would ever have enough to cast Mana Orbit.

That's it for me. Yes, a pure STR bard can function, but only as a sub. Say Guardia, do you want to be my mentor in Venus if ever I decide to make a bard? :D


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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:57 am 
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Sure, I'll be super active for 90 cap.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:49 am 
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awesome guide guardia...
ive got a question though....if wiz is the class i mainly solo with but bard is the class i use in pts...should i get the nukes and help deal the dmg or should i just concentrate on mp healing, tambours etc......or concentrate on both


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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:42 pm 
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If SP is not a problem for you, get them. If not, dont get it and just do the regular MP healing. For the record, i dont do much dmg support because I'm always busy healing MPs.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:51 pm 
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Guardia, one thing I would add in there for party play is that when you have two bards for the dance. You should always split the party between you for mana cycling. I will take two ints and the other bard will take two ints (with the higher bard taking the higher ints). The bards are responsible for cycling themselves. The main tank is cycled by whoever sees s/he needs mana first but as you said, they don't require it often and the lurer unfortunately suffers for a mana bit since I don't want to be running all over the map trying to cycle them. I always try to pay attention when they bring the mobs back and hit them with a cycle. But the added benefit of doing this is with only two main ints to worry about, it leaves plenty of time to do support damage with the fast nukes the bards have.

Great guide btw, you confirmed a lot of things I have discovered along the way, which gives me confidence my build is on the right track and you taught me a few things along the way. The one thing I'm looking forward to is your pvp tips. I haven't done much of that and I'm curious to see you in action.

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:48 pm 
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Thank you for this guide. :D

I'm currently a Lv76 bard/cleric (full int) and absolutely love it. Thank you for confirming that I'm going in the right direction with my build - my skill tree is practically identical to yours.

Can't wait to see the PvP video. I haven't done any traditional PvP yet but have been having fun taking out Chinese nukers in the CTF events. They seem to be shocked that I can take them out before they can do the same to me. Mana tambour FTW. :D

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:53 am 
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can u explain a bit of which skills i will need if i use it as a sub for my rogue. also, should i use bard or cleric. thanks

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 Post subject: Re: [Guide] Bard's Explained.
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:56 pm 
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nice guide

but a tip you didn't include for str bards is they should max mana switch. you said it wasn't useful since mana cycle will do job... but str bards as you said have problems with mp so use mana switch. I dont know if it is a bug or not, but you can mana switch the entire party (not the 4 it lists) so with switch on wizards and mana cycle on self, a str bard actually has no problems managing mp because when needed a mp pot can be used to initiate a switch/cycle, you can even switch people outside pt :S its nice getting bots to help fill your mp lol

in a group pvp, str bards should just use their str tree to attack, no point in being a bard since pvp and grinding is different, grinding wants to max grind time/damage while pvp is about surviving/damage so trading 1 less bard buff for extra person to kb/kb will help pt survive since a cleric that is on ground cant do job for other side


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