Silkroad Online Forums

[quote="†erminalI think your looking too far outside of it, a video game is a trivial, rather unimportant thing, while human life is a precious thing[/quote]


Human life is precious? Lol... Im pretty sure a murderer's life isn't that precious. Humans are just evolved apes, eventually, we will die out and no one would care really.

Taking the life of another human being is CLEARLY in the same realm of using a program to play a game for you.

So, is chewing gum in school about the same as drunk driving? Wow.

People usually take analogies out of context when it is two subjects like these are compared. Murdering in the virtual reality game of Silkroad Online isn't attached to such penalty to its reality counterpart. You murder, you're given murder status.

When you compare the similarities, we're clearing comparing them from their own realities. Murdering in reality conveys the hardest penalty given. Botting in virtual reality - Silkroad Online would result in a permanent ban (hardest penalty), or in JOYMAX's way, 700 year ban.

The two are clearing in the same "realm" when compared in their own realities. They cannot coexist with the similarities if they are in the same reality.

So as u said botting is not as serious problem? U want to say that because 90% of the server are bots, so having 1 more bot doesnt affect anything, and banning 1 bot doesnt change anything?
Bot => crowded server, destroy economy, better advantage in everything. The character is comparable to a human. U bot, u killed our effort, u killed our time for years....
Bot is not unstoppable, if u could give a little effort to guard the city for 30 mins a day with a lightning thief, there wont be much bots lvl up more than lvl 40. I remember that I told u a plan how to stop the bots by using thieves to guard with a therapy, but no one wanted to do it. NO ONE!!

The comparisons are getting so stupid, and people making comparisons to botting and murdering should stfu because it's showing how really stupid you are...c'mon, you're really embarrassing yourselves

@ThisIsAvalon: I really don't like you. Just had to let you know that.

You're trying to sound intelligent, but you're clearly not. If you say something like "would you be okay with a murder being told he's wrong just like you propose a botter should be told it's wrong" you're CLEARLY implying that somehow botting and murdering are comparable offenses. It implies that you're giving a ranking scale to level of offense, by combining virtual reality with actual reality. Something I think all of you do too frequently. Getting bent out of shape over a god damn video game is boderline insanity in-and-of itself. however, getting bent out of shape over someone murdering another person MAKES GOD DAMN SENSE!

and furthermore, there is evidence that a murder can be redeemed and rehabilitated. too bad tho, cuz people wiht the same "burn 'em at the torch" mentality that you fucks have run many governments and would rather just kill murders rather than have them be useful, productive contributors to society. and if you come here and tell me that it's cheaper to kill someone than it is to rehabilitate them, I'm going to climb thru the computer and punch you in the face

It's still better than : have someone else **** your girlfriend because u are lazy to do it yourself.

U simply doesnt understand what I tried to say. Breaking the rule = ban, there is no Farking exception.

So we are flaming eachother again, in the same bot topic.. again.

l2live with SRF rules, or leave.

</endtopic>

real life comparison rarely hold up >.>

but neways, u bot u get ban, comprende?

Colb has taken my words out of my mouth. I played the game back in the days (ever since it came out - always being legit), and it was a lot of fun. I don't play anymore cus I'm busy and I don't have the time.

Some players bots annoyed the shiet out of me. Especially the full sun set players with their shiny weapons. They brag a lot about how powerful they are and perhaps how rich they are and how insignificant most of legits are cus simply we don't have the money to buy a bot and bot ourselves. Honestly, I believe that argument is vague and most legit play the game cus they love playing it and don't really care much about being capped. That being said, NOT all botters are bad people. Even though I don't approve botting at all, my best friends in game were botters and they were very nice and helpful. They borrowed me their weapons and even their char to play around. They shared their little time they had to play the game chatting with me and jobbing.

I accepted them not cus they 'bought' me with their weapons or anything like that. I accepted them for who they were and how they acted towards me and other people. Some of them really don't have the time to grind the game and then sp-farm. Some of them have families and work to take care of, and yet they wanna have some fun when they come back after a long day of work.

The statement of 'botter are stupid, assholes, etc...' is too much generalized. Although, I do agree that the vast majority of botters are stupid, you will always find a couple that are very nice. Even nicer than some legits.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if botters that I hate or that I don't even know of get banned. They honestly didn't affect my game at all when I played SRO. Yes, it's true they were annoying at jobs and yea.. it's true that they were powerful and shiet. But meh, I had fun with my friends regardless if they were there or not. In a game, there will be always someone better than you. In the end, I think all of us should play just for fun and stop caring at what other people do. In that way, I assure you gonna have a better/funner gaming experience in SRO.

JackColon, what? It's quite clear that the analogy compares the punishment through different realities. That's the whole point of the analogy. It was made to create better understanding. I really don't see the problem with the analogy, other than it's somehow immorality wrong to compare something small as botting to something big as murdering in real life.

It isn't creating an comparison that botting is this all big and right in your face evil act of forever damnation onto whomever does it. It's really not at all. Nor is it an comparison that botting is right up there in murdering people in reality. It's an comparison to point out that such an action shouldn't be taken lightly, because when you compare the punishment outcomes, you get two very nigh-close results. JOYMAX isn't so forgiving, VAC isn't so forgiving, PunkBuster isn't so forgiving. The justice system isn't so forgiving. Ever heard of hardware ban?

But, as always - there's an exception. Rehabilitation is a great tool, but it's the person who needs to go along with it. Like some has said before, if a specific botter says he does not want to bot anymore, then he should remove his botted character. Delete it. And then start anew with a legitimate character. This is the same to be said towards Steam accounts. If you're VAC'd banned, then there's no other way to gain that original account back, you would need to create a new one and play legitimate, unless you want to be banned again.

By the way, pipigrande, can the same be said toward those who spent their time in hand grinding it all the way? Why should people be treated better just because they don't have the time? There's plenty of other games out there that isn't time consuming and fun. Why break the fairness and destruct the balancing?

Yeap, It can definetely be said for the legit community. There are plenty of games out there, but I guess they love SRO as much as any legit does? Cus if they didn't then it would be really stupid to spend all the money they do on SRO.

Yes, botters somewhat destroy the game and the balance. But botters will be ALWAYS in SRO. Honestly, I think it's unavoidable. Joymax won't do much and botters are also their source of income. That being said, instead of everyday thinking about how stupid botters are and things like that, why not try to concentrate on your char and try to think new ways of having fun with your friends and in SRO in general. After all, people should play the game for enjoyment and relaxation and not for commitment. Since botters will be there, why not make some friendships with some of them that are actually nice? I mean, after all they are people too and who knows, you might even find a really good botter-friend that will support you whenver he can.

---

As for Joymax, VAC and Punkbuster... that's honestly a very unfair comparison. Joymax fails in so many ways of trying to ban botters. VAC, on the other hand, is really good. So many of my friends played CS and they get banned all the time for trying to maphack at CS. And for punkbuster, punkbuster is good too. I personally play ET (Enemy Territory) and I don't see cheaters at the server I play on (perhaps, cus I only play in my clan server and only with pro people). Although, I have many friends that play public with punkbuster, they say it's a good measure anti-cheater.

The comparison of anti-cheating systems and JOYMAX wasn't to weigh out JOYMAX. It was to point out that cheating isn't the sort of crime people would slap your wrist for.

What game has prosper through cheating greatly? None, from my experience. People do not want an unfair environment - so what really is the thought that this game will somehow continue to exist without new people joining? Or even recommending this game? I seriously don't recommend this game to any of my friends. To try and to be legit in this sort of cheating atmosphere from level one is not fun. Why would people continue to play? Or even to be able to play with the type of over-population of bots? It isn't just gold bots that contribute largely to the traffic, player bots actually has control in an excessive amount of bots, just by looking through this forum.

Do you really think people go out and hunt botters without any sense of enjoyment in it? If people didn't enjoy in bot hunting, they wouldn't be doing it in the first place, nor would they continue to do it.

As I've stated once before, how can certain people relax with such a huge problem in front of them? They'll probably just leave the game. There goes more players who actually play the game.

It's very quite simple, if you don't have time for a game, you shouldn't result to cheating and breaking balancing between the players who want to play fairly. It just isn't right. But, people don't want to take up the responsibility. They want the level now, they want to do it without any sort of effort. They may complain that the game doesn't start until at a high level, but that wasn't the case during the early days of Silkroad Online. Cheating is the sole reason why high levels is looked upon as the only way to have fun in this game. Cheating has destroy the mental image of low level play.

I certainly agree with you on that. People that don't have the time to play shouldn't be playing in the first place and yes like it said before, botters do make the game suck for others in a direct way or indirectly(economy, server population, etc). However, like I posted before, bots are here and probably will always be. So, I was just suggesting for some people that are saying that SRO is no longer fun, isn't true at all if you look it in another perspective. Perhaps try to have fun in the game and forget about botters?, even though you see them everyday, that doesn't mean you have to be bothered by them.

IMO, you should only play SRO when you are having fun and when the fun is gone, sincerely, stop playing and move on. And about the people that you have mentioned before (the ones that hunts bots), I admire them for their determination. Well if they enjoy hunting bots, then go ahead go and do it. What's stopping them from doing it? It's a way of having fun anyways. I used to do that too (yummy drops - lol).

Look at it in a botters-perspective. In some ways there are the same as most long lasting legits playing the game . There is a clear comparison that could be made between both sides. They both love the game and I guess that's the only reason that keep both sides playing. On the legit side, fun is what drives them to sp-farm, grind and lvl up. On the botters side, fun is what drives them to buy their bot cards, buy lots of silk (not saying that legits don't buy silk, but I don't think many legits buy as much silk as botters), buy tons of gold, etc. Once fun, stops for both sides, they retire and move on.

If it was up to me (even though botters didn't really have a big impact in my SRO gaming experience), I wish that there was a clean SRO, where only legits existed and that everything was fair and that the amount of time you spend on the game would reflect the strength of your character. Clearly, that 'clean SRO' would never be reached with Joymax... so yea. Get use to botters and hey... just ignore them if that makes you feel better.

I could argue [link] that legitimate players would pay more silk in the long run. The only reason bots overall pay more silk is only because there are more of them. But individually, a legitimate player would pay much more and longer due to them hand grinding. If you were to average it out, legitimate players actually pay more.

I've been a cheater in many of my past experiences. I know how it feels to cheat. With the background knowledge, the botting perspective [link] is simply the greed and/or the addiction.

The reasons for vigilantism from the community such as SRF and individuals bot hunting was created rapidly was due to JOYMAX's slow response to the bot problem. If you love a certain video game and you see wrong in it - would you at least try to preserve the good aspects of it?

Besides, pipigrande, does the means of botting justify the outcome?

----
It irritates me that people who do not have the effort to work for something, they look for other routes - such as cheating. Why can't you turn away and say, this game isn't for me? Why go so far to destroy a great game? I'm sure I've said this before in my before posts. Heck, I've been rewriting a lot of stuff I've written before. In the end, as always. Does the means of botting ever justify the outcome?

I see that you're advising people to ignore the problem and just play. But, it just isn't that easy. People out there aren't going to just ignore it and play. Sure, there's days they just want to play and do whatever they want, which they do. Then there's days when they go bot hunting. People do what they want on their own time. I don't see how these people are over-stressing on a video game. If they are, then they'll obviously going to leave the video game if the problem persists through stress or any other negative emotions, unless that's what they like feeling. Really. I've been saying this before, written it out.

Just allow what people want to do, just not cheaters. If someone wants to bot hunt go ahead. If someone wants to play the game, go ahead. But, if it extends to cheating? No. That's just simply wrong. How hard is that to understand? Just because a problem will never go away, doesn't mean you should give-up and accept the bot problem as something that never became or was a problem. You can go ahead and party with botters, nothing is wrong with that. There's not really anything wrong with playing with botters. But, the botters themselves is a problem of its own.

To remove botters from a community such as this (SRF), is a great promotion towards legitimacy. It may not be a huge impact or it may be a huge impact. It's better to do something at least, than to sit back and watch a game you love fall to shambles. The bot hunting isn't a job, just as we play - we take out of our own time, whenever we want, and bot hunt. Just as we argue, I take the out time out of my day to try to rationalize the war on bots, as it is my pleasure. When I do not want to argue, I simply don't argue. It's the same way to bot hunting.

[quote="JacksColon]and furthermore, there is evidence that a murder can be redeemed and rehabilitated. too bad tho, cuz people wiht the same "burn 'em at the torch" mentality that you fucks have run many governments and would rather just kill murders rather than have them be useful, productive contributors to society. and if you come here and tell me that it's cheaper to kill someone than it is to rehabilitate them, I'm going to climb thru the computer and punch you in the face[/quote]


Lol, i'd rather kill him JUST to show an example. If America killed all the murderers in it, that alone would lower crime by a significant amount. The mentality for some people is, they kill someone and if they get caught then they get a free meal and place to sleep for the next 20 years. I'd rather kill the murderer, and scare the shit outta 5 others, which in turn would save 5 innocent people from dying then "rehab" them.

@Zing
Huh... you have time if you write so much:)
@To all
I wrote this because i did not saw any topic what tells the botters they can redeem themselfs and play this game actualyl, not just observe how their bot plays instead of them.
I mean, this game CAN be played and its pretty much fun if you have friends and i mean true friends. Living beings and so on.
My greatest problem is:
Botters are ppl too, not some archenemy.
Ppl are weak.
I mean, most ppl i know on eldorado are too young for this game or this mentality: "They deserve divine punishment coz they bot! BOOO!".
Anyone who knows me on this server knows im against botting.
Because botting is like you give your gf a dildo and say to her
"im tired of Farking you, now go and **** yourself dear"
Where is the fun?
Nowhere.
Most botters dont even know why they bot. "Just because"
Others BELIEVE botting is THE one and only way to reach the cap.
Most yungsters want only the end and in most cases they would just jump over the 6-7-8month grinding/trading/alchemy phase and as they reach this(with botting and such) what do they get? Nothing, except even more thirst for "power"(and start to buy gold) beacuse they BELIVE this is the only way.
But power is not the goal of anything. Power comes with experience and time you spend on learning and from knowing yourself better. (omg this is cheesy, i sound like Iroh)
Most ppl who i know dont bot and are proud of her/himself and enjoy every % of every lvl up to lvl80. They had(or have) the most unbelievable experience to +5 something, found sox stuff and we were happy togheter and such.
Why?
Because they had friends who gave them example how to do this and that(mostly) and dismantled the belief cap is possible only trough botting.
When someone finds friends and these friends are cool and ppl are rly togheter... now thats a BIG thing.THAT is power.
On the other hands, hate posts, holy inquisition and any other stuff related with ignorance leads only to a worse situation, and dont change the ppl who bot and this is what is see here... (sry mods)
Ignorance causes a reaction in ppl but this is not rational reaction, so not an _answer_ but the ignorance himself repeated and reflected.
Im not saying we should give each other a big hug and make some nasty goup sex orgy(aww... but this idea is so.. tempting )
My point only is, these botters are humans, mostly young ppl, mostly have no selfconfidence, not anything in this game what makes them proud of him/herself.
This is the basic reason for botting.
The others are lasiness, envy, but every cause is descended from frustration and the lack of selfconfidence.
If you show them an example, if you give these ppl a reason why they should _not_ bot, they happily do that. Leave botting and start enjoying the game itself.
With friends and togheter.
Of course, this isnt the case in like 40% of botters, but still, the majority of botters have no reason to play this game, this is why they bot.

Imho.

Cheers

I like BOb (ThisIsAvalon) but I really want to know why he cant figure out how to quote anyone.

Dont you just push a button and then type something under it?

If that doesnt work... Try this.

You broke my heart
Just an offtopic reply aww... *grabs a razor*
Btw. Do you bot?

forgive my over reaction, its probably because i only live in one reality.

edit:Btw silo, your responses are so purposeless. I never said anything you implied I said. Also, that stupid "Botting = having someone else **** your girlfriend" bullshit is so old. Its just rediculous. To these botters the grind is boring, unlike sex. They apparently enjoy non stop pvp, and jobbing and wasting billions gold on alchemy (sounds so fun.) This is their sex. The grind = putting up with the daily bullshit that comes with Farking a girlfriend. So Id say the better analogy would be "botting is like having someone else live with your girlfriend the week before her period."
But im thinking the majority of the kids on here that keep quoting this day old donut have never had sex, or a relationship that had real impact on their lives. Or they just think they sound cool using the word "****." I don’t know.

Then you are a 2D person. Life consists of millions of realities. One of them is your mental state. To grasp knowledge, you need to dip your mind into these many realities to understand many concepts.

Take the time to understand the certain similarities, not the whole entire pie. Sex is the idea that grinding is something you shouldn't miss out from one's perspective. All these analogies were made for is to point out a perspective.

You need to understand that analogies doesn't mean to compare all aspects. You can compare a heart to a pump. But, from your logic, we can't because the pump is made out of metal and the heart is an organ made out of human tissue. The whole entire point of the analogy is to bring forth a better understanding from a view.

A puppy is a like a kid, curious, live, and needs guidance.
A puppy is is not like a kid, four legs, fur, and needs to be treated like a dog.

Both analogies point out from two different perspectives. The first one points out that puppies need guidance just like our children. While the second points out that a puppy is a dog and not a human; thus you should care for him or her as a dog.

- But it is great that you made your own analogy. To botters, the bot is sex. Too bad it contradicts your previous statement.

i understand analogies, but they go to far or are completely off point.

Boting =/= murder in ANY reality. Murder is to remove the existance of anothers life. It is evil, it is the worst thing anyone could ever do. I can think of several other things in SRO that’s worse than botting. Such as scamming. Not just the " lemme make that weapon a sun +35245234 weapon, idiot scamming. The kind of scamming where one person pretends to be like 3 people and they build your trust and have a planned plotted scheme to screw you over and leave you blind sighted. That’s worse than some idiot who doesn’t want to play the game. That’s evil and those people, they need to be banned.

Of course a pump and heart are comparable. A heart IS a pump, It is not LIKE a pump. thats not analogy, it’s a fact, so thats irrelevant to this conversation. Find something that a heart ISNT and find a way to compare it. You truly lack understanding as far as analogies go.

Of course sex isnt something you shouldnt miss out on, but that’s where all the fun is in a relationship. So its NOT equal to botting. Botting is like having sex and going home. Playing the game is to experience more than just the part you enjoy, but to muddle through the tough times and to build character by it. THE RELATIONSHIP part of having a girlfriend. Botters have no character. They simply have sex and go home. Any married man/woman or anyone in a serious relationship will understand this. So I take it youre neither, or have no idea what you have gotten yourself into if you are either.

You are NOT as smart as you are pretending to be. This isnt a flame, im just trying to save you face, cause the more that comes spilling out of your mouth, the less and less intelligent you appear.

I don’t sympathize with botters, I do sympathize with anyone who is taken in by this drivel you are trying to pass on as intelligent banter.

Is it obvious you still don't understand from this statement alone. Go straight to dictionary.com, type in analogy. Here, I do it for you.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy
First definition.
a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

You've obviously insulted me before. "I only live in one (true) reality," which is basically saying I don't. But, needless to say, I ignore these things.

The act maybe different, but the consequece is the same: bot = ban, murder = prison

The heart IS A PUMP, it is not analogy. Youre refering to a different form of analogy's definition.
You are talking about THIS:
Two structures in biology are said to be analogous if they perform the same or similar function by a similar mechanism but evolved separately. Similar structures may have evolved through different pathways, a process known as convergent evolution, or may be homologous.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy (biology)
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This is the form of the definition of analogy being used in the sex analogy:
drawing a comparison in order to show a similarity in some way between things that are otherwise dissimilar. For example: Hand is to glove as foot is to sock.
Sex is to (the enjoyables of this game, be it pvp, or alchemy, or jobbing, or whatever), as maintaning a relationship is to grinding. Grinding sux, if you think grinding is similar to sex in SOME way as to compare the 2, omg, you have a very poor perception on sex, grinding is boring and monotonous. Sex is exciting and fun. Grinding is a chore that one must do to achieve their goal. Sex is not a chore, but the equivalent to a goal or prize. The chore is handling everything else but the sex. GO LEARN SOMETHING AND STOP MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF!


And clearly your ignoring my insults, that’s why you bring them up to show me how you have maturely ignored them. Good for you, im glad your mature enough to over look and ignore my razzes. Thanx for telling me.

edit:Ok silo your right just like eatting = poopping in the same way speeding = ticket. Look silo they both have a cause that leads to an outcome, so they must be similar.

ArchYourFace, you're dodging the logic, now. A heart is a pumplike organ of blood circulation, composed mainly of rhythmically contractile smooth muscle, located in the chest between the lungs and slightly to the left and consisting of four chambers: a right atrium that receives blood returning from the body via the superior and inferior vena cavae, a right ventricle that pumps the blood through the pulmonary artery to the lungs for oxygenation, a left atrium that receives the oxygenated blood via the pulmonary veins and passes it through the mitral valve, and a left ventricle that pumps the oxygenated blood, via the aorta, throughout the body.

I didn't have the time to write out an definition of the heart by my own writing, so I used dictionary.com's definition.

Wasn't it obvious enough I was referring to a metal pump, such as mechanical?

This isnt a biology lesson, just cause you can copy and paste some shit about the heart makes no difference and simply makes you look desperate to sound intelligent. You are referring to a biological definition of analogy were supposed to be taking about a literary analogy. There is a difference. Also the reference to a heart being a pump is a simile if im not mistaken, please go ctrl+c something else and ctrl+v it into this forum so you can sound smart. You took an entirely different definition to a word than what is being spoken of and tried to use it as the backbone of your flimsy arguemnt, it has failed move on.

Wasn't that the my very basis of the argument was because of definition? I try to give a better understanding, that murdering is comparable with botting, because of the consequences. Something that shouldn't be taken lightly. Sure, the two actions aren't similar directly from what doing, the intention. But, that wasn't the analogy. It's the same explanation I gave with the puppy analogy.

A pump can be many things, a water pump, an air pump, which is why I've stated the metal. When you compare a metal pump to a heart, it can become an analogy to try and give understanding on what the heart does. This clearly states that you're trying to point out that murdering and botting cannot be compared, just because of some sort of aspect that differs. And that isn't the point of the analogy.

Zing, don't bother. People start arguing semantics when they can't argue the issue. Don't be distracted by his feigning incomprehension. It's not worth it.