Let's even imagine he does somehow do all the things he does. Then what? Things are just going to fix themselves, right?
Actaully, yes. That's what happens in the free market. No, it's not a utopia. There will always be human nature to account for.
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Because that's how it worked in the early 1900s when the government wasn't invovled, wasn't it? Workers were sure getting treated fairly. Working conditions were very safe. The food industrty was clean and safe.
I do agree that a LOT of bureaucracies and government involvement can be done away with. But many paulinas get completely carried away and become delusional.
_________________ <<banned from SRF for rules violations. -SG>>
Man Americans are so lucky and they don't even know it, all they do is complain all day.
Live/work(That is if you can get a job here) in New Zealand for 3 months and you'll thank god you're American. All of our stuff cost tons because it takes a long time to get them shipped, high tax (our tax is far higher than Canada), few availible jobs, low work pay.
Because that's how it worked in the early 1900s when the government wasn't invovled, wasn't it? Workers were sure getting treated fairly. Working conditions were very safe. The food industrty was clean and safe.
I know where you're coming from and it's a common criticism but we've come along way in 100 years. Not only in tech and practices, but as a nation too. You'd be hard pressed to convince me of a place where the free market would do a worse job than government. That's not really what this thread is about though. >.<
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 9841 Location: US - Illidan
XuChu wrote:
Man Americans are so lucky and they don't even know it, all they do is complain all day.
Live/work(That is if you can get a job here) in New Zealand for 3 months and you'll thank god you're American. All of our stuff cost tons because it takes a long time to get them shipped, high tax (our tax is far higher than Canada), few availible jobs, low work pay.
than your dumb for living on a sh*tty island with a sh*tty economy...There are far worse places to be in the world than New Zealand right now (Iraq for example) and i don't see why comparing one place to another place makes it seem less because you know there are places in the US that still have the technology, economy, and crime of a third world nation (US is a pretty big place try some parts of the south and midwest)
You make it sound like Americans all crap gold and piss cognac and live in diamond covered houses. NEWS FLASH what you see on TV is not in anyway a representation of what America actually is. So until you've seen all parts of the US lived in that rundown 30 story ghetto project building surrounded by gun stores, delis, and a footlocker and that single house out in the suburbs surrounded by a white picket fence plz refrain from acting like you know
/rant and sorry for getting wayyyy offtopic
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than your dumb for living on a sh*tty island with a sh*tty economy...There are far worse places to be in the world than New Zealand right now (Iraq for example) and i don't see why comparing one place to another place makes it seem less because you know there are places in the US that still have the technology, economy, and crime of a third world nation (US is a pretty big place try some parts of the south and midwest)
You make it sound like Americans all crap gold and piss cognac and live in diamond covered houses. NEWS FLASH what you see on TV is not in anyway a representation of what America actually is. So until you've seen all parts of the US lived in that rundown 30 story ghetto project building surrounded by gun stores, delis, and a footlocker and that single house out in the suburbs surrounded by a white picket fence plz refrain from acting like you know
Hell yea, NZ sux, I'm definitely leaving when I can, and sure there are bad places in the US, but there are even worse places in NZ. There are places in Auckland where daily you get gang fights with golf clubs and shit on the middle of the road under day light. Because gangs aren't illegal.
Of course I know Americans aren't all rich, but everyones easily got the opportunity to get rich, you don't get 30% of your income taxed away and if you earn $50k+ a year you get ~50% taken away. Obviously I have not seen every part of the US, but I've definitely seen enough of the US to compare it with NZ. Infact I've seen more of the US in comparison to a lot of the people that live in the US.
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 9841 Location: US - Illidan
XuChu wrote:
XemnasXD wrote:
than your dumb for living on a sh*tty island with a sh*tty economy...There are far worse places to be in the world than New Zealand right now (Iraq for example) and i don't see why comparing one place to another place makes it seem less because you know there are places in the US that still have the technology, economy, and crime of a third world nation (US is a pretty big place try some parts of the south and midwest)
You make it sound like Americans all crap gold and piss cognac and live in diamond covered houses. NEWS FLASH what you see on TV is not in anyway a representation of what America actually is. So until you've seen all parts of the US lived in that rundown 30 story ghetto project building surrounded by gun stores, delis, and a footlocker and that single house out in the suburbs surrounded by a white picket fence plz refrain from acting like you know
Hell yea, NZ sux, I'm definitely leaving when I can, and sure there are bad places in the US, but there are even worse places in NZ. There are places in Auckland where daily you get gang fights with golf clubs and shit on the middle of the road under day light. Because gangs aren't illegal.
Of course I know Americans aren't all rich, but everyones easily got the opportunity to get rich, you don't get 30% of your income taxed away and if you earn $50k+ a year you get ~50% taken away. Obviously I have not seen every part of the US, but I've definitely seen enough of the US to compare it with NZ. Infact I've seen more of the US in comparison to a lot of the people that live in the US.
ONOZ!!!! golf clubs...really, that must be awful for you. All that happened laster year that i can remember is some kid getting shot in broad daylight because some guy told him to get out of the street and he didn't move fast enough....but golf clubs O_O NZ sounds hardcore i couldn't imagine living in that kind of area....
_________________ signatures by Hostage Co. <3 ~PoP is DEAD! My sTyLe is Supa-Flat!!~
ONOZ!!!! golf clubs...really, that must be awful for you. All that happened laster year that i can remember is some kid getting shot in broad daylight because some guy told him to get out of the street and he didn't move fast enough....but golf clubs O_O NZ sounds hardcore i couldn't imagine living in that kind of area....
You better not start talking about Philly again lol.
ONOZ!!!! golf clubs...really, that must be awful for you. All that happened laster year that i can remember is some kid getting shot in broad daylight because some guy told him to get out of the street and he didn't move fast enough....but golf clubs O_O NZ sounds hardcore i couldn't imagine living in that kind of area....
WOW america sux people get shot broad day light everyday? the weekly gang fights is pretty safe then.
Democrat side I support Hillary and Obama. If either one gets into office, I'm happy. I think they'd both be good presidents. Hillary has a bit more experience than Obama, but Obama could revolutionize modern politics with his career.
Republican side I support McCain. At least he served in the military and was, I believe, a PoW in Vietnam. I'd rather have someone like that making judgements as to whether or not to go to war than someone who got out of the draft somehow.
Hillary.. I feel we get a 2 for 1 package here. Bill (imo) was an excellent president. He had the luck of the economy boom on his side, but he didn't spend it all on some crazy bill. Credit to him. I don't care what he did in his private life: it's how he was president that matters. And sure, he lied in court, but did we really have to bring something personal like that to court anyway and make a big deal about it?
I do not support Huckabee or Romney at all. Is it Ron Paul that wants to abolish income tax and increase sales tax? Cute, but I'll pass on that.
_________________ Thanks AAzumak for the awesome sig!!!
Liberal alert, liberal alert! Don't you worry your pretty little head AoW. When I get up tomorrow I'll try to reason with you. If you haven't already go ahead and read the thread so you can be prepared.
According to that calculator I'm apparently a 75% match in views with Mike Gravel.
lol And Ron Paul was at the absolute bottom. Still pretty much undecided at this point, I still have to be responsible and really examine the candidates separately before I'm satisfied. I am starting to agree that Paul is all about talk though.
Edit: After reading about Gravel for a bit, I can see he has the same stance on a lot of issues that I do. That calculator's pretty nifty.
Liberal alert, liberal alert! Don't you worry your pretty little head AoW. When I get up tomorrow I'll try to reason with you. If you haven't already go ahead and read the thread so you can be prepared.
Lol yeah I read the thread. You shouldn't be surprised at the fact I'm liberal nuklear---I made plenty of posts about Bush on IguanaRampage. Ron Paul I really haven't looked into much. I've been considering him as the type of guy who will merely take away votes from one Republican candidate or the other. And if Ron Paul really is the one who wants to get rid of income tax, which is what a good friend told me, I'll have to look more deeply into it, then I don't really like that idea. Congress is saying we should "give a 150bil dollar refund from tax dollars" to bolster the economy. However, this involves giving it mainly to the middle class to spend. If you cut out income tax, you're overtaxing the poor and way under-taxing the rich.
Oh, and on the Republican side, I also like Giuliani. Ron Paul is somewhere in the middle of my Republican candidate list, simply because he opposes the war, which scores major points with me.
_________________ Thanks AAzumak for the awesome sig!!!
...but Obama could revolutionize modern politics with his career.
How? If we had a dictatorship then I'd agree.
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
At least he served in the military and was, I believe, a PoW in Vietnam.
Because as scientific studies have shown, people that go to war can make better decisions. Oh wait, that's bunk.
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
Is it Ron Paul that wants to abolish income tax and increase sales tax? Cute, but I'll pass on that.
Yes, no. He wants to get rid of all federal taxes, ideally. Income definitely.
Reise wrote:
I am starting to agree that Paul is all about talk though.
I am starting to wonder about your sanity. Please explain.
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
[Income tax]...then I don't really like that idea.
So you don't mind if the government steals your money so they can spend it on asinine things like the war on drugs and the Dept of Homeland Security?
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
If you cut out income tax, you're overtaxing the poor and way under-taxing the rich.
Huh? How does getting rid of a tax overtax someone? They'll still be paying taxes, just not that one.
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
Oh, and on the Republican side, I also like Giuliani. Ron Paul is somewhere in the middle of my Republican candidate list, simply because he opposes the war, which scores major points with me.
Rudy and Paul couldn't be more opposite on foreign policy. Rudy doesn't want to scale it back, he wants to make it bigger. Paul wants bring ALL troops overseas home ASAP. Just to pick on Rudy because it's easy and fun the guy's a fascist, asshole, and loves to exploit 9/11.
The Fair Tax thing is supported by a few of the candidates. They plan to get rid of the IRS and income taxes by increasing sales tax by a certain percentage. It's a good idea, since the US was founded ideas like taxation being unjust to the people. Anyone remember the Tea Party?
Because as scientific studies have shown, people that go to war can make better decisions. Oh wait, that's bunk.
Because, as scientific studies have shown, people who have been to war know what war is like. (If you took this as a slight to Ron Paul, it's not. This is about McCain vs. politicians who haven't gone to war and support it)
Quote:
Yes, no. He wants to get rid of all federal taxes, ideally. Income definitely.
If you get rid of income tax you're taxing everybody the same...? Which would mean that to make up for not getting 25 billion dollars a year from Bill Gates, you gotta organize some sort of tax that will still get you your money. Nothing is certain but death and taxes. The government has to tax its people in some way. If it doesn't, how will anything get done? Do we plan to let some huge corporation build our roads how they want? What about debts to China? Will huge corporations pay that for us too?
Quote:
So you don't mind if the government steals your money so they can spend it on asinine things like the war on drugs and the Dept of Homeland Security?
I don't mind if my government uses it to improve sanitation around where I live, keep public schools up, improve education, make public transportation better, and improve benefits. This election is against other candidates, not Bush with all his crazy budget spending and departments and wars.
Quote:
Huh? How does getting rid of a tax overtax someone? They'll still be paying taxes, just not that one.
If tax isn't based on income, it will be more evenly distributed over sections of people receiving unequal pay. See above.
Quote:
Rudy and Paul couldn't be more opposite on foreign policy. Rudy doesn't want to scale it back, he wants to make it bigger. Paul wants bring ALL troops overseas home ASAP. Just to pick on Rudy because it's easy and fun the guy's a fascist, asshole, and loves to exploit 9/11.
I agree with you there. Paul seems to have a more defined plan on scramming out of Iraq.
Overall, I sort of see your point, but at this point, I'm still not in agreement. However, I am a bit biased. You'll have to really argue very well to convince me
@ Reise the Tea Party was against Taxation without Representation. Basically, some chaps in Boston thought (and rightfully so) that it was unfair for Parliament to tax them without them having some representation in Parliament to oppose it. Sure, I guess if the people want no taxes we can have no taxes, but having no taxes wasn't what this country was built on. This country was partly build on no unfair taxes that we can't oppose.
_________________ Thanks AAzumak for the awesome sig!!!
Because, as scientific studies have shown, people who have been to war know what war is like. (If you took this as a slight to Ron Paul, it's not. This is about McCain vs. politicians who haven't gone to war and support it)
I didn't take offense. I'm not suggesting that having extra knowledge is bad, it's just not necessary. That's why there are advisers, peers, and people in charge to give advice. War knowledge is the last thing I would care to have in a president because war is not something to look forward to. Frankly, since war is one thing that humans are constant at I think it's no loss to not have experience.
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
Nothing is certain but death and taxes.
After reading that I died at little inside. Are you so brainwashed with nationalism you actually believe that? I'm hardly an economist or historian but I doubt the early civilizations had such a concept.
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
The government has to tax its people in some way. If it doesn't, how will anything get done?
And this is where liberals fail. Government owes us nothing. Our govt was originally setup to enforce our freedoms and make sure people have a say. In general, govts were setup as mediators because we couldn't trust ourselves to enforce laws justly. Taxes come in where?
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
Do we plan to let some huge corporation build our roads how they want?
What's wrong with that? 1) We wouldn't have to pay for it. 2) If it was mismanaged the company would lose respect and customers. 3) If they do a good job the company gains respect and customers. Because the roads are a monopoly they don't have to worry about quality or money like a company would.
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
What about debts to China? Will huge corporations pay that for us too?
Great suggestion! That is sarcasm. There's enough smart people in the world, and I'm not one of them, that could solve that for you. I.E. I don't have a damn clue.
Nuklear wrote:
So you don't mind if the government steals your money so they can spend it on asinine things like the war on drugs and the Dept of Homeland Security?
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
I don't mind if my government uses it to improve sanitation around where I live, keep public schools up, improve education, make public transportation better, and improve benefits.
Why can't companies do these better?
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
If tax isn't based on income, it will be more evenly distributed over sections of people receiving unequal pay. See above.
I was thinking about replacing the tax with nothing, not another tax.
[AoW]ForLife wrote:
You'll have to really argue very well to convince me
why should america pick a president that will help a potential enemy?
Being a defeatist isn't going to help anything. Everyone's a potential enemy if you want to be paranoid. China has a large economy and it makes sense to trade.
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