Same goes for proving that science is the reason for creation. You can't. And in a way yes your right, but it does indeed mean you can't prove it's nonexistence which is what I was getting at. Atheists try to tell people God doesn't exist and tries to get them to doubt their beliefs. People can't stop that belief no matter how much they try because like you said you can't prove somethign doesn't exist. Makes sense to me anyways lol. (no argument intended either)
"innocent until proven guilty" not the other way around
I could say the same about every other religion, and everything anywhere at anytime. There is an invisible banana in the sky..and an xbox orbiting the sun. It is true because you can't disprove it..?
I believe someone posted a more scientifically sound reply to that. Something orbiting the sun..etc. I forget who though.
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 5570 Location: Being the forum ritalin
I'm currently reading a story, and their version of death, religion, and the like was very interesting to me.
According to it, Astral Projection (yes, yes, nuclearsilo alert, whatever) is real. Each person's spirit, makes their belief real. So everyone has their own hell, or heaven, or 40 virgins or such. In every case, the people in hell, are in hell because they choose to. Their spirit makes it real for them. I'd give a link to the story... but no.
_________________ Quoted from BuDo (Except I Am Vegeta cuz we all know he is a used tampon when it comes to his personality)
Same goes for proving that science is the reason for creation. You can't. And in a way yes your right, but it does indeed mean you can't prove it's nonexistence which is what I was getting at. Atheists try to tell people God doesn't exist and tries to get them to doubt their beliefs. People can't stop that belief no matter how much they try because like you said you can't prove somethign doesn't exist. Makes sense to me anyways lol. (no argument intended either)
"innocent until proven guilty" not the other way around
I could say the same about every other religion, and everything anywhere at anytime. There is an invisible banana in the sky..and an xbox orbiting the sun. It is true because you can't disprove it..?
I believe someone posted a more scientifically sound reply to that. Something orbiting the sun..etc. I forget who though.
I wasn't saying it's true, I'm saying I believe it's true and no one can convince me otherwise as it is indeed impossible to prove God doesn't exist. I have my reasons for believing and that is all I need as I have said.
btw, xbox are on earth and earth is orbiting the sun. So in turn, yes there is an xbox orbiting the sun as well as millions more. However if you want to believe there is an invisible banana is the sky.. well that's your choice.
Well you believe that there is an invisible man in the sky so my belief shouldn't be looked at in any condescending way (not saying you were giving one). But I understand your reasoning. What happens if/when scientists do find proof of the big bang or some other theory? Will you give up your beliefs? This makes me curious..
The quantum strings stuff you posted, I'd need a link. But as far as string theory goes, it's a huge mathematical train wreck. We honestly don't know how the universe began, or what kickstarted the big bang.
My argument for why I don't believe in god is simple, and is in the form of a question: Why should I?
To expand on that a little (and this horse has been beaten to death), what evidence is there that says or points me in the direction of believing in god? As far as creation goes, and I assume you mean creation that challenges evolution, there is simply too much evidence for evolution and again, none for the creation story. You don't believe in evolution, you either accept it or you don't. Example: You either accept gravity or you don't. You can argue all day about the details of how gravity works, but the fact remains, gravity is real, it happens.
Well you believe that there is an invisible man in the sky so my belief shouldn't be looked at in any condescending way (not saying you were giving one). But I understand your reasoning. What happens if/when scientists do find proof of the big bang or some other theory? Will you give up your beliefs? This makes me curious..
Well they can prove all the want, what they can't do is disprove God. I actually believe there will be a scientific explanation. But why can't someone believe in God AND Science? I do. And who knows if God is invisible or not? A man or something else? And maybe God is the one that orchestrated the Big Bang using Science.
Well they can prove all the want, what they can't do is disprove God. I actually believe there will be a scientific explanation. But why can't someone believe in God AND Science? I do. And who knows if God is invisible or not? A man or something else? And maybe God is the one that orchestrated the Big Bang using Science.
Disprove what exactly? One cannot disprove that which is not demonstrable. If you can assert something without proof, then I can dismiss it without proof. Done.
Your personal feelings about the existence of a god may be good enough for you, but they're worthless to me and everyone else. To use your personal emotional state and wave it around as indefinite proof of your claim is not valid reasoning for the rest of us who aren't you. There's nothing wrong with being science-oriented and believing in god without a shred of proof, however, you show that you're willing to accept something to be true on the basis that you personally feel that it is so. Fortunately, science runs on empirical evidence, not feelings.
@ Azilius
Was it Russell's teapot?
Russell's teapot wrote:
If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.
[color=#000000]Disprove what exactly? One cannot disprove that which is not demonstrable. If you can assert something without proof, then I can dismiss it without proof. Done.
I mean that cannot disprove my belief. I am not saying Science is wrong. I am saying I believe in God. You do not have to. I believe in science as well. Is that so wrong?
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Last edited by William-CL on Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[color=#000000]Disprove what exactly? One cannot disprove that which is not demonstrable. If you can assert something without proof, then I can dismiss it without proof. Done.
I mean that cannot disprove my belief. I am saying God Exists, I am not saying Science is wrong. I am saying I believe in God. You do not have to. I believe in science as well. Is that so wrong?
There is a bit of misconception with these words such as believing in science. People do not believe in science as much as they acknowledge the evidence that backs up a theory to be made into an accepted fact. Science is everchanging as new evidence is found to either support or contradict a theory therefore believing in science blindly is just as dumb as blindly being religious. Also what are evolutionists? I didnt realise that evolution was a cult but rather an accepted theory of advanced lifeforms by natural selection.
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"I'm not an evolved being, how dare you call me that" - Christian
Same goes for proving that science is the reason for creation. You can't. And in a way yes your right, but it does indeed mean you can't prove it's nonexistence which is what I was getting at. Atheists try to tell people God doesn't exist and tries to get them to doubt their beliefs. People can't stop that belief no matter how much they try because like you said you can't prove somethign doesn't exist. Makes sense to me anyways lol. (no argument intended either)
Well what I was getting at was that, shouldn't it be the burden of the religious followers to prove the existence of their god(s)? Not the non-believers proving the god(s) don't exist.
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Last edited by Nick Invaders on Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Example: You either accept gravity or you don't. You can argue all day about the details of how gravity works, but the fact remains, gravity is real, it happens.
Already saw that, it's a crackpot attempt. He's got a long way to go with that theory. Still doesn't change my example, gravity, no matter what you call it, happens. You can argue all day long why and how, but in the end it happens. You either accept that or you do not. Same applies to evolution.
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 2147 Location: Dead.(No Longer With Us)
EvGa wrote:
~Mark~ wrote:
EvGa wrote:
Example: You either accept gravity or you don't. You can argue all day about the details of how gravity works, but the fact remains, gravity is real, it happens.
Already saw that, it's a crackpot attempt. He's got a long way to go with that theory. Still doesn't change my example, gravity, no matter what you call it, happens. You can argue all day long why and how, but in the end it happens. You either accept that or you do not. Same applies to evolution.
I don't believe in god cause I don't need to. science pulls us forward. religion started cause people couldn't explain things. then science came and they knew why it rained, why the sky was blue...etc. God now is just a moral support. In my opinion for the weaker ones who can't accept it when something shitty happens. If you can accept that shit just happens you don't need a god.
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Day[9] wrote:
"Tea is a lot like gold expansions - it helps you kill people." - Day[9] Daily 337 -
Example: You either accept gravity or you don't. You can argue all day about the details of how gravity works, but the fact remains, gravity is real, it happens.
Already saw that, it's a crackpot attempt. He's got a long way to go with that theory. Still doesn't change my example, gravity, no matter what you call it, happens. You can argue all day long why and how, but in the end it happens. You either accept that or you do not. Same applies to evolution.
You're sorta right; I found that queer as well, hence the "sohappy", but let's just give the guy some time. He even might be right, who knows.
Evolution is actually way more complex than you could think. It doesn't simply happen that species A turn into species B, or that species X die off and species Y take over. It's a whole lot more and all these factors do influence each other.
To be back into topic, I'd just say that I was raised catholic, but turned out to find out that all of this didn't fit my ideals -let's say it this way. I do not blame those who do believe in whatever deity they praise, but I don't feel the need to join them either. That's it.
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 837 Location: Nice question O,O
Tasdik wrote:
Could you please post your most convincing arguments for why you dont believe in a god and/or creation. Videos, essays or whatever will work.
Also, while i have you here, im told that the current research of quantum physics now understand that the universe was brought into exsistance by the energized vibrations of sound. Is this true?
Could you please post arguments for why you DO believe in God please.
Same goes for proving that science is the reason for creation. You can't. And in a way yes your right, but it does indeed mean you can't prove it's nonexistence which is what I was getting at. Atheists try to tell people God doesn't exist and tries to get them to doubt their beliefs. People can't stop that belief no matter how much they try because like you said you can't prove somethign doesn't exist. Makes sense to me anyways lol. (no argument intended either)
"innocent until proven guilty" not the other way around
I could say the same about every other religion, and everything anywhere at anytime. There is an invisible banana in the sky..and an xbox orbiting the sun. It is true because you can't disprove it..?
I believe someone posted a more scientifically sound reply to that. Something orbiting the sun..etc. I forget who though.
And maybe God is the one that orchestrated the Big Bang using Science.
Can't tell if srs? Honestly, the idea of a freaking deity was created thousands of years ago to fit with the evolution of the human brain (originated with burial of the dead) and they had no idea how the world originated. Science isn't created by a mystical being, it's straight up logic and fact. So basically, I would conclude that anyone who believes in a god is silly, because someone who follows a religion, clearly demonstrates the behavior that their religion is correct, as they don't follow another religion. Right now we believe scientology, and ancient greek/egyptian religions are false, and soon, within the next couple decades i presume, people will finally smarten up. But as of right now, it's these conservative, bible-toting douches who slow down the progression of science and mankind. Saying things like "global warming doesn't exist, abortion is wrong, stem cell usage is wrong etc." for the reasons told in the bible.
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You know, I really do hate these threads. Not because I don't like seeing people expressing their beliefs, no it's the opposite in all actuallity. Most people in this thread aren't saying "This is my belief, this beliefs suits my personell views, it enriches my life and that's why I believe it". Everyone here is too focused on disproving the other person's belief, like it's some kind of goddam competition!
"Oh my goldfish can swim 15 laps of his bowl in a minute. I bet yours can't do that!"
My opinion is simple. If you believe in science, religion, a cross bread of both or even some sort of spiritual mantra, It doesn't matter. Honestly, it really doesn't matter. Belief in a certain thought isn't about believing in it because it's "correct", it's about believing in it because the principles of whatever you are believing in relate to you personally and enrich your life.
I believe in Karma not because I think it's correct, hell I have a strong belief that it doesn't even exist, but I follow the basic principals because I believe it makes me a better person. I also believe in evolution, not because I think it's correct, but rather because I think the whole concept is pretty dam cool. The whole concept of a set species changing overtime is really dam awesome in my eyes, so I like to believe it to be true simply because I like the concept of it. I think it makes the world a hell of a lot more interesting place knowing that we've all changed from a different form over millions of years and that's good enough for me.
There is no right, there is no wrong. Nothing can be proved to be totally correct, nothing can be diminished to be absolutely incorrect. The way our current knowledge of the world stands, it's all guess work. We all need to spend a bit less time trying to figure out what the "true" belief systems are, and focus a bit more time on believing something that's right for our lifestyle. Adopt a series of teachings because they make you happy, because they enrich your life or appeal to you through pure interest, not simply because they are deemed to be "correct".
The point I'm trying to make is, I hate the "X vs Y" nature of these threads. I'm all for reading what someone beliefs, I find that interesting. What I dislike seeing is the 4 same people, in every one of these threads, saying the exact same arguments which still have no definitive proof behind them. Stop competing, stop hating on each other and let someone believe in simply simply because he goddam wants to!
I have no proof my brain exists, I've never seen it, yet I still believe I have it. It's no different from believing in anything else, tbh. I've never seen a vulture yet I believe they exist, too. I've never seen a Canadian yet I believe people live over there, too. Sometimes we don't need reasons to believe things, if we start trying to justify everything we will soon find we can't prove anything.
If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 17293 Location: Ghosting around
MrTwilliger wrote:
Spoiler!
You know, I really do hate these threads. Not because I don't like seeing people expressing their beliefs, no it's the opposite in all actuallity. Most people in this thread aren't saying "This is my belief, this beliefs suits my personell views, it enriches my life and that's why I believe it". Everyone here is too focused on disproving the other person's belief, like it's some kind of goddam competition!
"Oh my goldfish can swim 15 laps of his bowl in a minute. I bet yours can't do that!"
My opinion is simple. If you believe in science, religion, a cross bread of both or even some sort of spiritual mantra, It doesn't matter. Honestly, it really doesn't matter. Belief in a certain thought isn't about believing in it because it's "correct", it's about believing in it because the principles of whatever you are believing in relate to you personally and enrich your life.
I believe in Karma not because I think it's correct, hell I have a strong belief that it doesn't even exist, but I follow the basic principals because I believe it makes me a better person. I also believe in evolution, not because I think it's correct, but rather because I think the whole concept is pretty dam cool. The whole concept of a set species changing overtime is really dam awesome in my eyes, so I like to believe it to be true simply because I like the concept of it. I think it makes the world a hell of a lot more interesting place knowing that we've all changed from a different form over millions of years and that's good enough for me.
There is no right, there is no wrong. Nothing can be proved to be totally correct, nothing can be diminished to be absolutely incorrect. The way our current knowledge of the world stands, it's all guess work. We all need to spend a bit less time trying to figure out what the "true" belief systems are, and focus a bit more time on believing something that's right for our lifestyle. Adopt a series of teachings because they make you happy, because they enrich your life or appeal to you through pure interest, not simply because they are deemed to be "correct".
The point I'm trying to make is, I hate the "X vs Y" nature of these threads. I'm all for reading what someone beliefs, I find that interesting. What I dislike seeing is the 4 same people, in every one of these threads, saying the exact same arguments which still have no definitive proof behind them. Stop competing, stop hating on each other and let someone believe in simply simply because he goddam wants to!
I have no proof my brain exists, I've never seen it, yet I still believe I have it. It's no different from believing in anything else, tbh. I've never seen a vulture yet I believe they exist, too. I've never seen a Canadian yet I believe people live over there, too. Sometimes we don't need reasons to believe things, if we start trying to justify everything we will soon find we can't prove anything.
My 2 cents.
Wow tl;dr but from the first few lines I read I gotta agree with you, as long as you feel comforted with your beliefs it's all good. Ofcourse there are boundaries but it's indeed to much about proving the other people wrong.
You know, I really do hate these threads. Not because I don't like seeing people expressing their beliefs, no it's the opposite in all actuallity. Most people in this thread aren't saying "This is my belief, this beliefs suits my personell views, it enriches my life and that's why I believe it". Everyone here is too focused on disproving the other person's belief, like it's some kind of goddam competition!
"Oh my goldfish can swim 15 laps of his bowl in a minute. I bet yours can't do that!"
My opinion is simple. If you believe in science, religion, a cross bread of both or even some sort of spiritual mantra, It doesn't matter. Honestly, it really doesn't matter. Belief in a certain thought isn't about believing in it because it's "correct", it's about believing in it because the principles of whatever you are believing in relate to you personally and enrich your life.
I believe in Karma not because I think it's correct, hell I have a strong belief that it doesn't even exist, but I follow the basic principals because I believe it makes me a better person. I also believe in evolution, not because I think it's correct, but rather because I think the whole concept is pretty dam cool. The whole concept of a set species changing overtime is really dam awesome in my eyes, so I like to believe it to be true simply because I like the concept of it. I think it makes the world a hell of a lot more interesting place knowing that we've all changed from a different form over millions of years and that's good enough for me.
There is no right, there is no wrong. Nothing can be proved to be totally correct, nothing can be diminished to be absolutely incorrect. The way our current knowledge of the world stands, it's all guess work. We all need to spend a bit less time trying to figure out what the "true" belief systems are, and focus a bit more time on believing something that's right for our lifestyle. Adopt a series of teachings because they make you happy, because they enrich your life or appeal to you through pure interest, not simply because they are deemed to be "correct".
The point I'm trying to make is, I hate the "X vs Y" nature of these threads. I'm all for reading what someone beliefs, I find that interesting. What I dislike seeing is the 4 same people, in every one of these threads, saying the exact same arguments which still have no definitive proof behind them. Stop competing, stop hating on each other and let someone believe in simply simply because he goddam wants to!
I have no proof my brain exists, I've never seen it, yet I still believe I have it. It's no different from believing in anything else, tbh. I've never seen a vulture yet I believe they exist, too. I've never seen a Canadian yet I believe people live over there, too. Sometimes we don't need reasons to believe things, if we start trying to justify everything we will soon find we can't prove anything.
My 2 cents.
You see, I would agree with that. BUT It's distorted views like religion that cause people to do terrible, terrible things. I don't want to generalize or attack any groups, but many groups hate each other, and religion is seen as a justification for violence in so many cases. ALSO, religion pretty much slows down scientific progression, which in turn is the progression of humanity. For instance, stem cells hold the potential to cure paralysis, possibly even cancer, and other various devastating illnesses, but because of 'religion' there is huge controversy that prevents science from progressing, and if it progresses, alternate methods could even be found! Also, it slows down scientists etc. from discovering our origins and the story of humanity, because so many dumb-ass conservatives preach creationism, and get angry when the theory of evolution becomes more and more scientific fact.
Also, I am just arguing the point that we should let people pretty much believe what they want without questioning it.
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