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Incase people are still wondering, the Run should begin through San Francisco, at 1300 local time (2000 GMT).

Stupid ass hippies...Getting politcs mixed up with sports especially the Olympics. Why can;t they never mind their own business? Always instigating....

how is it wrong for people to protest the olympics and disrupt the torch? I think it is brave for them to go out there and then get arrested, because they are fighting for human rights.

Anyways, the whole deal with beijing doing the olympics...you just knew that there were going to be problems. First off, beijing made extremely vague assurances to the IOC that they were going to help clean the environment in beijing. China knows they have domestic problems, so they came up with these ridiculous rules like "taxi drivers must wear shoes while driving". I mean wtf, taxi drivers in china usually don't put shoes on? There were too many social and environmental problems that people pointed out.

Whats ironic is that the motto is "One world, one dream" but I hardly think its a one world when there is conflict between tibetans and the Chinese.

Its funny that China wished to let the world know that they were now strong, (for example Japan let the world know it was a world power in 1964 Tokyo, when it hosted the olympics, and also South Korea did that too in the 1988 olympics in Seoul.) but now all what people are paying attention to is tibet (which no one even cared about before), human rights issues, environmental problems, and china's dirty little secret in darfur.

Honestly the Olympics itself are boring o.o

The Olympic games are much more than a sporting event. In many ways the events and the whole process of getting the competition together are an example of the state of the world. Who will be there, who won't be there, what athletes are sent, who is hosting. While its nice to think this is just a sporting event ppl don't remember the 1936 Olympic games, they remember the Hitler Games, those games were used to spread Nazi propaganda and pull the wool of the eyes of the world. It helped alot. The Olympics are not just a sporting competition, anyone who reduces them to just that needs to rethink that. The Olympics is a massive Political and Social event and if a country wants to impress the world while hosting, that is the perfect time to do it and if the rest of the world wants to protest the country hosting, protesting the games is an excellent way to get your point across.

Imo these protest are a necessary part of the political and social aspects involved in the games and i think it says alot about ppl who would openly oppose the Chinese Gov't like this. Tibet was an atrocity and while no country is perfect i don't think a county thats done something this horrible and continues to stand by its decision to even recognize it as something wrong deserves to host the games.

what are you talking about..its the most exciting event besides the world cup.

Not to me.

well said.

And Xuchu, read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950-1951_invasion_of_Tibet

Its really really sad how some people are uninformed about how tibet became part of china. A war with india to save tibet? lol. I hardly think that invading tibet was something that had to do with "decades of hardship" by the Chinese people. The invasion itself was largely bloodless, its the massacres after that where tibetans were killed.

What is the reason behind Americas sudden interest in Tibet-- the Buddhist ideology of 1649 Dalai Lama preserving animal and nature (we certainly could be preserving nature at home) or is it what is under nature? Tibet has the worlds largest reserve of uranium, and in addition to gold and copper, large quantities of oil and gas were discovered in Qiangtang Basin in western China's remote Tibet area. A friendly Dalai Lama would help reimburse the CIA subsidies, and much more. It is all about the money d@#$%
Why isnt the U.S. not pressing Israel on human rights violations committed against Palestine ---and Iraq, we are all learning what a major human rights disaster that is.

**** Tibet go after Israel and what theyre doing to palestine

your actually the first person to post that olympics are boring. Everyone I know (in irl) say that watching countries compete with each other is exciting

Yeah i dont find it interesting. Honestly when i see it on tv i change it. The only thing i do watch is the basketball games and thats only sometimes when they gave it.

boring to me also, i just didn't feel the need to post it.

You really don't get anything do you.

1. The US gov't doesn't care about Tibet. We've made some speeches but never done anything about it.
2. The US gov't Supports and Arms Israel. We've sunk billions into giving Israel the power to take on most of if not the entire Middle-East with ease, it would be stupid to go against that now.
3. The Dalai Lama would never support the CIA, an agency responsible for most of the terrorism thats plagued the world for the last 50+ years.

Just like it would be stupid to pull out of Iraq after spending how much money?

Israel doesnt even deserve that land that theyre on....at least punish them for what theyve done to the palestinians

im not arguing thee war now, you wanna do that, do it in another topic. Im merely pointing out that the points you made were either null or wrong. Switching topics to take some pressure off your ill-thought out post won't work....

They should have divided the land evenly between israel and palestine when they first cleared up the land for the israelis. I don't get why they put the palestinian land splat out in the middle of israel to just complicate things up.

The reason why the middle east hates america is ultimately because arabs hate judaism and since we support israel, the arabs hate us. Another great example why religion is destroying peoples lives around the world.

People everywhere see the word "free" and immediately make it their job to intervene. Then we get random people voicing their opinions like they know what's actually going on. I'm fine with ignorant people but unfortunately there are enough of them now to make a difference.

Tibet hasn't for many years had a voice. They're using the Olympic Flame as a voice, as its one way they would be heard. People disturbing the running of the flame is showing their hate toward China, and by putting out the flame is not just 'putting out the flame' it's showing China that what they do and have done is wrong, somehow.

I know one of Australia's most famous swimmers, Dawn Frasier will not be attending the Bejing 2008 Olympics for many reasons somwe of which:

[*]China's Human Rights
[*]The way the treat women
[*]Little/No accessibility for the disabled and/or elderly.

Just to name a few.

Whenever a person, with substantial power stands up to them, they threaten them with cutting off 'trade' within that area etc. Them being one of the most powerful countries in the world, both economically and army-wise.

Probably what I wrote then makes no sense, but I'm trying to do alchemy at the same time.


Go my Signature!

unfortunately, there is clear evidence, files released by the US government (and admitted by the US government) that says the CIA had funded and trained tibetans and assisted them in the 1959 uprising. The same evidence also says CIA has being funding the tibetan government in exile (led by Dalai Lama) until at least the late 1960's. this is the primary reason why Dalai Lama was able to escape to India and establish a government there in the first place. Therefore 2 of your arguments just failed, except for the CIA being responsible for most of the terrorism part.

[quote = "Xuchu"]But using the Olympic as an opportunity for protest is disgusting, for 4 years China had moved workers into Beijing, spent a fortune to give the city a make over so the world will see us not as a poor, impoverished country, but a new, unified, proud country. For 4 years China had people planting trees, flowers, grass so that people will not think we are polluted and dirty. For 4 years young men had worked and bled 12 hour shifts 7 days a week living on the construction site to build new buildings, and everyone of them will be damn proud to say to their friends with swelling hearts of pride that they work for the glory and dignity of China.
Be it the government, anarchists, socialists, democrats, men, women, homesexuals, wealthy, paupers, farmers, merchants, over seas Chinese, mainland Chinese, if they are Chinese and proud to be Chinese, they want the Olympics to happen smoothly for China, really it doesn't hurt the rest of the world one bit to go, but it really will make the past 4 years of hard work something and to be frank;
'We've bled damn enough to deserve it.'[/quote]
and that is exactly why the more the western world pressures China and tries to use the Olympics to squeeze China, the more support the chinese government will get from the chinese people. the olympic games is not a political tool of the chinese government, the bulk of it belongs to the people, these people have made their sacrifices and did their jobs to prepare for this game. how would you feel if you spent one week to prepare for a banquet and to find in the last minute (with food all on the table) that all of your quests have boycotted it? this is exactly why boycotting the olympics will not get what most westerners think. instead of putting chinese in shame, it will only fuel the patriotism within them.

regarding extra benefits the minorities in china receives, i can only comment on education, since that is what i have experienced personally. there were minorities in my class, and i know exactly what they get:
1) cheaper university fee
2) additional marks for high school graduation exam.

let me tell you this: 2 additional marks in a provincial exam or SAT (for you americans) might not mean as much in rest of the world, but it can mean you will be placed above tens of thousands of people in china, a country with more than 1.3 billion people. these 2 marks can be your ticket to some of the best universities in china. about the fact how most tibetans in tibet seems to be treated as second class citizens with a crappy job and little money. it's mainly in their culture. most tibetans dont go to universities, despite all the benefits they get from being a minority. as a result, when the han chinese goes there opens a business or factory, the requirements for project managing positions are first and foremost at least an undergraduate degree -- something most tibetans do not have. it's simple and logic. you cannot expect and company to hire under-educated people for such sophisticated jobs. so in the end what do the tibetans get? low-paid labour jobs.

2 reasons why no chinese government (either communist or a democratically elected government) would allow tibet to be independent:
1) from a political point of view, if tibet is granted independence, then china as a country will fall apart. with a precedent, other regions such as xinjiang and taiwan will see no reason to not demand official independence. this is not only unacceptable for the government, but also the chinese people. therefore any government that allows the independence of any chinese territory will be denounced by the chinese people and overthrown.
2) from a military point of view, tibet lies directly east of the Himalayas, a natural barrier to any ground troops. india's close tie to tibet in terms of culture and india's close relationship with US will almost guarantee if tibet becomes an independent state, it will be under heavy US influence. this is something china does not want to see, since once tibet breaks away, china will no longer have a natural barrier at its border. the land within tibet is largely plateau, something tanks and armored divisions can cross really fast. should any armed conflict between china and US ever arises, tibet will be the main ground invasion point, and it would be extremely difficult to defend for china.
the two reason above can almost guarantee that the world will not see an independent tibet in the near future, and in the end these protests will achieve nothing.

the main anger among the chinese this time around is no long the fact that westerners are sticking their nose into the tibet issue, but instead the biasness of the news reports. there are many cases of western media falsify information, photoshop photos, or even placing incorrect subtitles for pictures and english voice-over for videos. the most personal experience with this biasness i have is the amount of focus the media put on the anti-china protests, but not the pro-china protests. YES, there are pro-china protests, bet you didn't know that because BBC didn't report it. there was one 2 weeks ago in toronto, just beside where the free tibet protest took place. out of 4000 news article results about that free tibet protest i get from google news search, only 2 of them were about the pro-china protest staged by the oversea chinese. 2 vs. 4000 this is clearly a biased focus. and in some way this is no better than the censorship the chinese government put upon chinese media. after all, if you have no prior knowledge of the pro-china protest and if you are not deliberately searching for it, what are the chances for you to find 2 articles out of 4000?

regarding ethics of journalism, i have to say when you do not have any information about an event, it is more ethical to not report it than to use false evidence in your report. such is the case of the tibet riot. all the western media claim they have no access to the region, and i understand there are people smuggling films in and out, as well there are eye-witnesses, but it is disgusting for media to use fake information in order to gain more publicity. and im sure they have their own set of code of ethics which should clearly forbid this type of action.

on a side note, the tone used by the western media is also subjective. they often claim every pro-china protest (basically the one in toronto and the one in london during the relay) is staged by the chinese government, one of the even stating the students protested in toronto because the chinese government threatened to cancel their student visa (which is absurd since visas are obtained from the government of the country you are going to be studying in, in this case canada). on the other hand they seem to be completely ignoring the fact that all the free tibet protests are staged by the tibetan government in exile.

in the end, the western media will always convert any news item into their liking. if the chinese in china does not hold protests, they call it lack of freedom of expression; on the other hand if they do protest in china, they call it a demonstration staged by the government. no matter how skillful and how much evidence one has, reasoning will always fail against a deft ear.

people always say the chinese government is censoring all the protests along the torch relay route. but have u ever thought maybe this is for your (you westerners) own good? if BBC (showing all the unpeaceful protests along the relay) is not censored, then don't you think that would simply make the statement of western biasness stronger? wouldn't the chinese people all of sudden be disgusted by the action of these people? (all the while the media calls it "peaceful protest") in some way the censorship have save the little credibility western media still have left (which really is not a lot)among the chinese.

No Im Right. Its cute that you tried though, you obviously feel strongly about the issue.

Buddy, don't try and educate me about the place I'm from with a wikipedia article.

China's dirty little secret? If you check on the news, Darfur, human rights, environmental issues have been talked about constantly since they existed.

Atrocity in Tibet? Which of you guys have even BEEN to Tibet, know anyone who has been to Tibet, or anything at all first hand? In fact I was surprised that anyone here has actually been to China.

Jewish people have a lot of influence in America, and they got America to help Israel to take someone else's land. But that isn't what this is about.

Really you guys can say whatever shit you want about China, but in the end: China is China, China is not South Korea, it is not North Korea, it is not Japan. China will try to be accepted internationally, but know this, China governs China, not Japan, not Korea, not USA, not France, not Germany, not Canada despite what some of you may think.
China will run the Olympics regardless of what you say and really regardless of what Sarkozy, Merkel, or Obama says, there's nothing you can do about it.

China doesn't give a damn whether XemnasXD or Jstar1 will watch the Olympics or not or what the **** they have to say about China despite what you may think, China doesn't even give a **** if Merkel and Sarkozy attends.

Truth is no matter what shit you or your leader says, you know that your country won't do anything big to back it up, like boycott Chinese goods for Tibetan rights and peoples rights, why?
Because it does you no damn good, because in reality, your government doesn't give a **** about Tibetans and their rights. Because in reality your government doesn't do **** for the Tibetans. Because in reality by yelling your ass at China your government doesn't contribute **** to humanity.

So before you shit about China's human rights flaws, just ask yourself 'what the **** have you ever done for human rights for you to have the Farking right to criticise others?'
Seriously I highly doubt that any of you even Farking donated over $100 bucks to world vision.

Right or wrong, but the **** are you going to do about Tibet other than talk jack on a forum?
N.O.T.H.I.N.G
You just feel the need to post your weightless opinions of China for the sake of it, nothing else.

Olympics ftw Asshole snuffers ftl It has nothing to do with the human rights crap. I don't have A tv right now(it broked) so What exactly have they tried to do to put it out?

i've been to several protest regarding the war in Darfur and other protest supporting the impeachment of Bush so don't question my stance on human rights. We get it your Chinese and we know our gov't won't do anything real about Tibet unless theres money involved. We also know most Americans are too shallow to boycott Chinese goods with regard to Tibet but to be fair most Americans don't know Tibet exist much less what happened there. All that is true and fair but never disregard human protest as worthless because the more ppl who band together to try get something done the higher chance it'll happen or at least the message will be heard.

This is a protest against the Chinese actions in Tibet. You can't defend that no matter how hard you try because it was wrong and anyone with morals and ethics can see that. It can easily be compared to Hitler stomping over smaller defenseless European countries. China is China and like the US they'll do what they think they can get away with to increase their power whenever they can but just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make Chinas actions anyless despicable and BTW if no cared if me and Jstar1 and ppl like us don't support China hosting the Olympics it wouldn't be all over the news and this thread wouldn't be here. Some ppl are taking more radical actions than others but until we decide to invade a peaceful country, massacre its inhabitants, and then act like it didn't happen and they were asking for it i don't think we've gone to far.

Im sorry for expressing my opinions on a forum....i guess i shouldn't do that.....

Lol XuChu, you're just one of 1.3billion Chinese.

FREE TIBET

China WTB Proper Human Rights

I've not shown disregard for human protests, there was a big pro Chinese protest in Canada that just did not get reported awhile ago that my friend went to. If you want I know where to get the videos.


What do you know about China and Tibet other than what your media tells you? Nothing, you've not seen it yourself neither has another very close to you. Just that already makes your opinion invalid and worthless, and from your analogy of China to Hitler invading other countries, you either read some shit and took a dive and felt very strongly for it or your just stupid. Really I hope its the first one, though it makes little difference.

I don't recall China begging you and anyone to watch the Olympics, and no where in this did it specifically ask for XemnasXD's opinion. If you actually think China cares whether you are watching the Olympics or not, you really need to think again.


Please don't, it'll make the world a better place for everyone.

Your right, I am just another one of the many Chinese showing support to his country, but us Chinese unlike Europeans, and in fact some Tibetans know what we are supporting, we've seen it ourselves, not heard what is broad casted on TV.

My government made ONE statement about China's human rights, and China didn't like it. Seems to me, Asian countries are the baddies.

Japan and whaling, China and Human Rights / lack of morals, Vietnam/Indonesia and drug trafficking.

To my understanding, I bet 90% of those sponsors at the Bejing Olympic games will be European/American/Australian advertisements/sponsor. Without people watching, why would people want to pay for sponsorship? Therefore sponsors will pull out, and therefore China will make no money from the games. *pitty*

How about all the missiles aimed at me? I live in Taiwan. It's not political? Craaaaaap. Ok the spirit of the games is not. Agreed. But 'rewarding' China with the benefits of having the Olympics is, imo, hypocritical to the spirit of said games. Blessing China and it's murdering government with the games is almost a worldwide endorsement of said government and legitimizing it and it's actions.

IF, a Falun Gong member from Taiwan went to Beijing Games, waved the Taiwanese flag and sang the Taiwanese song....(oh wait, if Taiwanese athletes go to the non-political peaceful games, they have to be called Chinese-Taipei, Taipei is a fkin CITY. 2. Have to fly a different flag, and sing a different song if they win.)...he would disappear. Like so many others we of course have never heard of.

Then Tibet...we know.

What about the genocide that has occurred over the last 60years in Xinjiang province? Forced female sterilization et.al. Teaser : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MJLRcTDFA

And don't get me started on the Chinese President. Was the chief of Tibet and presided over the bloody crackdowns. Yeah, get those militant, rocket wielding MONKS. Oh...he was also the guy who basically ordered the troops in to murder all those militant, rocket wielding STUDENTS at Tienanmen square.

But apparently to all us 'civilized' nations, with all our lovely 'democracy', human rights, freedom of religion etc etc, WE don't give a shit, so long as we can make shitloads of money by doing business with China. And the Olympic games is a great way to get our capitalist fingers deeper into the Chinese economy.

And before you go off on a rant that I'm anti Chinese, I'm not. I'm anti communist Chinese government. And to add to my point. My wife is Chinese, and so my soon to be born son will be half.