Discussion about Gays and their Rights. Mature ONLY! 18+ pls

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

Tyvm, Broseki.

strangelove · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 1255 **Location:** no

PhoenixRider wrote:

So do farked up people with different customs. circumcising women is a damned messed up cultural idiocy for people within the region that they live, it is not a part of Islam and is looked down upon as a monstrous act.

My point is simple and correct, there is no proof of a gene that makes humans homosexual at birth. I believe it is something that is learned at a young age and for that reason I choose not to accept it. People seem to disagree with me that it isn't something you attain at birth but sadly only state their opinion instead of evidence.

Also, there are a lot of things wrong with Christianity. This issue isn't one of them.

Believing something does not render it true. Belief is subjective and based upon personal opinion. Your opinion is just as invalid as those you criticize. Your preconceived, erroneous notions of this subject are useless and vacuous.

Furthermore, there's a lesson involving stones and glass houses that you should read about before attempting to fault someone else's beliefs.

MrJoey · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:25 am

Fug_Dup wrote:

Sharp324 wrote:

Obviously you don't read, you know people can have their OWN morals without it being tied to others. What special treatment are you talking about, i said to ME. MARRIAGE to me, should be between a man and woman, cause of what it means to ME. Idc what it means to others, it will mean the same to me even if gays are married. Just cause my morals don't make sense to you doesn't mean they aren't valid, the morals are mine not some religion. Like i said i just don't care what gays do, but marriage will always be between a man and woman to me. Are you gay though, really fighting hard for this, fighting against someones personal beliefs.

You must have selective amnesia. This is what you said, and I quote;

Quote:

More of a moral thing for me. I dont care about gays though long as they don't bother me. Marriage though should be sacred, between 1 man and 1 woman, anything else it doesn't count as marriage.

The bolded portion is what I'm referring to. A bit of semantics here, but the usage of 'though' in that sentence creates the effect of disassociating itself from the former two, exempting it from your initial clause. Conclusion; word your arguments better if you want people to stop trying to guess what you're trying to say. That being said, I don't care one bit about your personal beliefs, but I did find it interesting how defensive you got when I questioned them. Having strong or perfervid views on any issue doesn't require that you be affected by said issue, just needs empathy, as XemnasXD pointed out. But yes I am, and I don't believe I would be any less supportive of gay marriage even if I wasn't or would question your beliefs any less. And, "really fighting hard for this", really? Please, don't flatter yourself. These half-assed responses I've posted hardly classify as "really fighting hard".

MrJoey wrote:

I say we ditch Muslim/Christianity etc... and go back to worshiping the Greek Gods.

Pfft, it's all about the Norse gods. Thor, baby.

Zeus > Thor. I'm more partial to Poseidon though.

PhoenixRider · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 740 **Location:**

Fug_Dup wrote:

PhoenixRider wrote:

So do farked up people with different customs. circumcising women is a damned messed up cultural idiocy for people within the region that they live, it is not a part of Islam and is looked down upon as a monstrous act.

My point is simple and correct, there is no proof of a gene that makes humans homosexual at birth. I believe it is something that is learned at a young age and for that reason I choose not to accept it. People seem to disagree with me that it isn't something you attain at birth but sadly only state their opinion instead of evidence.

Also, there are a lot of things wrong with Christianity. This issue isn't one of them.

Believing something does not render it true. Belief is subjective and based upon personal opinion. Your opinion is just as invalid as those you criticize. Your preconceived, erroneous notions of this subject are useless and vacuous.

Furthermore, there's a lesson involving stones and glass houses that you should read about before attempting to fault someone else's beliefs.

You should scan my sentences a bit more.
If their birth itself isn't the cause of their homosexuality, then it's ultimately a discussion of choice and if society can accept that choice. The same can be said about letting cross-dressers who believe that they were born the wrong body in the opposite sex's restrooms. These are choices that are being made at one point of the individual's life and it is up to society to or not to, accept it. For many reasons that has already been stated, I choose not to accept it.

Goseki · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 3452 **Location:**

In that case Phoenix, you should go and look at the articles I posted. From what I've read and studied, homosexuality is most likely linked to birth. Higher population produces more stress on the mother as she has to worry about bringing a baby into an already crowded world. Stress causes your body to dump many hormones to cope. This will ultimately affect the baby. Since altering hormonal levels can cause sexual preference to change, a natural mutation can easily make it genetically link. Although the more common cause, I think, is due to the mother's stress level and surrounding circumstances. If it was true that it has to do with upbringing, than it wouldn't really explain how completely straight and sometimes heavily religions families end up with gay children, while children adopted by gays end up straight.

When society doesn't accept things, it doesn't eliminate them, it just makes them taboo, causing it to go underground. I'm sure many people were gay, but just secretly hiding it when peer pressure made it un-acceptable socially. An example of this process is "keeping it down low". It's very unacceptable for gay men in black societies, so they find ways to work around it.

BTW, I hope this won't end up as an argument of hot words, but rather a peaceful discussion where each side can post points, and the other counterpoints. See where we end up.

strangelove · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 1255 **Location:** no

PhoenixRider wrote:

You should scan my sentences a bit more.
If their birth itself isn't the cause of their homosexuality, then it's ultimately a discussion of choice and if society can accept that choice. The same can be said about letting cross-dressers who believe that they were born the wrong body in the opposite sex's restrooms. These are choices that are being made at one point of the individual's life and it is up to society to or not to, accept it. For many reasons that has already been stated, I choose not to accept it.

First of all, you're assuming homosexuality is not the result of a genetic or birth-related event, and that is something no one is actually sure about, unless you have information you're not letting the world know about. Second, you then assume that, because you've somehow been graced with the knowledge that homosexuality is definitely not genetic or birth-related, one chooses to be attracted to the same gender for some reason, as if to say that choosing a sexual preference is similar to choosing your favorite color or something. Being gay is not some new fad people are trying out to be attention-whores. It has been documented very early in human history. To say that someone decided that they were going to be gay knowing full well that punishment for homosexuality was usually death is intellectually bankrupt beyond belief. If someone who is gay, decides to keep their homosexuality a secret from the world, it does not mean that they are heterosexual. Plenty of gay people are living with heterosexual spouses because they're afraid or in denial of their homosexuality. But, again, it does not mean they're heterosexual just because they have a heterosexual life. In short, your prejudices are based on reasoning without merit that you've deluded yourself into believing are true. Is that whooshing sound above your head getting annoying yet?

PhoenixRider · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 740 **Location:**

Goseki wrote:

In that case Phoenix, you should go and look at the articles I posted. From what I've read and studied, homosexuality is most likely linked to birth. Higher population produces more stress on the mother as she has to worry about bringing a baby into an already crowded world. Stress causes your body to dump many hormones to cope. This will ultimately affect the baby. Since altering hormonal levels can cause sexual preference to change, a natural mutation can easily make it genetically link. Although the more common cause, I think, is due to the mother's stress level and surrounding circumstances. If it was true that it has to do with upbringing, than it wouldn't really explain how completely straight and sometimes heavily religions families end up with gay children, while children adopted by gays end up straight.

When society doesn't accept things, it doesn't eliminate them, it just makes them taboo, causing it to go underground. I'm sure many people were gay, but just secretly hiding it when peer pressure made it un-acceptable socially. An example of this process is "keeping it down low". It's very unacceptable for gay men in black societies, so they find ways to work around it.

BTW, I hope this won't end up as an argument of hot words, but rather a peaceful discussion where each side can post points, and the other counterpoints. See where we end up.

That's interesting but I'm skeptical of the test that was used to make that conclusion as using rats isn't the most reliable testing subject. But I'll look into that a little more.

Fug_Dup wrote:

PhoenixRider wrote:

You should scan my sentences a bit more.
If their birth itself isn't the cause of their homosexuality, then it's ultimately a discussion of choice and if society can accept that choice. The same can be said about letting cross-dressers who believe that they were born the wrong body in the opposite sex's restrooms. These are choices that are being made at one point of the individual's life and it is up to society to or not to, accept it. For many reasons that has already been stated, I choose not to accept it.

First of all, you're assuming homosexuality is not the result of a genetic or birth-related event, and that is something no one is actually sure about, unless you have information you're not letting the world know about. Second, you then assume that, because you've somehow been graced with the knowledge that homosexuality is definitely not genetic or birth-related, one chooses to be attracted to the same gender for some reason, as if to say that choosing a sexual preference is similar to choosing your favorite color or something. Being gay is not some new fad people are trying out to be attention-whores. It has been documented very early in human history. To say that someone decided that they were going to be gay knowing full well that punishment for homosexuality was usually death is intellectually bankrupt beyond belief. If someone who is gay, decides to keep their homosexuality a secret from the world, it does not mean that they are heterosexual. Plenty of gay people are living with heterosexual spouses because they're afraid or in denial of their homosexuality. But, again, it does not mean they're heterosexual just because they have a heterosexual life. In short, your prejudices are based on reasoning without merit that you've deluded yourself into believing are true. Is that whooshing sound above your head getting annoying yet?

I could say the same for you. You've become quite deluded and most of the argument you seem to be making has nothing to do with what I've written. To comment on something which actually has content:
What I'm presenting is based on the fact that there is no evidence of genetics playing a part in homosexuality, and with that being said you seem to automatically assume that it does without anything to back it up what-so-ever. All you used to back up your statement are insults and questions of which I've answered literally in the last post, I'm not kidding go check.

As for homosexuals going out with heterosexual couples it's quite simple. He/she created this belief within the environment he/she was raised in, people such as these usually lived in dysfunctional homes and bottled it up due to his knowledge of the hatefulness towards it. Of course another reason for homosexuality in a surprising amount of cases that I've heard of is due to fear or hate towards the other gender. I remember seeing stats on this, I'll dig 'em up later today.

Elements · **Joined:** Jun 2008 **Posts:** 218 **Location:** AFK

You guys are missing the point.... it shouldnt matter if homosexuality is a result of a situation while in the womb or it is something that the mind decides post birth. That shouldnt affect peoples choice to accept it as part of society and something that doesnt change the type of person that one is.

Simply because one chooses or doesnt choose to be homosexual shouldnt change the fact that it isnt something that should be treated differently from a hetrosexual relationship, because if you look at it that way then it will lead to people trying to cure homosexuality with electro shock therapy and such barbaric treatments like they have done in the past.

Whether it is a choice or a mind set that you are born with, it doesnt make you any less of a human and therefore doesnt give anybody any right to say that you are not entitled to do something based soley on their own insecurities or prejudices.

But this is all getting away from the original posts questions.... Most christians realise that their religion needs to change with the times inorder to stay relevant with a modern society. This one reason why religion is seeing a ever slowing uptake with young people. As they dont see it having any relevance to their lives. If religion is to move forward then it needs to embrace people of all walks of life and move away from its "teachings" of old and move to a more modern view, of acceptance and equality. The bible is not meant to be taken as a literal teaching but rather a guide of a good and honest life, and the bible teaches acceptance and equality.

There will always be a radical right wing of any religion that will stand hard on many subjects that really should cause any big issues. In the bible there is no mention from Jesus of homosexuality and how it is wrong, instead this got brought forward through time via the old prejudices of the time. However the vast majority of the religion dont see these issues of importance and take the bible for what it is and try to lead a good life through helping and accepting their fellow man for what they are.

Homosexuality is a subject like abbortion, it provokes strong feelings in people from all walks of life and perspectives. Both subjects are still new to the wide and open society and it will therefore take along time inorder for a comon ground of understanding to be reached.

XxDeeDeeDeexX · **Joined:** Jun 2009 **Posts:** 555 **Location:**

Its simple, if gay was a gene, we wouldn't have gays, it would eventually run out. Since gays cannot produce their own, the gay gene stays with them to the grave. Its quite obvious that if gay was not a choice, we wouldn't have it any more. I don't have a problem with gays until they try and flirt with me, thats when it becomes an issue.

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:46 pm

wanna sue ppl who disrespects someone's freedom

inky · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 4025 **Location:**

XxDeeDeeDeexX wrote:

Its simple, if gay was a gene, we wouldn't have gays, it would eventually run out. Since gays cannot produce their own, the gay gene stays with them to the grave. Its quite obvious that if gay was not a choice, we wouldn't have it any more. I don't have a problem with gays until they try and flirt with me, thats when it becomes an issue.

I don't get why a lot of "straight" guys are under the impression that gay men are always thinking of hitting on them. Let me break it to you gently: most gay men would probably reject you if you offer to sleep with them. Being homosexual does not mean that you lose taste when it comes to choosing partners.

Or maybe these "straight" guys are subconsciously eager to get hit on by a gay dude. Hmmm... :roll:

XxDeeDeeDeexX · **Joined:** Jun 2009 **Posts:** 555 **Location:**

inky wrote:

XxDeeDeeDeexX wrote:

Its simple, if gay was a gene, we wouldn't have gays, it would eventually run out. Since gays cannot produce their own, the gay gene stays with them to the grave. Its quite obvious that if gay was not a choice, we wouldn't have it any more. I don't have a problem with gays until they try and flirt with me, thats when it becomes an issue.

I don't get why a lot of "straight" guys are under the impression that gay men are always thinking of hitting on them. Let me break it to you gently: most gay men would probably reject you if you offer to sleep with them. Being homosexual does not mean that you lose taste when it comes to choosing partners.

Or maybe these "straight" guys are subconsciously eager to get hit on by a gay dude. Hmmm... :roll:

I don't, but a classmate who I thought would be a ok friend decided to ask me out, I avoided that BK for the rest of the year. I don't want to be associated with the gay community, I have no interest in pen0r or the Hershey highway. And why the hell would I ask a gay out? I'm not homo.

inky · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 4025 **Location:**

Lol. Maybe you were giving him the vibe that you're a member of the rainbow federation =p

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:21 pm

inky wrote:

XxDeeDeeDeexX wrote:

Its simple, if gay was a gene, we wouldn't have gays, it would eventually run out. Since gays cannot produce their own, the gay gene stays with them to the grave. Its quite obvious that if gay was not a choice, we wouldn't have it any more. I don't have a problem with gays until they try and flirt with me, thats when it becomes an issue.

I don't get why a lot of "straight" guys are under the impression that gay men are always thinking of hitting on them. Let me break it to you gently: most gay men would probably reject you if you offer to sleep with them. Being homosexual does not mean that you lose taste when it comes to choosing partners.

Or maybe these "straight" guys are subconsciously eager to get hit on by a gay dude. Hmmm... :roll:

Don't be so sure. A gay found a guy who is willing to sleep with them for free is like found a gem on the road.
If a girl ask you to sleep with her for free, would you say no?

inky · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 4025 **Location:**

NuclearSilo wrote:

Don't be so sure. A gay found a guy who is willing to sleep with them for free is like found a gem on the road.
If a girl ask you to sleep with her for free, would you say no?

I am under the impression that you would be willing to sleep with a 65 year old hobo with yeast infection as long as she has a vago and at least 1 boob. I'm guessing that's a 'gem on the road' for you.

You make it sound like they're desperate for some guy-on-guy action just because, in your world, every gay man is a walking id.

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:16 pm

ofc we are comparing ppl with same age, no default, handicap or sick. I just can't believe you took an example of a close-to-death old sick lady just to backup your argument.

strangelove · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 1255 **Location:** no

PhoenixRider wrote:

I could say the same for you. You've become quite deluded and most of the argument you seem to be making has nothing to do with what I've written. To comment on something which actually has content:
What I'm presenting is based on the fact that there is no evidence of genetics playing a part in homosexuality, and with that being said you seem to automatically assume that it does without anything to back it up what-so-ever. All you used to back up your statement are insults and questions of which I've answered literally in the last post, I'm not kidding go check.

As for homosexuals going out with heterosexual couples it's quite simple. He/she created this belief within the environment he/she was raised in, people such as these usually lived in dysfunctional homes and bottled it up due to his knowledge of the hatefulness towards it. Of course another reason for homosexuality in a surprising amount of cases that I've heard of is due to fear or hate towards the other gender. I remember seeing stats on this, I'll dig 'em up later today.

Tell me where I've said that I believe homosexuality is genetic or birth-related. Again, you're assuming that because I oppose your view that I must be on the opposite side of the spectrum of the argument. In other words, learn to read. The only thing I've brought to table is dubiety. I don't know what causes people to be gay, so I'm not about start speculating on that which I'm unsure about. On the other hand, the only two pieces of evidence you have presented are 1) Your opinion and 2) Since there hasn't been conclusive proof of genetics in homosexuality, then it must be false, even though research is still being done. While it is true that no conclusive evidence has been found, it does not make the premise incorrect. But you seem to think it does and present that as fact. For someone who wants conclusive evidence for things, you seem to hold a double-standard to your religious beliefs. Since there's no conclusive evidence for your god or prophet, does that mean he doesn't exist?

Edit:

Well this was quite unexpected
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^ This happened today. Hah, someone owes me $50 now, w00t!

NuclearSilo wrote:

Don't be so sure. A gay found a guy who is willing to sleep with them for free is like found a gem on the road.
If a girl ask you to sleep with her for free, would you say no?

Not necessarily. Not everyone is that promiscuous, lol.

Goseki · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 3452 **Location:**

ofy1993 wrote:

I lol'ed at the thread name because it's somehow ironic. You complain about religious people discrimating homosexuals yet you discriminate 18- by calling them immmature.

You don't have to be 18+ to be mature. I've got friends who are 16 and act WAY more mature then some 20 year old friends I have.

That may be, but there's a reason 18+ is legal age for porn, and 21+ is legal age to drink.

Besides, like I have any way to check that you're 18+ and not an 8 year old.

Silo, you're kidding right? Gay men will fck anything with a dick that comes at them? You must not know many gay people than. A friend of mine is quite selective as he's dated many guys but they just don't match. It's not a yay penis thing like you seem to be imagining.

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

Goseki wrote:

It's not a yay penis thing like you seem to be imagining.

Well of course. They have one themselves.

Midori · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 3425 **Location:**

Sometimes i wonder if people ever attempt to research. :roll:

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1925 (Written 1997)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_an ... ge_studies
(thats the tl;dr read version)

Isis · **Joined:** Apr 2006 **Posts:** 4171 **Location:**

What does it matter to you all anyway, has anyone been hurt by gay marriages?

Where is the proof to say there is a god, there is more proof to say there isn't.

Achilles990 · **Joined:** Oct 2006 **Posts:** 1338 **Location:**

Goseki wrote:

Grade 9 religion from a Catholic school? I wouldn't bother studying religion until you're in a University. Be amazed what you will discover was hidden from you.

I went to a catholic school for 10years, so far nothing has been hidden from me, expt that catholic church killed alot of people in the name of god(hmm I wonder who thouse that now in days...I wonder).

The problem with Christians and Gays is heaven, whether Gays are accepted by God not by us.

_Scarlett_ · **Joined:** Jan 2007 **Posts:** 1567 **Location:**

Achilles990 wrote:

The problem with Christians and Gays is heaven, whether Gays are accepted by God not by us.

And thus the problem of anthropomorphism reigns. They're not asking to be accepted by a deity...they're just wanting to be accepted by people. Sadly, that small fact just doesn't click in some people.

SN: I also always giggle and die a little on the inside when religious people assert that they know how their deity, or a deity thinks/acts.

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

I can guarantee half the people who have a problem with gay marriage wouldn't care if there weren't any marriage benefits for anyone in the first place.

Personally I don't think there should be. Marriage should be a strictly religious act.

Achilles990 · **Joined:** Oct 2006 **Posts:** 1338 **Location:**

Reise wrote:

Personally I don't think there should be. Marriage should be a strictly religious act.

Totaly agree with you.

_Scarlett_ wrote:

Achilles990 wrote:

The problem with Christians and Gays is heaven, whether Gays are accepted by God not by us.

And thus the problem of anthropomorphism reigns. They're not asking to be accepted by a deity...they're just wanting to be accepted by people. Sadly, that small fact just doesn't click in some people.

SN: I also always giggle and die a little on the inside when religious people assert that they know how their deity, or a deity thinks/acts.

One thing I hate is that one person loses someone like a family member they already think that God tock them, Who say God tock that person? God is pure good, pure good dosent kill, it wont hurt you.

Gays is like back in the 60's with black people we will get over the fact and move on...

McLovin1t · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 1825 **Location:**

XemnasXD wrote:

Sharp324 wrote:

Fug_Dup wrote:

If marriage is so sacred, you would think the bible thumpers would go after outlawing divorce first.[/color]

I said it has to do with morals, not religion. Thats what I feel, and yeah divorcing is stupid. I honestly dont care about one religion or the other, its whats important to me. And love and family means a lot to me. I would do anything for the one i love and marriage with that one is sacred to me.

And here is where i sit and think what wonders empathy could do for all mankind. That people who share such similar morals should find themselves on opposite sides of the argument is wonder and a shame.

It's called the veil of ignorance, look it up.. Everyone should think like that.

strangelove · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 1255 **Location:** no

A senator from New York gave an amazing speech today about a Marriage Equally Bill which brought up a lot good points so I thought I'd share.

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Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

Nice find.

She's not bad looking for 40+ either lol.

EvGa · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 2612 **Location:** Texas

Awesome speech!!!

inky · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 4025 **Location:**

Fug_Dup wrote:

A senator from New York gave an amazing speech today about a Marriage Equally Bill which brought up a lot good points so I thought I'd share.

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The bill will be reintroduced, no doubt about that. Maybe not anytime soon, but it definitely will.

The fact that religion influences the government, at this day and age, is something I find disturbing. I'm not going to the extremes to protest about the whole "one god"/"in god we trust" issue but it's really interesting how people turn a blind eye to how unconstitutional that is. Also, I'm pretty disappointed about the outcome of that vote - it's just proof at how ignorant people are; I really don't see any justice in limiting other people's rights based on gender because of one's religious beliefs. What I'm trying to say is, it's pretty clear that they're forcing their religious beliefs on everyone, regardless of our own.

Well, fucking hell...

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