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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:25 pm 
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JustKill wrote:
us sent tanks ? i wonder why i never seen an american tank in any video of history or video about stalingrad the weapons that russian soldiers had was only PSSH And mosin nagant rifle there was no american weapons there -_-


Perhaps you're missing something. Read this entire article through, then try posting again. US did send some tanks, but primarily trucks (Dodges mostly) and locomotives/trains, other supplies, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

edit: I'll make it even easier for you:

The list below is the amount of war matériel shipped to the Soviet Union through the Lend-Lease program from its beginning until 30 September 1945.[citation needed]
Aircraft 14,795
Tanks 7,056
Jeeps 51,503
Trucks 375,883
Motorcycles 35,170
Tractors 8,071
Guns 8,218
Machine guns 131,633
Explosives 345,735 tons
Building equipment valued $10,910,000
Railroad freight cars 11,155
Locomotives 1,981
Cargo ships 90
Submarine hunters 105
Torpedo boats 197
Ship engines 7,784
Food supplies 4,478,000 tons
Machines and equipment $1,078,965,000
Non-ferrous metals 802,000 tons
Petroleum products 2,670,000 tons
Chemicals 842,000 tons
Cotton 106,893,000 tons
Leather 49,860 tons
Tires 3,786,000
Army boots 15,417,001 pairs

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:51 pm 
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Still ive never seen an american tank or guns in the russian side i see only PSSH T-34 T-30 tanks and mosin nagant rifles

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:38 pm 
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JustKill wrote:
Still ive never seen an american tank or guns in the russian side i see only PSSH T-34 T-30 tanks and mosin nagant rifles


Of course, since you've never seen an American tank, then they didn't exist...

Anyway, it also could be because Russia produced so many of it's own tanks...40,000 T-34's alone, so it stands to reason you might not have seen American tanks in any videos. Not to mention, propaganda may not have allowed that...similar to Russia raising the flag at the Reichstag, it had been raised two days earlier and then re-staged. Not to mention having the photo redone to remove the watches the Russian soldiers had looted. (Keep in mind, I'm not saying Russia is bad, just that is what happened)

Some reprints after I googled. Personally, I like the T-34.

"Russia adopted the T-34/76 medium tank in December of 1939. This breakthrough vehicle was designed to be "shell proof" with welded 45mm frontal armor sloped at 60 degrees. It was also designed to be easy to mass-produce, maintain and repair and this proved to be perhaps its greatest advantage over German armor.

Only 1,225 T-34's had been built by the time the Germans invaded the USSR. Still, when the T-34 first went into action in June 1941 it was a nasty surprise to the German Panzers. Production was increased and the T-34 soon out numbered as well as out performed the German Mk. III and early (Ausf A-F) Mk. IV Panzer tanks that were its main adversary in the "Great Patriotic War" during the period 1941-1943. Later in the war the Mk. IV was up-gunned and the thickness of its armor increased to make it a worthy adversary for the T-34.

The T-34/76 gets its name from the 76mm main cannon with which it was equipped. This gun was perfectly satisfactory against the Panzer III and early Mk. IV, but inadequate to penetrate the frontal armor of the later German Panzer IV's (late G, H, and J's), Tiger and Panther tanks at long range. For use against enemy troops there were hull and turret mounted machine guns.

The T-34's shortcoming in main battery firepower was solved by the introduction of an 85mm main gun, mounted in a turret designed for the KV-1C tank, which made the T-34/85 one of the world's great tanks. The new gun gave the T-34/85 the punch it needed, along with overwhelming numerical superiority, to dominate the Eastern Front and drive the Germans back to the Reich. The new turret was more resistant to German shell hits, offering the Soviet crew better protection. A five-speed transmission was also adopted at this time.

The T-34 was tough, maneuverable, reliable and capable of traversing almost any type of terrain. It was, overall, the best Allied tank of the war, generally pretty comparable to the late models of the German Mk. IV Panzer. By the end of the war some 40,000 T-34's had been produced.

It remained in service far longer than any other WW II vintage tank. T34's served in Korea, where U.S. soldiers found that their sloped armor made them almost impervious to light anti-tank weapons. In fact, I understand that T34's are still in service with some minor powers, a 60 year record of service approached by no other tank."

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:14 pm 
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maybe russia sold those american stuffs to other countries,our economy at the end of the war was totally devastated we had to rebuilt cities defenses army paying the army the wifes that lost their husband etc :D

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:25 pm 
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JustKill wrote:
maybe russia sold those american stuffs to other countries,our economy at the end of the war was totally devastated we had to rebuilt cities defenses army paying the army the wifes that lost their husband etc :D


It's possible, although it seems unlikely. Germany's economy was equally devastated and we loaned them money...

My point was simply that you don't seem to have all the relevant information to continue this discussion. For that matter, none of us really do; the event did happen over 60 years ago. However, certain things are well-documented and that's what I was getting at.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:23 pm 
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People saying stuff about russia should keep in mind america is one of the bigger propaganda "sellers". And don't use wikipedia as a source.
Also, keep in mind, history is written by the winners, america is a winner (:D) so naturally I'm sure they embellished a bit.

They sure as hell helped out ALOT but I think that list of things given to Russia is WAY exaggerated, unless that was a list of not just stuff given to Russia, but to all of the Allies.

THAT many tanks, THAT many tons of food (especially), my ass.

If it was to all of the Allies combined, it would make sense, but I don't think they sent all of that.
Btw, I am actually serious on this one, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:13 am 
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yea like i said ive never seen any american weapon tank plane in the world war 2 at russian front in history videos ( real footages)

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:18 am 
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Stop discarding historical facts, who are you to do that? Rewriting history on a game forum, without any solid material, cool.

America DID ship that many war materials to the soviet union. Roosevelt simply was allowed to ship anything he wanted to country's whoms defense was vital to the U.S. They did this from 1941 - 1945, and used several artic routes to get it all there. There was a repayment plan, but no-one knows exactly what and how much they'd have gotten in return.

It's was kinda covert, since they even used Soviet ships to transport it all, later in the war.

America had a lot of (older) materials, which at first they didn't need as they had no intent of getting involved in anything. It's a big country, with loads of war production that days.

The list is fairly accurate.

The article from which he got the list should tell you everything you need to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:59 pm 
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Why we will need those thanks if the T-34 got created on 40K Numbers at 1942 the guns we have enough the motorcycle we dont even need the trucks we have enough of them dude all those shits i dont know where it have been gone but NEVER SEEN ANYTHING OF it in any video or history film at TV
usa itself got their ass raped by Japan on Luft Golf battle they even begged stalin to attack japan after the end of war with germany on 1945 june 5 at june 6 russia declared war on japan as response to the usa begg that they couldnt handle them anymore so they sent nukes to scare them.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:12 pm 
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JustKill wrote:
Why we will need those thanks if the T-34 got created on 40K Numbers at 1942 the guns we have enough the motorcycle we dont even need the trucks we have enough of them dude all those shits i dont know where it have been gone but NEVER SEEN ANYTHING OF it in any video or history film at TV
usa itself got their ass raped by Japan on Luft Golf battle they even begged stalin to attack japan after the end of war with germany on 1945 june 5 at june 6 russia declared war on japan as response to the usa begg that they couldnt handle them anymore so they sent nukes to scare them.


So just because your ignorant, and haven't seen anything, it's untrue?

That's the russian attitude.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Rainigul wrote:
People saying stuff about russia should keep in mind america is one of the bigger propaganda "sellers". And don't use wikipedia as a source.
Also, keep in mind, history is written by the winners, america is a winner (:D) so naturally I'm sure they embellished a bit.

They sure as hell helped out ALOT but I think that list of things given to Russia is WAY exaggerated, unless that was a list of not just stuff given to Russia, but to all of the Allies.

THAT many tanks, THAT many tons of food (especially), my ass.

If it was to all of the Allies combined, it would make sense, but I don't think they sent all of that.
Btw, I am actually serious on this one, lol.


*sigh* Show me where I said America isn't pushing its own propaganda, either. And please recall that Russia in World War II wasn't exactly forthcoming with undoctored pictures, and it would not look good for them to show American supplies in use for the war effort. I'm sure Britain and Russia and other allies assisted the US in turn, but the fact is, the US was able to produce a lot of war materials that other countries couldn't.

Wikipedia is just one of the quicker ways to show how much was sent, there are many other sources - some not available on the Internet - but since several people refuse to believe that much was sent, why should I bother trying to prove you wrong? I already know you are incorrect.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:30 pm 
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How u want european countries and russia to create more while they are on war and their factories geting destroyed everyday oh like america is something big while they aint just japan did pwnt them at june 6they started to begging stalin to open a new front with japan
and oh yeah wikipedia can be edited so its not a a true source

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:40 pm 
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i lol'ed on how you bring up that time US lost to Japan.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:37 pm 
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JustKill wrote:
How u want european countries and russia to create more while they are on war and their factories geting destroyed everyday oh like america is something big while they aint just japan did pwnt them at june 6they started to begging stalin to open a new front with japan
and oh yeah wikipedia can be edited so its not a a true source


Wikipedia can be trusted when it comes to historic facts, and wikipedia is not the only source. Stop being a dick. You've been proven wrong millions of times.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:51 pm 
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Burningwolf wrote:
i lol'ed on how you bring up that time US lost to Japan.

dude just get out please u dont know shit without nukes us had lost

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:15 pm 
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no one can be this ignorant can they? wait no this is just stupidlity now...

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:32 pm 
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JustKill wrote:
Burningwolf wrote:
i lol'ed on how you bring up that time US lost to Japan.

dude just get out please u dont know shit without nukes us had lost



Not really.

Even on a day like pearl harbor. The Americans were not even near ready when they were attacked, and the U.S destroyed MOST of their airplanes. Picture an all out war? (Japanese had kamikaze fighters, killing their OWN men, sometimes these kamikaze fighters aimed for a specific target on the American ships, and crashed their planes without killing anyone but themselves.)



Attacking pearl harbor was a stupid move, I don't think a country, during this time, could of been more stupider.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:44 pm 
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if germany won the war vs russia and england USA would have been done and destroyed.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:47 pm 
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JustKill wrote:
if germany won the war vs russia and england USA would have been done and destroyed.


rubbish, just like all your other posts.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:49 pm 
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Dude u know that seriously i dont give shit about ur posts? if u want to waste ur time i dont care at all

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:23 pm 
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JustKill wrote:
Dude u know that seriously i dont give shit about ur posts? if u want to waste ur time i dont care at all


That's the problem, you don't care about what anyone is saying. Your missing everyone's points, are neglecting history, and are making up your own version of what has happened. So indeed, why bother?

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:07 pm 
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JustKill wrote:
if germany won the war vs russia and england USA would have been done and destroyed.
Germany already lost when they tryed to take Britain and couldn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:10 pm 
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JustKill wrote:
Burningwolf wrote:
i lol'ed on how you bring up that time US lost to Japan.

dude just get out please u dont know shit without nukes us had lost


But the thing is; they had nukes. Thus... they won?

Edit: This was a World War, Britain and it's allies were the ones that helped win the war. America just put and end to it all :) The best countries vs. the most annoying (Germany).

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:18 pm 
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this was over awhile ago...

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:21 pm 
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Some of you people are whack about some of your ideas.

USA would have won against Japan, no contest. America is really good with military stuff, they always have people willing to fight and they have great military production.

I'd like to see a actual CITED source for that list of supplies though, that could have been written by anyone. I don't care it could be written by anyone, but the fact is that source in uncited, so I don't believe it. That's an ASSLOAD of supplies, and to a country that America hates. They may have been on the allies side, but I think America has pretty much always hated Russia.

@that one guy
I never said you didn't say America had propoganda, I never said Russia didn't shop picture, but I'm sure America did too. The thing is, you need to have a source from both sides, or a third party source in order for it to be reliable. If it's a Russian source, they'll understate what they got to make it seem like they didn't need as much help. If it's an American source, they'll overstate what they sent in order to make it seem like they're kinder.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:25 pm 
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Rainigul wrote:
Some of you people are whack about some of your ideas.

USA would have won against Japan, no contest. America is really good with military stuff, they always have people willing to fight and they have great military production.

I'd like to see a actual CITED source for that list of supplies though, that could have been written by anyone. I don't care it could be written by anyone, but the fact is that source in uncited, so I don't believe it. That's an ASSLOAD of supplies, and to a country that America hates. They may have been on the allies side, but I think America has pretty much always hated Russia.


I bet 90% of the people here arguing about WWII never have read a book on it. If you really want to debate WWII, why don't you guys skim a book on it and then come back here, because a lot of you are making yourselves look retarded

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:37 pm 
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Jstar1 wrote:

I bet 90% of the people here arguing about WWII never have read a book on it. If you really want to debate WWII, why don't you guys skim a book on it and then come back here, because a lot of you are making yourselves look retarded


Howso, I've taken a class before on it, and in my history class we're in this age. I doubt anyone else has read anything on it, for they're not giving sources. You can say you took a shit on hitler's head but it means nothing unless you have a source, doesn't even have to be reliable, at least show me something than a random wikipedia article with no source cited.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:42 pm 
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Rainigul wrote:
I'd like to see a actual CITED source for that list of supplies though, that could have been written by anyone. I don't care it could be written by anyone, but the fact is that source in uncited, so I don't believe it. That's an ASSLOAD of supplies, and to a country that America hates. They may have been on the allies side, but I think America has pretty much always hated Russia.


As much as America hates Russia, I think that USA hated Germany more. This is an opinion, the source: My head. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:43 pm 
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Snoopy wrote:
Rainigul wrote:
I'd like to see a actual CITED source for that list of supplies though, that could have been written by anyone. I don't care it could be written by anyone, but the fact is that source in uncited, so I don't believe it. That's an ASSLOAD of supplies, and to a country that America hates. They may have been on the allies side, but I think America has pretty much always hated Russia.


As much as America hates Russia, I think that USA hated Germany more. This is an opinion, the source: My head. :)


Hence: Why they gave no supplies to the Germans and instead killed them.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Harbor
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:59 pm 
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^was kinda the point I was getting at.

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