Do you guys believe in god?

Amarisa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 4049 **Location:** Magic

i believe god is seen as a result of a balanced equation in the world or "cause and effect". the thief that you were talking about he stole and made the balance unbalanced so therefore when he was shot it made the equation equal again. so basically im saying the world is a math problem lol.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

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Before I go to sleep here's a video that might help OP.
Oh and Venom would have fun with this video:
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Amarisa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 4049 **Location:** Magic

lol you all will love this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI

Blurred · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 2894 **Location:**

Barotix wrote:

Blurred wrote:

Both sides have facts and both sides have areas were you cannot prove. I cant change your belief and you cant change mine. But the only thing that can keep me going is ghost and spirits. It might sound... retarded but just the fact that "spirits" can exists within our world, i do know that there is a higher being.

Both sides may have areas that cannot be proven but only one side's unproven areas can be proven to be true over time. Can you guess which side that is?

One side has objective rational empiricism that is passed as fact until a better fact comes along and replaces the previous fact. They're called theories. The other side has faith. I don't understand why Abrahamic religions are so at odds with Science. Think of Science as this: An application of the free will and free thought gifted to us by a sentient being in order to understand that being, it's origins, and our purpose. Stop trying to control everything, just let go. The sentient being doesn't even have to be a being. It can be an idea of perfection. <insert philosophy rant here><insert history lesson here><insert more agnosticism here>.

...Sight, touch, smell, taste, and hearing. Yeah no spirits as far as my senses go.

...Sight, touch, smell, taste, and hearing. Yeah no Evolution as far as my senses go.

Your "side" cannot be proven. Not even over time because there is no way
in recreating those events. (Heh)

Did you know the bible is one of the "most" scientific books out there today? Yes believe it and do some research. http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:34 pm

Science cant prove magic. Magic is a spiritual power can make the "nothing" becomes "smt".

Blurred · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 2894 **Location:**

NuclearSilo wrote:

Science cant prove magic. Magic is a spiritual power can make the "nothing" becomes "smt".

So your saying science is magic? Because according to science "nothing" did make "something"

Love · **Joined:** Nov 2007 **Posts:** 5336 **Location:**

Obama rocks

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

Barotix wrote:

Oh and Venom would have fun with this video:
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Quote:

"Existence is a relatively simply concept. It is defined as that which consists of either matter or energy."

Greetings, Barotix!

I have no problem with the definition your vid presents about "Existence".
Well, maybe I have no problem...
Okay, I have a problem with the definition. :!:

A BIG problem with it.

"Existence is a relatively simply concept. It is defined as that which consists of either matter or energy."
:?:

What about 'anti-matter'? What about 'dark matter'?

The premise is flawed. The conclusion (therefor if a God exists it is either composed of matter or energy...) is also flawed.
The argument pretends to be logical but Barotix, you know better.

My employment background includes computer technology and the logic of an "IF THEN" statement has conditioned me to examine the "IF CONDITION" first and ignore past it when the evaluation of the .IF. is .FALSE.

Code:

.IF. "dogs" == "apples" .THEN. Barotix! == God!

We don't go past the ".THEN." because, and of course, no dog is an apple.
.IF. "existence" == "matter" and/or "energy" [and nothing else] .THEN. ... blah, blah, blah...

I'll go back now and listen to the rest of your vid, but wanted to point out that I've come to expect better from you. I do agree with your sentiment for the most part about the arrogant, ignorant, annoying kid who proclaims himself to be a minister of the truth but isn't. Christians are warned and admonished to constantly judge amongst THEMSELVES because many false prophets will enter and will deceive many.

On a personal note, I've never seen the conflict that many point to when they examine how the universe came into existence (Science) and why (Religion). I've also failed to fit myself into any known flavor (denomination) of religion either. Why should I? There is One Faith, One God, One Baptism, One Church. The failure of the church to unite is the single most striking flaw in my sight, not some abstracted discussion about "how". Unity amongst the believers is something that only the doer of the impossible can accomplish, I'll leave that to Him.

~Granps

PS @Blurred:
I did enjoy your 101 Scientific Facts & Foreknowledge link. I've not seen this before. Nice job there. [EDIT]I would quickly say that even though I appreciate the effort (reconciling the Bible with Science) I do NOT agree with many of the 101 statements.

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

I think anti-matter and dark-matter still count as matter there, Granps.

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

Reise wrote:

I think anti-matter and dark-matter still count as matter there, Granps.

Perhaps, but not from anything I've read about dark matter - would you mind giving me a quote to support your thought? It really should be named "Dark Stuff" because of its nebulous nature. Is non-baryonic matter with no electromagnetic interaction matter? We need better term when we start talking about this stuff, methinks.

[EDIT]: I did go back an listen to the rest of the vid that Barotix posted. Around frame 400 he posted a pic with the "Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" that I've not seen before - made me laugh. Still, I noticed that one of his charts included "dark matter". When I apply his argument to the existence of this stuff, all of his statements and conclusions about God (every one of them, without exception) apply to also "prove" that Dark Stuff doesn't exist.

In the world of Science there is quite a big stir now about grants and funding. The money that is being spent on researching the existence of dark matter is money that other researchers can't get. When dark stuff researchers say "Dark Matter is difficult to detect" and "If it was easy to find it wouldn't be Dark Matter" to justify the expense of going deeper and deeper into the earth and funding even more methods of seeing the unobservable, of detecting the undetectable, others object with arguments similar to those given in the video.

rumblemilitia · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 357 **Location:**

Love wrote:

Obama rocks

OBAMA SUX

Btw he needs serious protection these days.U know this world rulled by some groups and i dont think they accept him.

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:16 pm

Blurred wrote:

NuclearSilo wrote:

Science cant prove magic. Magic is a spiritual power can make the "nothing" becomes "smt".

So your saying science is magic? Because according to science "nothing" did make "something"

What? What made what? What is that smt?

PS: it's not because that u didnt see God with a telescope that u can conclude that god not exist.

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

Lady_Shadows wrote:

lol you all will love this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI

I disagree.
The argument that I can pray and have my favorite sports team win or that I should approach a red light in a busy intersection and PRAY it turn green -- then run the red light in faith -- is absurd.

Quote:

1 Peter 3:12
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

The time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God.

~Granps

rumblemilitia · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 357 **Location:**

I asked at the beginning of this topic and i ask again.We accept there is a God who created all universe.

-There r 3 religion books in this world; Torah(Pentateuch), Bible ,Kur'an
-Who knows which is true or all of them r true or some of them has been changed by ppl after prophet and not pure(i m not a religioust person so i m not good at religion).

-Think one of them is real one and armageddon came and other unbelievers went to hell.Think about Torah is real one.When the Torah came to earth?What will happen ppl before living Torah or Bible or Kur'an?They dont even know what is book

Think first tribes in this world they didnt know even what is shit

They were worshipped sun,moon,fish,bird what ever they can see.Tell me then r they go to the HELL?

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

Lul. I said Venom would have fun with that video because it's easy picking. I like his argument though.

Blurred wrote:

Barotix wrote:

Blurred wrote:

Both sides have facts and both sides have areas were you cannot prove. I cant change your belief and you cant change mine. But the only thing that can keep me going is ghost and spirits. It might sound... retarded but just the fact that "spirits" can exists within our world, i do know that there is a higher being.

Both sides may have areas that cannot be proven but only one side's unproven areas can be proven to be true over time. Can you guess which side that is?

One side has objective rational empiricism that is passed as fact until a better fact comes along and replaces the previous fact. They're called theories. The other side has faith. I don't understand why Abrahamic religions are so at odds with Science. Think of Science as this: An application of the free will and free thought gifted to us by a sentient being in order to understand that being, it's origins, and our purpose. Stop trying to control everything, just let go. The sentient being doesn't even have to be a being. It can be an idea of perfection. <insert philosophy rant here><insert history lesson here><insert more agnosticism here>.

...Sight, touch, smell, taste, and hearing. Yeah no spirits as far as my senses go.

1]...Sight, touch, smell, taste, and hearing. Yeah no Evolution as far as my senses go.

Your "side" cannot be proven. Not even over time because there is no way
in recreating those events. (Heh)

2]
Did you know the bible is one of the "most" scientific books out there today? Yes believe it and do some research. http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html

1]With time the proper instruments are found. With those instruments test can be done that will prove what is "shady". No way in recreating those events? Obviously you're talking about evolution and obviously you're posting what Venom told you. Evolution for dummies is simple to understand: It is adaptation and change over time. Evolution can be tested given a large amount of time (macro e). Micro evolution is fact and has been tested. I'm sure you didn't know this. As for the big bang. There's a nice instrument under France. It's goal is to recreate the big bang. Given enough time and the proper instruments any event can be recreated. If it can't be tested multiple times by multiple people then it isn't very scientific. Did I forget to mention you must be UM blind.

2]The bible isn't scientific. Do you even know what science is? Did Venom feed you that BS?

Quote:

So your saying science is magic? Because according to science "nothing" did make "something"

Forget it. You're an idiot.

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

rumblemilitia wrote:

What will happen ppl before living Torah or Bible or Kur'an?They dont even know what is book

Think first tribes in this world they didnt know even what is shit

They were worshipped sun,moon,fish,bird what ever they can see.Tell me then r they go to the HELL?

That's why pagans and such were pretty much "hunted" down by the other religions. Claiming they were sinners, godless, etc. It's how the term "heathen" became synonymous with the same sort of thing.

But, I'm pretty sure according to the major religions of today, most of them were either going to hell or purgatory because they weren't saved by the ever holy light of god. Which, frankly, is bullshit because paganism and polytheism was around far earlier than anyone started blabbing about one single god responsible for all. Before the concept itself was even thought of by man.

Draquish · **Joined:** Mar 2006 **Posts:** 6423 **Location:** ____

What most religious people don't get is:

People who don't believe, don't believe. No matter how many verses from your holy book you throw at them. IMO, either someone gullible, easily manipulated, or for the person to experience a personal 'encounter' with your God are/is needed to turn them into believers.

rumblemilitia · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 357 **Location:**

Draquish wrote:

What most religious people don't get is:

People who don't believe, don't believe. No matter how many verses from your holy book you throw at them. IMO, either someone gullible, easily manipulated, or for the person to experience a personal 'encounter' with your God are/is needed to turn them into believers.

First we should read holly books and talk about them l8tr rite my friend?How u deicide which is true and which is not.A guy talking about here Bible is the most blablabla.I can tell u hundred books about Kuran and scientific.We dont know which is true.Ur ppl telling u Bible is the real one so u r a christian how do u know Torah is real one have u ever read no!

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

rumblemilitia wrote:

Draquish wrote:

What most religious people don't get is:

People who don't believe, don't believe. No matter how many verses from your holy book you throw at them. IMO, either someone gullible, easily manipulated, or for the person to experience a personal 'encounter' with your God are/is needed to turn them into believers.

First we should read holly books and talk about them l8tr rite my friend?How u deicide which is true and which is not.A guy talking about here Bible is the most blablabla.I can tell u hundred books about Kuran and scientific.We dont know which is true.Ur ppl telling u Bible is the real one so u r a christian how do u know Torah is real one have u ever read no!

Torah = Bible = Quran. Each one has slight modifications but they're all the same.

rumblemilitia · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 357 **Location:**

Barotix wrote:

rumblemilitia wrote:

Draquish wrote:

What most religious people don't get is:

People who don't believe, don't believe. No matter how many verses from your holy book you throw at them. IMO, either someone gullible, easily manipulated, or for the person to experience a personal 'encounter' with your God are/is needed to turn them into believers.

First we should read holly books and talk about them l8tr rite my friend?How u deicide which is true and which is not.A guy talking about here Bible is the most blablabla.I can tell u hundred books about Kuran and scientific.We dont know which is true.Ur ppl telling u Bible is the real one so u r a christian how do u know Torah is real one have u ever read no!

Torah = Bible = Quran. Each one has slight modifications but they're all the same.

+1

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

rumblemilitia wrote:

Draquish wrote:

What most religious people don't get is:

People who don't believe, don't believe. No matter how many verses from your holy book you throw at them. IMO, either someone gullible, easily manipulated, or for the person to experience a personal 'encounter' with your God are/is needed to turn them into believers.

First we should read holly books and talk about them l8tr rite my friend?How u deicide which is true and which is not.A guy talking about here Bible is the most blablabla.I can tell u hundred books about Kuran and scientific.We dont know which is true.Ur ppl telling u Bible is the real one so u r a christian how do u know Torah is real one have u ever read no!

Uhhhhh... rumblemilitia, how about you tell me what the Torah is. You sound like you want me to believe you know. What is the Tanakh?

Although I am not a Hebrew scholar I do not support the belief that all translations are inspired.

Blurred · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 2894 **Location:**

Quote:

1]...Sight, touch, smell, taste, and hearing. Yeah no Evolution as far as my senses go.

Your "side" cannot be proven. Not even over time because there is no way
in recreating those events. (Heh)

2]
Did you know the bible is one of the "most" scientific books out there today? Yes believe it and do some research. http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html

Quote:

1]With time the proper instruments are found. With those instruments test can be done that will prove what is "shady". No way in recreating those events? Obviously you're talking about evolution and obviously you're posting what Venom told you. Evolution for dummies is simple to understand: It is adaptation and change over time. Evolution can be tested given a large amount of time (macro e). Micro evolution is fact and has been tested. I'm sure you didn't know this. As for the big bang. There's a nice instrument under France. It's goal is to recreate the big bang. Given enough time and the proper instruments any event can be recreated. If it can't be tested multiple times by multiple people then it isn't very scientific. Did I forget to mention you must be UM blind.

2]The bible isn't scientific. Do you even know what science is? Did Venom feed you that BS?

Quote:

So your saying science is magic? Because according to science "nothing" did make "something"

Forget it. You're an idiot.

*sigh* How am i an idiot? Because im debating with you? REELAXXX Kid.

Did you know that most scientist REJECT the theory of evolution? Here is another wonderful website you can check out. http://www.ridgenet.net/~do_while/sage/v5i10f.htm

The Bible is in fact scientific, and contains many scientific evidence on all sorts of topics. (Do some research, check the website i posted earlier... dont be UM blind)

Oh and about the recreation of the "Big Bang" If it does happen and if it does prove "things". I will come back and i will honestly apologize to you.

The Koran and the bible are different.

http://www.carm.org/islam/Bible_koran_diff.htm

The Torah is IN the bible...

The Torah is just the first 6 books of the old testament. The Jews study the Torah. The bible is all those books, plus the rest of the old testament, and the new testament

rumblemilitia · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 357 **Location:**

Grandpa wrote:

rumblemilitia wrote:

Draquish wrote:

What most religious people don't get is:

People who don't believe, don't believe. No matter how many verses from your holy book you throw at them. IMO, either someone gullible, easily manipulated, or for the person to experience a personal 'encounter' with your God are/is needed to turn them into believers.

First we should read holly books and talk about them l8tr rite my friend?How u deicide which is true and which is not.A guy talking about here Bible is the most blablabla.I can tell u hundred books about Kuran and scientific.We dont know which is true.Ur ppl telling u Bible is the real one so u r a christian how do u know Torah is real one have u ever read no!

Uhhhhh... rumblemilitia, how about you tell me what the Torah is. You sound like you want me to believe you know. What is the Tanakh?

Although I am not a Hebrew scholar I do not support the belief that all translations are inspired.

Dear Grandpa i dont believe Torah cuz i m a Muslim.As i said i m not a good religioust person and not enough knowlage about this i just wanted to know how ppl talking about religion %100 sure and asked what will happened ppl before religion.Torah was the first book so i exampled it thats it.

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:39 pm

the bible is a propaganda tool written by those wishing to impose their ideals on society in the name of god. While it may inadvertently contribute to the knowledge of some matters pertaining to history and geography there is no way you can call the bible scientific.

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

rumblemilitia wrote:

Dear Grandpa i dont believe Torah cuz i m a Muslim.As i said i m not a good religioust person and not enough knowlage about this i just wanted to know how ppl talking about religion %100 sure and asked what will happened ppl before religion.Torah was the first book so i exampled it thats it.

Rumblemilitia, thank you.

The Jewish Bible (also called the Tanakh) is divided into 3 sections. In English (because I can only speak one language) the sections of the Jewish Bible are:

TORAH "Teaching" or "Instructions" are the writings of Moses and comprise the first five (5) books of the Christian Bible. The Torah is also called the "The Law" or Pentateuch.
NEVI'IM "Prophets" - In the "Christian" Old Testament these books are divided into "The Minor Prophets" and "The Major Prophets".
KETUVIM "Writings" - In what is called the Christian Old Testament these books include "Song of Solomon, Psalms, Ezra, Ruth, etc

.

The Jewish Bible and the Christian Old Testament are in agreement regarding these writings but Jews also include the TALMUD which is not present in the Christian Old Testament. The oral tradition of the Jews include the Talmud because it was delivered to Moses at the time of the writing of the Torah.

Translations of pre-Christian writings include a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible called the Septuagint. Included in the Septuagint are books not found in the Hebrew Bible. Certain Christian sects (denominations) include them in their version of what is called "The Christian Bible."

~Grandpa

Blurred · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 2894 **Location:**

XemnasXD wrote:

the bible is a propaganda tool written by those wishing to impose their ideals on society in the name of god. While it may inadvertently contribute to the knowledge of some matters pertaining to history and geography there is no way you can call the bible scientific.

Your right, the bible was used for alot of wrongful doings in society. But it wasn't used for that purpose. Please click Here The bible has a lot of science in it.

nukingfuts · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:57 pm

I believe.

crazyskwrls · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 2293 **Location:**

if people are imperfect and they go to heaven wont heaven be just like earth?

rumblemilitia · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 357 **Location:**

Thnx4information Grandpa

btw

U guyz telling Bible is scientific and i put forward Quran with math codes u can search it google about tausands sites what will it solve anyways?

-U can find kind of sites all over the internet about holly books.
http://www.scienceandquran.com/
-Religion is too much4 an alcoholic boy like me so i ll read only

nukingfuts · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:00 am

crazyskwrls wrote:

if people are imperfect and they go to heaven wont heaven be just like earth?

You will never know,until u die.

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