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 Post subject: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:03 am 
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I am posting this after having read Ice's post about botting, and Spader was banned for bot support. Isn't this an open place to talk about silkroad and how botting affects the game? He was stating his views. When did this become wrong?

Maybe, the Silkroad Forums have gone too far in their bans and have cut down with too much power. Maybe its time we all took a step back and took a look to see what is happening with silkroad.

There will ALWAYS be bots. This is unavoidable. You can ban them every week, but there will be new bots come next week. This "WAR ON BOTS" what is it? It seems like a repeating circle that will NEVER end. Maybe the answer to the game is not to ban bots. If silkroad added a bot on their website, what would come of these forums? If I told you that joymax actually supports a bot company and receives profit from them what would you do?

Silkroad has changed from the day it was released. It is no longer that game that we originally knew, where there were a lot of lvl 30's and 40's with no bots to be found.


PLEASE, I dont mean to start this thread as a flaming thread in any way. I would like to have a sophisticated discussion as to what is RIGHT and WRONG. What is TOO FAR. What is TOO many rules. If you take the time to read this, I thank you. If you flame me, that is fine, because you will be expressing your opinion. I do not mean to anger anyone with this post, only to start a discussion to better understand what we are facing.

Again, thxs for reading. I would like to see some of the moderator's point of views on this, especially Barotix's after his involvement with the ban on Spader. Dont wanna put you on the spot Barotix, if you dont wanna answer that is fine, if you wish to only pm me, that is fine.

I believe its time we talked about the problem rather than ban anyone that discusses botting in a positive manner.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:24 am 
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We obviously can't stop bots entirely but we can make an effort to create a legit community. Spader was always a dick and he had it coming. Stating your views is one thing but all out supporting bots is another.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:43 am 
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No. No discussion. Been discussed before. No one really cares.


/End thread.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:25 am 
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Argonaut wrote:
No. No discussion. Been discussed before. No one really cares.
/End thread.

Pretty much.

At the beginning, botters said "I cheat. I'm lazy. I know it's wrong but I'm weak." THAT I could respect for the truth.

Then came the rationalizers who said "I bot but it's okay because...
...I have a life."
...everyone else does it."
...Joymax doesn't care."
...the game is too hard."
...etc, etc, etc.

Finally came ICE who said, with a straight face, "botting isn't cheating at all." Can you fcking believe that shit?

You know what's next? "Legits are the cheaters because all that time spent handgrinding builds muscle memory and knowledge of your build that bots can't get."

So yeah, your discussion of the myriad self-deceiving rationalizations about why botting is great and legits are idiots can just bite me. No amount of "discussion" is gonna make botting acceptable. It ruined this great fcking game.


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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:08 am 
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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:59 am 
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XuChu wrote:
You can't stop the admins, even the Nazi card doesn't work...


mm??

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:49 pm 
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"It ruined this great fcking game."

I really didn't want to open that door...but if the game is ruined, why does everyone still play...?

(Rhetorical question, I'm still playing too)

Oh, and to the topic starter, SRF will ban bots, who cares about the bots in-game, there are still legits on each server fighting for what they like...a challenge.

What's the fun in botting?

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:03 pm 
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pr0klobster wrote:
...but if the game is ruined, why does everyone still play...?

LOL...ummm...cuz even a ruined great game is still really good? :wink:

and @ Priam...I think he means that even calling the mods Nazis won't keep them from banning you if you bot.


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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Argonaut wrote:
No. No discussion. Been discussed before. No one really cares.


/End thread.


What is that supposed to mean? "No one really cares". Cares about what exactly? I think the issue is a very valid one.

First of all I DONT BOT anymore, I have dicarded my old botting chars aswell.
Secondly I AM NOT PRO BOTTERS, but i am not against all of them either.

If you guys bothered to read what IC3 was saying, you would have realised that he is not pro-botters. I agree with everything IC3 has said. He wanted the convey the point that not all Botters are scum. They bot because unlike some of you people, they dont have the time to put into the game. Therefore botting gives them an easy way to still enjoy the game. Alot of botters are babysitters, whats the problem with that? I'm not saying that i am pro botting, because obviously the game would be a much better community if it was 100% legit. This war against bots will never end, there will always be Bots on Silkroad unless the game gets bought out by another Company. Therefore why not learn to live with them? I am in a botting guild.. And up until recently was master of it. Its extremely active, extremely strong and moreover extremely fun. Your drawing the line between Botters | Legit. This shouldn't be how it is. Botters and Legitimate players should be able to play together, and they should both accept the way that each other choose to play the game. The line should be drawn between Idiots (24/7 AFKers / Goldbotters / KSers) | Everyone else. If i didn't start off this game botting, i would never have met half the people i did. Thanks to botting i've met some of the nicest and most generous people I have ever come across online. It is also thanks to them that our guild and community is still going. I am quitting silkroad now anyway, that doesn't mean that i will lose connections with these people though. I still play with them, and would at some point like to meet some of them IRL. So what if they bot? It doesn't change them as people. Botting guilds can be just as fun as Legit guilds, if not more.

In all honesty i am sick of hearing how great Venus is. So dont turn this into a Venus related discussion.

Edit: Shouldnt this be in General Discussion btw?

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:34 pm 
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So what if they bot? It doesn't change them as people. Botting guilds can be just as fun as Legit guilds, if not more.


You see, if you're botting, doesn't that imply the computer is doing the work for you? Why then would you be sitting by your keyboard...?

I've been in bot parties before. No one says anything in party chat at all. I never get a reply when I say "hello". Because they're all AFK.

These people you are talking about aren't botters then...they're "babysitters".

And yes, it's all what you're describing, botting doesn't make them bad people, blah blah, some of that could be true. But if they're willing to cheat in a game ONLY to get ahead, how could I trust them in real life? What does that say for their personalities and willpower?

I can't see how a true "botting" guild could be fun. If people are there at the keyboard, great, you can talk in chat or Xfire or what have you while you're playing.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:47 pm 
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I personally think that SRF knows they can't control the game, but a few people only play because of the forums. When they get discovered in a legit community for botting it basically defaces them and all their sense of pride is lost. A lot of respect for them too is later lost by the members of the server who soon realise the person they may have looked up to as a legit role model isn't so legit.

I personally like what SRF is doing, that is taking a stance against bots even though it be in their/our own community.

Well done SRF Mods and Staff. :love:

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:18 pm 
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Ah, you reminded me of the excuses I grouped into "etc, etc."

"I bot but it's okay because...

...I'm a cool person in real life."

...I'm not a goldbot. Goldbots are the real problem."

Any more? You're on a roll.


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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:50 pm 
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That's what made SRF a unique forum.
If u want a simple fan site sro forum, go visit gamerzplanet or elitepvpers. The rule there is less strict. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:16 pm 
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pr0klobster wrote:
Quote:
So what if they bot? It doesn't change them as people. Botting guilds can be just as fun as Legit guilds, if not more.


You see, if you're botting, doesn't that imply the computer is doing the work for you? Why then would you be sitting by your keyboard...?

I've been in bot parties before. No one says anything in party chat at all. I never get a reply when I say "hello". Because they're all AFK.

These people you are talking about aren't botters then...they're "babysitters".

And yes, it's all what you're describing, botting doesn't make them bad people, blah blah, some of that could be true. But if they're willing to cheat in a game ONLY to get ahead, how could I trust them in real life? What does that say for their personalities and willpower?

I can't see how a true "botting" guild could be fun. If people are there at the keyboard, great, you can talk in chat or Xfire or what have you while you're playing.


You are arguing against the point i was rasing, the fact that they bot says nothing at all for their personalities or willpower.

And ok, you may have misunderstood me. We are not a true botting guild. All of us are either Legit or babysit our bots. We are also nearly all from England / Europe. This means that it doesnt affect our community if people bot their characters through the night, or through college hours etc. It is for this reason that our community is just as fun as any other guild.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Infect wrote:
...the fact that they bot says nothing at all for their personalities or willpower...

:?

I'm not sure I understand how cheating doesn't reflect upon a person's character. Have we gotten all touchy-feely with our precious little snowflakes that we make excuses for all their actions and don't hold them accountable for anything? Have we become so morally ambiguous that all actions can be explained away with a persuasive enough rationalization? Sorry. I don't buy it.


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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:28 pm 
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Infect wrote:
And ok, you may have misunderstood me. We are not a true botting guild. All of us are either Legit or babysit our bots. We are also nearly all from England / Europe. This means that it doesnt affect our community if people bot their characters through the night, or through college hours etc. It is for this reason that our community is just as fun as any other guild.


You're not a 'true botting guild' because your members babysit their bots? What's the difference if you're babysitting or afk botting? You're still botting. You might as well afk bot and chat with your guildmates on vent, or AOL Instant Messenger rather than in guild chat. It'd be the same thing. Still botting.

I was unaware there are 'true botting guilds' and 'non-true botting guilds'... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:16 pm 
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Yeah, "true" botting guild...I used that as opposed to "babysitters".

good point, a bot is a bot. <shrug>

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:53 pm 
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Everyone has cheated or will cheat at least once in their life, people saying that cheating in a game reflects on who you are as a person REALLY need to get out more.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:21 pm 
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0l3n wrote:
Everyone has cheated or will cheat at least once in their life, people saying that cheating in a game reflects on who you are as a person REALLY need to get out more.

"Everyone does it so its fine." Guess that answers my question. Ol3n is a precious little snowflake.


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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:45 pm 
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0l3n wrote:
Everyone has cheated or will cheat at least once in their life, people saying that cheating in a game reflects on who you are as a person REALLY need to get out more.


+1 couldnt agree more. What you do on the internet doesnt reflect who you are in real life (in most cases)

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:47 pm 
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Which is exactly the point me and IC3 were trying to make.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:52 pm 
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So the anonymity of the internet means what? Cheating doesn't count? It's not really cheating if people don't know your name? You do realize that you are actually interacting with other humans, despite the fact that you are alone in your basement, right? You guys will seriously rationalize anything to not feel guilty about being cheaters. Listen to yourselves sometime. You guys are a riot.

I'm just gonna repost what dom said before and why this discussion is, as Argo said, totally pointless:

dom wrote:
There's a misunderstanding that banning botters is to create a better community. That's completely wrong. The well-being of the community comes second, after the fact that the administration searches to have a legit community to support the in-game legit community of which most of us are part of.

I realize there's a lot of closet botters on this forum, but with every refresh of the exposed botters section they slowly get banned. They come back, we ban their IP - locking out the proxy for every other botter to use. This isn't 100% completely effective, but maintaining a stern stance on the issue is tipping the population composition balance towards the legit side.

The most QQ'ing I see, more than anything, is botters and bot supporters reassuring themselves that cheating at the game is fine, because they have real lives. The statement in itself is a contradiction and they have no right to be angry. Legits that complain about botters have a good reason to be pissed off, and i'm not going to silence them because they're discontent. Atleast they're trying to do something about it.

Every legit or legit supporter is a moderate on the issue. It's the 10 year old kids, and the crazy ones, that cry in threads about anyone being 90 is a botter. On the other hand, I love all the claims that botters make. You know, they have real lives, but they spend 3-6+ hours a day sitting infront of their computer babysitting their bot whilst posting on this forum that they have lives.

Add to that the fact that most botters have the wit and intelligence of a hedgehog with downsyndrome. Let me give some examples:

lahka13 wrote:
omg LEGITS HAVE NO LIFE HUNTING 24/7 LIVING WITH THEIR MOM. GET A Farking BOT AND GO OUTSIDE. LEGITS ARE G.AY. THEY HAVE NO LIFE AND I BET 95% OF SRF PPL BOT . NO LEVELS WITHOUT BOT. ALL THE LEGITS HAVE NO LIFE. GET A F.UCKING BOT. BYE BYE U GUYS CAN REPLY ALL U WANT I WILL BE JUST BOTTING WHILE U GUYS SPEND TIME WRITING S.HIT ON HERE AND GRINDING LOL LEGITS CAN SUCK MY B.ALLS. F.UCK ALL LEGITS GET A LIFE BlTCHES!! HAHHAHAH

^Apparently botting makes up for personal short comings.

fastforce wrote:
I BOT FUCKERZ

^Coming out of the closet is a HUGE confidence boost. It helps when you're craving for attention too - notice how all of them always follow the "I'M A BOTTER, LOOK AT ME, <insults go here>!" formula.

Impulse wrote:
Im using bot since 2006, i made over 20 lvl70-90 char, im also using testosterone and no-dc client
oh and i buy 300m gold every week
and i sell my chars on ebay and make money
hahaha
BANN ME

^It seems with botters there's a need for them to prove to themselves that there's justification for botting. Look at the post above: he starts with "I cheat", he follows with a justification (which is most definately for his own morality, since no one really cares about why he does it) "but it's ok because I sell my chars and make money", and ends with a "lol i'm better than you".

And of course, my personal favorite, and the ultimate example of hypocrisy and mental disability:

StuckUP wrote:
I botted so what. Sue me? I'm not as stupid as to keep this act going, I botted so what. I was stupid to say no, I didn't bot. So what I ask you just ban me. SRF is not worth all this bs I got through. I don't care about justifying my reasons bc you really don't need to hear them and if I chose bot I chose to bot. BTW you Avalon freaks need to go out more there is more to life than playing 18 hours a day on a stupid game that is not worth it and after that trying to get the dirt on SRF members. And in doing so backstabbing their friends.

Like most of the, brings up that botting is not a big deal. Being the cunning person that she is, says she won't justify why she bots, but leaves with a note that legits need to go out more, and there's more to life than playing 18 hours a day (coming from a person who had 20-30 posts a day and is an adult who argued with 13 year old kids about trivial issues).

So what have we learned? For starters, most botters are insecure; instead of just saying "I bot, I choose to no longer post on this forum", they follow a "I bot because I have a life, which you don't, i'm better than you" to justify their decisions (which shows a lack of confidence). Secondly, they feel a need to throw in a buffer between them and legits. They say legits have no lives, and in reality they waste as much time as them nerding out there lives; so what do they do? They throw in a buffer, usually real life but as one of them showed, money too. And lastly, they're hypocritical. Which should be self explanatory.

This is a game. It's an MMORPG where developing your character IS the game. In games like these, especially the grindfest that is SRO, you literally have to WORK until you reach the point where you can enjoy your character. When you decide that you want to skip all that and bot, you're making a decision that ruins the game for every player that effectively WORKS through the game like it was made to be played. When you bot, you're runing the game in it's most basic form. You're being selfish and taking away the value of the time that legits have put into the game because they choose to have moral fibre and integrity. You can try to reassure yourself by saying that the reason you bot is because you have a life, but it all comes down to the point that you're sitting infront of a computer for hours a day, playing a cheap korean rip off of a game (or even worse, watching a program play it for you), posting on a gaming forum that caters mostly to preteens, and you still feel the need to pump up your ego and confidence because you feel ashamed and you care about what these kids think.

When you care enough to feel compelled to justify your decisions because you care about what the people (the nerds, the no lifers, the ones you claim to not be) think, you really have to question who's the one with no life.


Last edited by non ego man on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:02 pm 
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For me this section is retarded... I've seen botters getting botters banned because they have ingame vendettas. Legits with nothing better to do, and botters turning themselves in. Funny but retarded.

On a side note it seems if your not pro legit you run the risk of being a so called bot supporter. I like to call myself neutral because I simply don't give a shit.


Last edited by Phaidra on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:03 pm 
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non ego man wrote:
So the anonymity of the internet means what? Cheating doesn't count? It's not really cheating if people don't know your name? You do realize that you are actually interacting with other humans, despite the fact that you are alone in your basement, right? You guys will seriously rationalize anything to not feel guilty about being cheaters. Listen to yourselves sometime. You guys are a riot.


- Everyone knows my name on our server. Why does that make any difference?
- Babysitters still interact with other humans lol. At least in our community they do - otherwise they wouldnt be there. I dont think it is fair to say they dont interact with Humans, when infact the main reason is usually because they like to go out and have a social life unlike some people.
- So your saying Botters sit in their basements while Legits dont. On what evidence are you developing this arguement?
- I'm sorry that you have never taken any risks before and cheated. However not all of us can be Mr.Perfect like you. Try getting out more, this might help your situation.


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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:07 pm 
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Infect wrote:
non ego man wrote:
So the anonymity of the internet means what? Cheating doesn't count? It's not really cheating if people don't know your name? You do realize that you are actually interacting with other humans, despite the fact that you are alone in your basement, right? You guys will seriously rationalize anything to not feel guilty about being cheaters. Listen to yourselves sometime. You guys are a riot.


- Everyone knows my name on our server. Why does that make any difference?
- Babysitters still interact with other humans lol. At least in our community they do - otherwise they wouldnt be there. I dont think it is fair to say they dont interact with Humans, when infact the main reason is usually because they like to go out and have a social life unlike some people.
- So your saying Botters sit in their basements while Legits dont. On what evidence are you developing this arguement?
- I'm sorry that you have never taken any risks before and cheated. However not all of us can be Mr.Perfect like you. Try getting out more, this might help your situation.


Don't bite to there shit talk, just because your not pro legit like them means nothing. I think you're very much like me you simply don't care. Most of my ingame freinds bot and infact most of my server does. It's not like when I meet a new freind I ask "Do you bot" and when they say yes I go OMG NOOB FUCKOFF AWAY FROM ME I just say fair enough if that's how you wanna play so be it.


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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:10 pm 
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Phaidra wrote:
Infect wrote:
non ego man wrote:
So the anonymity of the internet means what? Cheating doesn't count? It's not really cheating if people don't know your name? You do realize that you are actually interacting with other humans, despite the fact that you are alone in your basement, right? You guys will seriously rationalize anything to not feel guilty about being cheaters. Listen to yourselves sometime. You guys are a riot.


- Everyone knows my name on our server. Why does that make any difference?
- Babysitters still interact with other humans lol. At least in our community they do - otherwise they wouldnt be there. I dont think it is fair to say they dont interact with Humans, when infact the main reason is usually because they like to go out and have a social life unlike some people.
- So your saying Botters sit in their basements while Legits dont. On what evidence are you developing this arguement?
- I'm sorry that you have never taken any risks before and cheated. However not all of us can be Mr.Perfect like you. Try getting out more, this might help your situation.


Don't bite to there shit talk, just because your not pro legit like them means nothing. I think you're very much like me you simply don't care. Most of my ingame freinds bot and infact most of my server does. It's not like when I meet a new freind I ask "Do you bot" and when they say yes I go OMG NOOB FUCKOFF AWAY FROM ME I just say fair enough if that's how you wanna play so be it.


+1 This is my exact attitude. However some people seem to have a problem with others expressing this point of view.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:11 pm 
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non ego man wrote:
So the anonymity of the internet means what? Cheating doesn't count? It's not really cheating if people don't know your name? You do realize that you are actually interacting with other humans, despite the fact that you are alone in your basement, right? You guys will seriously rationalize anything to not feel guilty about being cheaters. Listen to yourselves sometime. You guys are a riot.


You just dont get it. Let me provide you with an example.

Tim is a skinny dorky kid who is quiet and stays to himself in the real world.

BUT

when he plays sro he is a lv 90 sun s/s with full sun set and he pwns everyone. He talks the most shit is the biggest asshole on the server.

Dont you realize that the internet is a place to get away. its a place to be something your not, in tim's case to be the badass hes not in real life.

That is the point, nothing is being rationalized, its the truth of the internet.

And yes i take the same idc attitude as the above. I dont care if you bot or dont as long as ur a cool person ill talk to u or help u out or w/e. But if your an ass or w/e fk off

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Last edited by chesticles on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:15 pm 
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You guys gotta stop telling people on a forum to get out more you sound retarded.

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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:20 pm 
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*sigh*

I understand completely.

I edited my previous post to include dom's comments.

Focus on the last few paragraphs.


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 Post subject: Re: An Interesting Discussion.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:21 pm 
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I dont understand the point of the thread are you asking for bots not to get banned on the forums? and that botting is ok?

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