Silkroad Online Forums

My point: Atheists should not try convey the minds of religious people. Until god is proven not not exist(ed), people should be allowed to conform in a religion without being under constant scrutiny from Atheists.

This is why Agnostics > Atheists.

They are allowed to conform, but they shouldn't be indoctrinated as kids etc. They still are nonetheless

So you're saying they shouldn't have religion forced upon them as a child? I'm also against having religion forcefully put on a child, however in Australia, with a simple parents signature of a piece of paper can get you out of religion class. However I believe, if you want your child to have religious education, send them to a Catholic school etc. Then $$$ becomes an issue and blah blah.

I hope that was what you meant by being indoctrinated as a child - only being able to see one side of religious ideology?

Yep, it's hard to form an unbiased opinion about it afterward :/ they need to be old enough to choose religion on their own, at least that's what I think

Yes, that I agree with you on. Though, some children seem brainwashed when younger, as far as religion is concerned, they often snap out of it in their early-mid teens.

in every religion and everywhere over the world you have the "fanatics"
can't do much about it bro, that's just how people are.

So, we come to the arguments that say 'you can't disprove god's existence'. Of course I can't, I'm just stating the facts that show he doesn't exist. And then I ask you religious people: Can you disprove the existence of this deity if I say I believe in it and thousands of people believe in it. Look at my god, 'The Flying Spaghetti Monster'

I know you CAN'T disprove his existence if I say he exists, and that's it. Of course everybody knows I've made it up but you can't say it doesn't exist cause you can't know for sure. It's the same with god, many people around the world understand that god simply doesn't exist and I have hundreds of arguments in my favour but I don't feel like saying everything now
Igod, I like the quote and here's another great quote:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?", by Epicurus
This is by far my favorite quote cause there are hardly any arguments about it, it just says it all. Try to think about it

Religious people can't prove the Big Bang theory wrong. However, I'm sure you will struggle to prove Religion wrong, and with religion, God.



I honestly, don't see many facts you've bought to the table of discussion. So far you've been too busy saying religious people reject your atheist ideology.

Think of it that way - you think that your religion, I suppose christianity is the 'true' religion, yet only 3 bilion people in the world are stated as christians. What do you think will happen with the other half of the world who don't believe in god and didn't have the opportunity to 'experience your religion'. By your belief, they all go to hell even though it's not the children's fault their parents don't believe in god and your 'god' would send them to hell. Now check my last quote and try to think about it, that's one of the main arguments that I have against god. Why does evil exist???? 99% people answer me 'god gave humans free will' Well, that's just stupid. God doesn't give to all of the people on the world equal chances to make something of their life or even resort to religion. Many people don't have that kind of opportunities. And again I will say, you can't disprove that 'The Flying Spaghetti Monster' exists if I say I believe in it and many people around the world believe in it. You just CAN'T. So I'm not trying to tell you god doesn't exist, cause I can't say that for sure but I'm saying to you that religion is false, and by that I mean it worships wrong ideals and makes people all around the world puppets to someone's will.
Again, check my last quote

I'm sorry man, but this may be a flame or not, but I h8, u know why?, cuz ur ignorant and ur brain is condemned by society and their teachings

I don't decalre part of a scoeity teaching, all it is the truth

ok now tell me this, a little kid believes in Santa Claus DOES IT MEAN HES REAL? No! Yes don't be a smartass, I knew there was a St. Nick but really.

NOW i'M CAPPING THIS CUZ IM MENTALLY YELLING AT YOU STUPID PPL WHO CAN'T BACK YOUSELF UP IN A LOGICAL WAY.

GOD IS FAKE! GOD IS FAKE GOD IS FAKE GOD IS FAKE!!!!!

DONT COMPARE ATHEISM TO RELIGION, OF COURSE WITHOUT IT WOULDNT EXIST BECUZ PPL WOULDNT HAVE TO SAY THE KNEW THE TRUTH. RELIGION IS FAKE AND I TOLD WHY IT IS OK. DONT BELIEVE ME THATS ALRIGHT
I'M JUST WARNING PPL WHO DONT WASTE THEIR LIFE WITH RELIGION. ALSO YOU CAN DO GOOD STUFF AND STILL BE A GOOD PERSON IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN GOD, BUT PLEASE, JUST PLEASE, BACK YOURSELF IN A LOGICAL ANSWER

SRY I JUST HELPED WITH THE DEBATE, IT BEGINS!


^^^^
DONBEBEK U POSTED BE4 BUT WE GOT THE SAME VIEWS

You don't get +15 points of awesomeness for saying that.

@Blurred&RiceFarmer, Big Bang theory is not an explanation of how the Universe started. It is an explanation of the events after the start. We don't know how it starts and I'm not going to start making things up. It is rather naive to just attribute everything to a deity in the absence of a concrete explanation. Modern Science [afaik] has never been "Whatever sounds right is right; whatever sounds logical is right, etc."


You can't just go:

1. Universe Appeared
2. ???
3. God Did it

That isn't logical and no matter how much spin you put on it there are no laws that support "God." Your thinking is philosophical not scientific.

@Snoopy, tell religious people to stop trying to convert Atheist. If we don't believe just let us not believe. Double edged sword; your logic is. I went to catholic school for my whole life; atheist I are. "atheist ideology." Atheism is the lack of religious beliefs nothing more, nothing less. BTW Agnosticism has nothing to do with believing.

@asusi, so if a lot of people believe the sky is red then it must be red, hmmm.

I'll give my 2 cents on this topic and i don't care how much u flame me or say that i am stupid/ wrong.

First off, some background, I am a confirmed Catholic and my parents hav taken me to church on a pretty regular basis. I can say however, that i never experienced any feeling of salvation or protection from my religion.

Next, I think that we should define some key terms.

Religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.
Faith: belief that is not based on proof.
Belief: confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof; confidence; faith; trust.

Now here is my statement to you: I am the Supreme God of all pencil erasers and I will grant salvation to all pencil erasers when they are gone.
Could u prove that I am not in fact the supreme God of all pencil erasers and that I don't grant salvation to them when the are gone? I am real, even though you can't see me you can see the words I am typing. Unless you can offer tangible proof the I am not the God of pencil erasers then who is to say that i am not the God of pencil erasers. It works the other way too though, I could not offer tangible proof that I am in fact the God of pencil erasers, and no matter how much I believe and others believe that my religion is true then others could say it is false.

Of course some of you are saying that my religion is ridiculous and it can't be true, but at its core isn't it the same or similar to most other major religions. it grants the prevention of death. Religion offers one thing atheism can not, hope. You say that you hav lost the fear of death but if someone was pointing a gun at your head you would be scared out of your mind, although if I knew that if I died I would be granted eternal salvation wouldn't that make me less scared of death? You may say people are stupid for believing in religion and that God does not exist but a belief does not require proof if you believe that eternal life will be granted to you, even to a pencil eraser then it is true in your mind and all the proof in the world can not disprove it. As I said I dont necessarily believe in God but you shouldn't tell people what is true and what is not if it offers them hope, comfort and they believe it is true.

but see the thing is comfort and hope, comfort from what, yuo wont die and theres still a chance to live foerever, hope for what, to live forever? point proven again! it comes back to the fear of death, I'm tellin u ppl, god doesnt exist.

Just watch

Atheist vs Religion
Code: Select all

You have 2 choices; either everything came from nothing (which is impossible), or something always existed and created us. You have no other choice. Take a moment to think about that, remembering that it can not exist in time, that would be impossible. Time can not be eternal. Like I said, the universe started some "finite" years ago and it cannot come from this "nothingness."

About the bible, yes the bible has a lot of farked up shit. However, the bible is a book written by men in different times, and in different areas. The bible has nothing to do with the existence of a higher being, so don't bring it up.



Most of you guys are simply confusing religion, and the belief in a god. The two just don't mix. As one can see, I'm not trying to argue about the existence of hell, why does evil exist, or a "spaghetti monster." No, I'm trying to prove that we didn't come from a made up "big bang theory." However, I do agree that religion is a fake; furthermore, this has nothing to do with the existence of a god.

You've only proved that religion is a fake. You have yet to disprove the existence of a god like you claim.

Even I know that religion is stupid, and twisted.


So tell me something, what created matter, time, and space? What is the creater of these finite things, It must of been immensely powerful; I mean their is lots of energy in the world, extremely intelligent, I mean it did create life, and has managed to sustain life. It has even manage to CREATE all the elements to go about our daily functions. (Eating, drinking, emotions, etc.)

No, you don't have two choices. Atheism does not propose everything came from nothing [atheism or non-theism doesn't propose anything tbh]. The big bang theory doesn't propose everything came from nothing [there was a singularity iirc]. We don't know what everything came from we just know the process from right after "everything came to be" to now. We don't know "what caused everything to be." You may have two choices but I have a multitude of choices. Nonetheless it is still philosophy&ideology you're arguing. Once you understand the Big Bang theory I think you'll see that there is no real conflict between Deities and the Big bang. Evolution, big bang etc has more than enough for your higher being. IMO big bang should be renamed Universe Expansion and Growth Theory [UEGT]. Multiverse isn't so kind. >_>


An explanation that is gaining ground is [iirc] multiverse theory

<<@Debaters: No flames. Flamers will be warned.>>

With that typed; I'm done. I will be watching for flamers. =]

OK if u take my words out of context that much anything is possible. Just because u fear death doesn't mean God doesn't exist. Now lets look at what i really said, so no I wasn't proving ur point.

I haven't conformed to any religion. I'm Messianic.
Which is a cross between Christianity and Judiasim. I keep the Jewish holidays. Such as Passover, Tabernacles, Hannukah etc...
I do not keep the Christian holidays such as Christmas, Easter and so on.

My Father is the pastor of the largest Messianic fellowship *church*. We have about 175-200 members attending regularly.
Every year we host an international conference. with at least one thousand people attending.

Refer to the link in my sig for more details.

I came to salvation on my own. Got baptized in a river at the age of 13. Not as an infant. It was MY choice to become a believer in God.

I did not and will not conform to anything that contradicts my beliefs.

I've gotta run to Church. Let me get back to you on this either tonight or tomorrow.

OK then, lets focus on the events that happened AFTER the "big bang." I'm gonna ask you the same "simple" questions people ask creationist all the time.


Was anyone there at the time the big bang occurred? Did anyone see it? Did anyone smell it? Did anyone feel it? Did anyone taste it? Obviously no, so then how do we know that the process that occurred after the big bang is correct? We will never have a way of knowing, this is why the big bang is still a theory. Now, what happened before the big bang, despite the choices you claim you have, something had to create something to bring us onto this point in time.

Events in the physical world aren't supposed to "just happen." Something makes them happen. Even when a rabbit appears convincingly from a hat, trickery is suspected. So could the entire universe simply pop into existence, magically, for no actual reason at all, and create intelligent beings and a powerful universe full of energy?

Now, back to the matter, time, and space argument.

If you exist without time, and time is the measure of change, that means you never change, in other words, there is no past, no future, just an eternal NOW. This is why the bible states: Hebrew 13:8 "God is the same yesterday, today and forever" because he has NEVER changed, and he never will change. He is god, he is eternal.

Now, if you exist without matter, that means you are immaterial, meaning you cant be touched, you cant be seen, you cant be smelled or tasted.

If you exist without space, your are inspacial, or omnipresent, you are everywhere, your not bound by spacial restrictions.

OK, something eternal, omnipresent, and immaterial, created matter, time, and space.

We all know matter, time, and space were created, and the only thing that can create matter, time, and space is something that has always existed without matter, time, and space which are the properties of a god..

Something without matter, time, and space means that it has to be omnipresent, has to be everywhere, and not restricted by spacial restrictions what is this?

Stop making qoutes? Why? And apearantly religion is for discussion, your doing it right now. What do you mean people like me?

p.s: I could care less about god.



Ok, i understand what you said now.

Why do people say religion gives hope? Since when does inevitability give hope? :S

Vision gives hope.

@Blurred, space is a mirror into the past thus we have seen the formation and destruction of stars. We know planets form because, surprise; we're on one. We have telescopes; we can see other galaxies, we can see things that have happened eons before our time [ex.] a supernova 8,000 light years away AKA a supernova that happened 8,000 years ago. These are the events that happened after; do you deny the formation of galaxies, planets, and stars? Do you deny their destruction? Come on blurred. Philosophy doesn't belong in a discussion like this. BTW you are proposing magic.

1. Universe is formed.
2. ???.
3. God magically did it.

Logical, sure, lets go with that.

I don't necessarily believe in religion. I consider myself agnostic. So please don't put me in the same boat as religious people & I do know the difference between Atheism and Agnosticism.

The only people in Australia, who really try persuade people to join their religion are Mormon's and Jehovah's Whitnesses, and they're pretty easy to sweep off your door step. I don't believe that any religion should forcefully be put on someone, religion should be only introduced to people when their mind is mature enough to make the decision on their own as to whether they want to have a higher power to look up do. (Kinda thing).

@DonBebek I'll get back to you when I get back.

i dont even know why this is a debate, religion IS FAKE PEOPLE how many times do I need to say this? Ask this to urself, why do you want a religion, so some mystical creature can watch over u, heal u, save u, give u what u want? sry people, FACE REALITY, god or anything doesnt exist! nothing can exist that defies the laws of the universe!!!!!! NOTHING DAMNIT! I TELL U NOTHING!
Any of u ppl who believe in God are weak minded individuals : Reasons why u wont believe:
Fear of Death
Fear to change
Don't want to believe that u will die
Wont be protected
No hope for eternal life

YOU KNOW WHY WE WANT ETERNAL LIFE, cuz its our instincts
And what i especially hate about the bible is that it trys to tell you that your instincts are wrong when in fact its the bullshit lying son of a ......ing bitch
God doesnt exist ppl, get over it, i have and im 16, if i can, u can as well
Why need a "god" when we can do w/e we want.
(e.g. God lives in the stars. Well we went to the moon, and back in ancient times those were the so-called heavens")
We can do anything our universe lets us ok ppl OK
Now u wonder what makes the laws for the universe, well i dont know, but see thing is, I'm not going to say there is a God cuz I don't know, I'll just admit to it

your so full of it.
bet you feel all special saying "GOD DOESNT EXIST RETARTS"

+1

At some point you are right. But we've got your point, you don't believe in God, now stop it already. You're repeating the same thing several times now.