Silkroad Online Forums

i saw the first video very clever but time is infinite couse it wont ever stop and will always go on, you can argue that time on an object is finite but that is a different argument you can apply time to nothing = profit

So here is a question: if God does exist, what is more likely, creating the universe with his hands (matter touch matter) or with magic (make smt poped out from an empty space)? Which is faster and which is more efficient?

Of course you won't argue, because there is nothing to argue about anymore. The fact that there is an underlying hypocrisy in the bible is enough to rattle anyone's mind.

if you dont mind, can you please post 1 story of that?

what story..?

killing gays, aduleteres, and people who worship other gods.

Wars dont count.

Your talking with peoiple that are no older than 30

I'm sure that if you go through 50 threads you'll come to the conclusion
You have no conclusion

u will find the answer when this thread's post count reaches infinity-1

read Deuteronomy 13:13, 13:14, 13:15, etc. and it talks about God telling you to destroy an entire town if one person from that town worships another god

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Deu/Deu013.html

iam gonna grnadpa take this one, cuz iam completely blank

what's there to tell? god's a jealous li'l bitch

i beg to differ

in the ten commandments it says "i'm a jealous god"

no it does not.

It also says to kill their livestock.

iam gonna have to read the whole chapter, and iam guessing they are at war with them

1st commandment

So because he was an atheist, had a Jewish background, and is now born again his arguments automatically become valid.... um No, venom fails. He uses rumors that have been debunked to support his speculation and the premise of most of his videos are: "Atheist are afraid to admit there is a higher power, Science is evil, Darwin is Satan's spawn and doesn't think evolution is real, Giants existed but the flood destroyed them, and the Earth is 4000 years old." He's very charismatic and intelligent but his sources aren't credible and he tends to straw man every non-Christian that argues against his views. It's a terrible way to send your point across but the less educated viewers will eat every word of it.

1]Atheist are afraid to admit there is a higher power: A generalization that he relies on time and time again to make his point. The fact that he takes the atheist that are obsessed with religion and bulks them in with the one's that just want to be left alone is enough to deem that argument incorrect due to fallacy.
2]Science is evil. To him science is Satan trying to lure Christians away from Christianity. He is constantly using mined quotes that are taken out of context to prove his over zealous point of view. Because of the way he brings his point across his seconds argument (Science is evil) is rendered wrong due to fallacy. I admit, evolution isn't what I would call very scientific because it can't be tested.
3]He uses quotes that are taken out of context to "prove" that Darwin didn't think evolution was real and he calls evolution the work of Satan (refer to science is evil).
4]Giants existed but the flood destroyed them: He uses images he found on the internet to prove this. The problem is those images were all proven to be hoaxes. Obviously those that don't do their own research will eat every word he says.
5]He can't even back this point up.

Born again Christians tend to be the most zealous. Makes it very difficult to have a discussion with them.

In the first video he primes the viewer so that they agree with him. The way he argues is so annoying, fallacies and lies. BAH.

^ and his infinity arguement is flawed

he set it up so who ever is not really paying attention will think oh jeez if he says its not logical to think that it must be

he says

either something alwasy existed
or
nothing created everything

well he says the first one is more logical because....???

neither idea is more logical than the other, so dont tell me the first one is more logical than the other

just scroll down to 13:13 and read from there. It isn't written in the english you expect in like new york times, you just have to read carefully

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I don't see how anyone can take this guy seriously.

don't worry, 3000 views and 90% of them laugh in his face

Who's Adolph Hitler? lol

Funny how he uses Hitler's quotes when they can be used in the same way vs. religion.

result of too much free time

i will actually look at all his videos tomorrow to educate myself a bit more, more tools for my bag

Your first question asked how God could allow sickness and suffering.

You then went on to ask a second question and quoted Deuteronomy 13.

For most people the problem of evil is not an intellectual problem, but an emotional one. They want to know why God allows evil and suffering. When they can’t get a satisfactory answer, they become angry. They don’t like a God who would permit them or others to suffer. This anger does not mean that God does not have a reason. We are assured that He is just and that every act shall be called into account at the time of the White Throne Judgment.

In other posts I've already explained that the Plan of God (Plan A) did not include sickness and death. Adam was not supposed to sin, he was not supposed to eat that fruit. Cain and Able were actually supposed to talk it out and God encouraged Cain (who became stubborn) to do well so that his sacrifice would also be accepted. Did God enforce the rule "An eye for an eye" and kill Cain? No. In point of fact there were no commandments in place at that time.

To understand your questions it is critical to recall that man had not spent much time with his Creator and was not fully held accountable yet.

In the Christian worldview, God has done something about evil in the person of Jesus Christ. He does not just say, “Okay, I created you. Now prepare to suffer!” Instead of indifference to the suffering and death of mankind we were given His son. Though he was innocent, He voluntarily took upon Himself the punishment we deserve. And why? Because He loves us. It is like He was saying, “I know you don’t understand why I permit every evil. It’s not possible for you to understand yet. But just to show you that you can trust me, I’m going to suffer (through the person of My son) with you.” He has given us a clue, a deposit, a down payment that He does have good reasons for allowing evil and that He does have a greater good in store. By keeping the promise that he made to the seed of the woman, He showed us that we could trust Him.

Those who are children of faith are children of the promise. We believe that our time on earth is but a very short time and can not be compared to the promise of eternal life. But that isn't what was said to Moses during the time of the Exodus. After witnessing the miracles that brought them out of Egypt they (the chosen children of God) complained, "Why did you bring us out to the desert to die??? Why didn't you just let us die in comfort in Egypt???" They had not yet become truly Children of the Promise.

Jstar1, yours is the most popular argument against the existence of God and is based on the timeless question: "If there is truly a good God, then why is there evil in the world?" Typically the argument runs as: "Since our world is full of evil and a good, all-powerful God would never allow for evil, God therefore cannot exist." Again, this argument involves more emotion (usually anger) than reason, but the question is important to consider.

As Stress pointed out we must first consider the meaning of evil. There are two kinds of evil: moral and physical. Moral evil is willful sin, while physical evil is natural harm. Examples of moral evil are murder, adultery, fornication, theft etc. Examples of physical evil are famine, illness, natural disasters and death. Now we can see that evil is not something in itself, but a lack of something that should be present, an example would be how a lie lacks in truth. God does not create evil since it is not a thing to be created. Evil is an imperfection, a lack of something (like integrity). It could be argued that "Evil" from God would be a missing ingredient essential to our fulfillment or a void in God's creation.

________________________________________________________
Personal note:
I took a nap at the conclusion of the last page here (page 7) and was surprised to find so many responses when I woke up. I'll ask you to pardon me as I get something to eat before I attempt to describe how difficult it was to deal with men who were called "stiff necked" and "stubborn" by their leader, Moshe (also called Moses). At the time of Deuteronomy (just before his death) he was 120 years old. The Israelites had not yet crossed over the Jordan into the Promised Land.

In order to understand the answer to the second question about how God dealt with the men He called out, we will have to cast ourselves into a place in time that can now only be imagined. When we look back at the interactions between God and man we need to recall that God wasn't dealing directly with 21st century individuals, nor was He dealing with individuals at all for that matter. When we speak of "The God of the Old Testament" the reference is by definition "Christian". The words, "Old Testament" mean old covenant, another word for 'agreement'. Basically man was offered an agreement with his Maker that included trust that God would deliver on His Promise. No agreement is binding unless it is binding on both parties. Man's side was the same as it always was, that he obey God. But now (as opposed to the time in the garden of Eden) man was saddled with knowledge of good and evil. I can not stress enough that this was not in God's perfect will. God continued to make His word, His Promise, not only to the person He was speaking to but also to the seed, the progeny of that person. The Promise was first delivered to Eve (and her seed).

Later, God chose Abram (who believed the Promises of God - that He would make him the Father of many nations, that He would lead them to a Land filled with milk and honey) and then later still chose Moses to lead those stubborn children of Abraham (oftentimes against their will) into the Promise. Indeed, Abraham has become a father of many nations. I believe that God will make a way to keep the promise he made to the seed of the woman (Eve) that was continued through the seed of Abraham. Every promise that God has made, to those of us called Muslim, to those of us called Israelite, to those of us called Gentile and yes, even to those of us called "The Nations" will be kept. How's that for an example of faith? It's true enough and I'm certain that I won't be ashamed of having said that. I have God's word on it. I also doubt that this will be found as satisfactory because by nature it is a statement of my faith. For the most part (and especially on this game forum) in my past posts I've tried with varying degrees of success to not attempt to make this my pulpit. To those who object to these posts, I can only offer my apologies but I'm fairly certain that you scrolled down and skimmed. No problem and very understandable.

Back later, gonna eat now (I grabbed a peanut butter sandwich but still hungry) - getting sleepy too. Before I post another chapter I would appreciate feedback regarding your first question. The reason that I said that I wouldn't argue with you, Jstar1 is that it appeared that my effort would be fruitless. If you are mad at God (or your dad) I won't want to interfere. It's pointless.

~Granps
BTW, Thanks Barotix. I started to listen to the vid you posted of that guy and couldn't wade through it.

Hey! Who said that before God created the love, the happiness, etc... the world was full of evil and bad things? The big question is: if God didnt invent good things like love, happiness,(lack of smt by definition) what would human be? They always have to suffer, to be hungry, to be miserable? So what's the origin of the evil? Devil? Another God?

So if there is only one unique God, it's not possible to see good/bad things in a absolute way. The only way to see it is that the good and the evil are created at the same time. God created evil to let human understand what is really the good, to trace the limit between 2 sides.

Again, I use your definition of evil. Evil is the lack of smt, when smt is not present. So before God created the universe, has smt been present? Of course, no. Therefore it's not possible that an Empty world
is full of evil. Because Emty is Empty. The "nothing" is not the mother of "evil".

I believe in god. I believe that he works in mysterious ways. He killed people because he does not have to follow his own law. He's a dictator yes, but a fair one. He killed gays because they are not supposed to be fkin the same sex, i dont know if anyone noticed but the sex organs were designed how they are for a reason.

OT a little bit:I will tell you i dont believe that we can go to hell, i think that we are already in hell. I think that we have to prove ourself to get to heaven and the longer it takes you to prove yourself the longer your here.

OT a lot: White people are from caucas mountain, hence the name caucasion. The earth was to hot for them so they went to a mountain...lol(seriously)

Ok Peoples firstly

NO.1 DO NOT Buy Dilusion of GOD, it is written by a self professed
world leader in Psycho anaylisis and Psychology. I have a Dual Degree in Both, he tries to talk in a way that people think hes smart and accept hes right because he knows more. FACT He is an idiot, he does not.

No.1 Evil being the basis for any belief in god is a huge FAIL.
The only definition of evil that runs true is this.
Evil is something that
A. Breaks the Rules of your Belief
B. Tries to damage your Belief.

NOTHING else fits as if your think about it anything can indeed be evil or not as is the case with narcisists.


Religion can be the belief of any system Divine or not.
God can exist in these systems or Not.

God is a powerful Ideal for people.


My god has two No.1's [edit]

Certainly not me. God IS love and is not capable of evil. My favorite book of the Christian bible is James, the 1st chapter of which expressed this very well. James 1:13

Actually I pulled the above definition of evil out of my hat, it's just something I read somewhere along the line. It isn't dogma but only used to illustrate a point. God is not culpable or blameworthy, neither is His intent nor purpose. He doesn't need me to defend Him. I'm just responding to another person's request here. It's clear, NuclearSilo, we have entirely different worldviews.

Would it be fair of me to call you a Theistic Existentialist, a Rationalist or a Empiricist? I'm confused by most of the things you say due most likely to my ignorance of your belief set.

@caseyd4: You've mixed two quotes together. I'm also curious where you got your degree in "Psycho anaylisis". (sic)
_______________________________________________________
Jstar1,

I was surprised that you have not read the book of Job. It deals with your problem in a poetic manner. Job is a righteous, God-fearing man; however, Satan alleges that Job's righteousness is only there because God protects him. God allows Satan to inflict Job with horrible disasters and disease. Satan wants to show God that Job's faith is false. Under intense suffering Job argues with "friends" about the suffering of the innocent. Towards the end God enters the debate and responds:

God responds by telling Job that His wisdom and power are beyond man's ability to understand. Also man is not in control of the universe: his virtues alone do not ensure earthly happiness. Job humbly closes the debate with the words:

The Bible here suggests that we should accept suffering and trust in God. Later in the Bible, Jesus Christ accepts this course as an example to all. In my worldview we are near the culmination of an Age. God is literally pouring out knowledge upon all the earth. It's a little off topic but I am fascinated by something that seems very strange. If God is the source of all light and knowledge why do His followers seem to reject the gifts he gives? Science is NOT the enemy.

~Grandpa

Yep i was in church this morrning