Should the U.S. Have Dropped the A-Bomb?

Locketart · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 2119 **Location:**

Stallowned wrote:

Locketart wrote:

XemnasXD wrote:

no Japan really was exhausted by the end of the war. Another thing ppl forget is that the Japanese expanded to control most of the populations territory as well as parts of china and the rest of the asia mainland. By the time we dropped the bombs that Japanese only had japan left and some parts of china. They lost alot of ground and alot of troops trying to defend such a large area and they paid the price for it Russia was closing on on the mainland and the US was closing in by sea in fact we had already landed on the island when the bombs were dropped i think we captured Okinawa. The Japanese political and military base was the emperor If he had been captured or assassinated along with his heirs the Japanese would probably lost heart and surrendered they cared that much about his well-being but by then theres nothing they could've done.

I probably agree with everything you've said so far. I can't see how the killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians is justified. Not to mention Xemnas that most of this hate probably stemmed from the past when Perry flaunted his gunboats and forced open Japan's trade ports. What the U.S. did sickens me. Of course it hasn't ended there, U.S. troops have already killed countless civilians in Iraq.

So you're saying the alternative of possibly thousands if not millions more of dead japanese soldiers and civilians and us troops would of been better?

That's not what I'm saying and that's not what I believe would have happened if the bombs weren't dropped.

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:51 am

I saw some mention of Pearl Harbor being unjustified early on and i agree it was a cheap move but what ppl don't realize is that Pearl Harbor is exactly what the US wanted. The Gov't was begging to enter WWII but they knew the ppl would never go for it so they basically spent there time blockading japans trade and cutting off their access to foreign materials as well as a bunch of other BS. They goaded Japan into launching the first strike so that the people really running the show could profit off the War and the civilians would run like the retarded sheep they were and still are straight ti there nearest enlistment office and sign up for the war. If you really look at history WWII was an economic boom for the US not only because it provided jobs for the little guy but you'll start to see alot of the Wealthy US families make a real killing off the well killing....

Stallowned · **Posted:** Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:52 am

Locketart wrote:

Stallowned wrote:

Locketart wrote:

I probably agree with everything you've said so far. I can't see how the killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians is justified. Not to mention Xemnas that most of this hate probably stemmed from the past when Perry flaunted his gunboats and forced open Japan's trade ports. What the U.S. did sickens me. Of course it hasn't ended there, U.S. troops have already killed countless civilians in Iraq.

So you're saying the alternative of possibly thousands if not millions more of dead japanese soldiers and civilians and us troops would of been better?

That's not what I'm saying and that's not what I believe would have happened if the bombs weren't dropped.

So what would of happened?
We all would o0f just woke up one day and magically decide to both end the war?

redneck · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 2342 **Location:**

Hooray for WWII.... Brought the U.S out of the great deppression...If it wasn't for WWII we wouldnt be where we are today...

Nuklear · **Joined:** Jun 2006 **Posts:** 3272 **Location:**

Stallowned wrote:

So you're saying the alternative of possibly thousands if not millions more of dead japanese soldiers and civilians and us troops would of been better?

Like what was suggested before the Jap military was weak and stretched thin. It seemingly would've caused less casualties to finish their resolve then to kill so many civilians. Of course, this is just a guess since that's not the way history turned out. Correct me, but did the Jap ever attack our home besides Pearl Harbor?

Xyzzzy · **Joined:** May 2007 **Posts:** 2629 **Location:**

Nuklear wrote:

Stallowned wrote:

So you're saying the alternative of possibly thousands if not millions more of dead japanese soldiers and civilians and us troops would of been better?

Like what was suggested before the Jap military was weak and stretched thin. It seemingly would've caused less casualties to finish their resolve then to kill so many civilians. Of course, this is just a guess since that's not the way history turned out. Correct me, but did the Jap ever attack our home besides Pearl Harbor?

Did Germany ever attack our home?
Wars don't have to be fought on our front...

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

Xyzzzy wrote:

Nuklear wrote:

Stallowned wrote:

So you're saying the alternative of possibly thousands if not millions more of dead japanese soldiers and civilians and us troops would of been better?

Like what was suggested before the Jap military was weak and stretched thin. It seemingly would've caused less casualties to finish their resolve then to kill so many civilians. Of course, this is just a guess since that's not the way history turned out. Correct me, but did the Jap ever attack our home besides Pearl Harbor?

Did Germany ever attack our home?
Wars don't have to be fought on our front...

Germany was not bombed with an Atomic Bomb, although: It was still carved up like a thanksgiving turkey.

(I have been watching the discussion from the side, and so far don't see many strong arguments; just speculation. Is this even discussable? Its about History, and what is done: is done and there is no going back. The best we can do is learn from that and not repeat it. Pearl Harbor was not a strong Justification of war for several factors, but thats for another day)

Should the U.S. have dropped the A bomb?
~Honestly:I don't know, but what i do know is that we (the US) are still pulling the same tricks we pulled in the 19th century starting with the forcing open of Japanese trade post. Good old North America, apparently we are the guardian of Justice: Irony played to a fine tune.

Stallowned · **Posted:** Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:11 am

Barotix wrote:

Pearl Harbor was not a strong Justification of war for several factors, but thats for another day)

I hope I'm misinterprting what you're trying to say because that honesetly has to be a Farking joke if I'mr eading corretly.

You're saying someone bombing the sh1t out of one of our bases is not justification to retaliate?
I'd like to see this magical candy land where some people live...

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

Stallowned wrote:

Barotix wrote:

Pearl Harbor was not a strong Justification of war for several factors, but thats for another day)

I hope I'm misinterprting what you're trying to say because that honesetly has to be a Farking joke if I'mr eading corretly.

You're saying someone bombing the sh1t out of one of our bases is not justification to retaliate?
I'd like to see this magical candy land where some people live...

LOL, The act of pearl harbor is not specifically what I'm typing about. If it were simply the act, then retaliation would be Justified, but there is more to it; It is everything leading up to Pearl Harbor, alas, as i said: its for another day.

Jstar1 · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 4757 **Location:**

the atomic bombs are justified, we would have had so many dead people if we made a landing attempt with soldiers. like d-day, only difference is that there are civilians running at you with sticks

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

XemnasXD wrote:

I saw some mention of Pearl Harbor being unjustified early on and i agree it was a cheap move but what ppl don't realize is that Pearl Harbor is exactly what the US wanted. The Gov't was begging to enter WWII but they knew the ppl would never go for it so they basically spent there time blockading japans trade and cutting off their access to foreign materials as well as a bunch of other BS. They goaded Japan into launching the first strike so that the people really running the show could profit off the War and the civilians would run like the retarded sheep they were and still are straight ti there nearest enlistment office and sign up for the war. If you really look at history WWII was an economic boom for the US not only because it provided jobs for the little guy but you'll start to see alot of the Wealthy US families make a real killing off the well killing....

/tinfoil hat

Ugh.

As believable as that is there's just too many possibilities either way. Japan had basically taken China, so of course a natural action to take in order to keep ourselves "safe" at the time would be to cut them off. Yes there are people who profit from war but thinking they pull the strings like that is ridiculous. Calling civilians sheep for enlisting is just... ugh. I think you're a sheep yourself for flocking to this conspiracy shit...

l05tfr33k7 · **Joined:** Jan 2008 **Posts:** 970 **Location:**

XemnasXD wrote:

I saw some mention of Pearl Harbor being unjustified early on and i agree it was a cheap move but what ppl don't realize is that Pearl Harbor is exactly what the US wanted. The Gov't was begging to enter WWII but they knew the ppl would never go for it so they basically spent there time blockading japans trade and cutting off their access to foreign materials as well as a bunch of other BS. They goaded Japan into launching the first strike so that the people really running the show could profit off the War and the civilians would run like the retarded sheep they were and still are straight ti there nearest enlistment office and sign up for the war. If you really look at history WWII was an economic boom for the US not only because it provided jobs for the little guy but you'll start to see alot of the Wealthy US families make a real killing off the well killing....

exactly what i was just about to post a question...btw great posts xemnas
although this thread is very interesting i agree with barotix and nuclear on that most of all this is indeed speculation. we can not truly know what would have happened if we didnt drop the bombs. of course thats not to say we shouldn't speculate on what would have happened with ideas and evidence but people posting on the basis of speculation and then saying that definetly would have happened are wrong. we can only look at history and what has happened and is happening, not speculate 100% accurately on what would have happened if so and so didnt happen.

Jstar1 · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 4757 **Location:**

XemnasXD wrote:

I saw some mention of Pearl Harbor being unjustified early on and i agree it was a cheap move but what ppl don't realize is that Pearl Harbor is exactly what the US wanted. The Gov't was begging to enter WWII but they knew the ppl would never go for it so they basically spent there time blockading japans trade and cutting off their access to foreign materials as well as a bunch of other BS. They goaded Japan into launching the first strike so that the people really running the show could profit off the War and the civilians would run like the retarded sheep they were and still are straight ti there nearest enlistment office and sign up for the war. If you really look at history WWII was an economic boom for the US not only because it provided jobs for the little guy but you'll start to see alot of the Wealthy US families make a real killing off the well killing....

what are you talking about?? the japanese were planning their attack for months before. And so what if we blockaded them, they were already sucking up rubber and food from korea and china.

They didn't attack us in "retaliation" of our blockade, they were scared of us getting into the war, so they wanted to hit us first, specifically destroy our navy so that we wouldn't be able to influence the pacific war.

lucky that our carriers were out of town and that the japanese were too dumb to destroy our oil fields.

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

Don't bother arguing against what Xemnas said, there's a whole conspiracy theory behind it. We would be here for days fighting about who's right and who's wrong.

Free Masons running the US, Illuminati putting LSD in people's coffee, and crap like that.

Burningwolf · **Joined:** Jun 2007 **Posts:** 2583 **Location:** :|

XemnasXD wrote:

What most ppl overlook is that the Japanese military was all but defeated by the time we dropped the bomb. You guys keeping mentioning how we would've lost so many more troops if we invaded but thats not they truth, we probably wouldn't have lost that many at all. It was the Japanese Gov't which was still resilient to surrender as most of the military were wiped out, deserted, or had become PoW. The bomb was dropped as an experiment nothing more, the Military wanted to see its new toy in action and show the world what the US was capable of.

Even after taking all that into consideration was it really necessary to drop 2 bomb when one would've easily sufficed, keep in mind these bombs were not dropped on area of major gov't activity or military areas or even strategic points they were cites full of civilians who had nothing to do with the war. It would be like exactly like someone dropping a bomb on Detroit because of the war in Iraq, it would be seen as an act of terrorism today and it should've been seen as an act of terrorism then.

dude
not cool, i live their :banghead:

Pilot · **Joined:** Jan 2008 **Posts:** 670 **Location:** Above you

XemnasXD wrote:

I saw some mention of Pearl Harbor being unjustified early on and i agree it was a cheap move but what ppl don't realize is that Pearl Harbor is exactly what the US wanted. The Gov't was begging to enter WWII but they knew the ppl would never go for it so they basically spent there time blockading japans trade and cutting off their access to foreign materials as well as a bunch of other BS. They goaded Japan into launching the first strike so that the people really running the show could profit off the War and the civilians would run like the retarded sheep they were and still are straight ti there nearest enlistment office and sign up for the war. If you really look at history WWII was an economic boom for the US not only because it provided jobs for the little guy but you'll start to see alot of the Wealthy US families make a real killing off the well killing....

I have to agree with xemnas here. Although jstar is right also about Japanese motives for attacking the US, I believe the government had a hand in the pearl harbor attack. If Japan had not attacked, the allies would have failed to defend Europe and Australia, and America would probably have been in a pretty deep shithole if FD didn't take action promptly. So in the end, its still a major reason why we won the war.

redneck · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 2342 **Location:**

Burningwolf wrote:

XemnasXD wrote:

What most ppl overlook is that the Japanese military was all but defeated by the time we dropped the bomb. You guys keeping mentioning how we would've lost so many more troops if we invaded but thats not they truth, we probably wouldn't have lost that many at all. It was the Japanese Gov't which was still resilient to surrender as most of the military were wiped out, deserted, or had become PoW. The bomb was dropped as an experiment nothing more, the Military wanted to see its new toy in action and show the world what the US was capable of.

Even after taking all that into consideration was it really necessary to drop 2 bomb when one would've easily sufficed, keep in mind these bombs were not dropped on area of major gov't activity or military areas or even strategic points they were cites full of civilians who had nothing to do with the war. It would be like exactly like someone dropping a bomb on Detroit because of the war in Iraq, it would be seen as an act of terrorism today and it should've been seen as an act of terrorism then.

dude
not cool, i live their :banghead:

oh em gee so does my friend [forgot something Key-J]

Jstar1 · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 4757 **Location:**

redneck wrote:

Burningwolf wrote:

XemnasXD wrote:

What most ppl overlook is that the Japanese military was all but defeated by the time we dropped the bomb. You guys keeping mentioning how we would've lost so many more troops if we invaded but thats not they truth, we probably wouldn't have lost that many at all. It was the Japanese Gov't which was still resilient to surrender as most of the military were wiped out, deserted, or had become PoW. The bomb was dropped as an experiment nothing more, the Military wanted to see its new toy in action and show the world what the US was capable of.

Even after taking all that into consideration was it really necessary to drop 2 bomb when one would've easily sufficed, keep in mind these bombs were not dropped on area of major gov't activity or military areas or even strategic points they were cites full of civilians who had nothing to do with the war. It would be like exactly like someone dropping a bomb on Detroit because of the war in Iraq, it would be seen as an act of terrorism today and it should've been seen as an act of terrorism then.

dude
not cool, i live their :banghead:

oh em gee so does my friend John Lee

wtf how do you know my name and know where I live

redneck · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 2342 **Location:**

Novi Highschool class of 2010? Want me to name all your classes and your teachers?

Jstar1 · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 4757 **Location:**

redneck wrote:

Novi Highschool class of 2010? Want me to name all your classes and your teachers?

yeah so I can make sure your stalking me, and now your gonna call me nooooo :roll:

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

XemnasXD wrote:

Even after taking all that into consideration was it really necessary to drop 2 bomb when one would've easily sufficed, keep in mind these bombs were not dropped on area of major gov't activity or military areas or even strategic points they were cites full of civilians who had nothing to do with the war. It would be like exactly like someone dropping a bomb on Detroit because of the war in Iraq, it would be seen as an act of terrorism today and it should've been seen as an act of terrorism then.

Right, we would spend all this time and money developing these weapons of unmatchable destructive power and waste them on two strategically unimportant cities full of civilians. Even after the Japanese were presented with the Potsdam declaration, they didn't take it seriously, and that of course was their mistake.

Please, learn what you're talking about before you start writing. Hiroshima was not a simple town full of women and children that we savagely murdered. Nuking a town of civilians would be an incredible waste of money and resources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bom ... #Hiroshima

Jstar1 · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 4757 **Location:**

Reise wrote:

XemnasXD wrote:

Even after taking all that into consideration was it really necessary to drop 2 bomb when one would've easily sufficed, keep in mind these bombs were not dropped on area of major gov't activity or military areas or even strategic points they were cites full of civilians who had nothing to do with the war. It would be like exactly like someone dropping a bomb on Detroit because of the war in Iraq, it would be seen as an act of terrorism today and it should've been seen as an act of terrorism then.

Right, we would spend all this time and money developing these weapons of unmatchable destructive power and waste them on two strategically unimportant cities full of civilians. Even after the Japanese were presented with the Potsdam declaration, they didn't take it seriously, and that of course was their mistake.

Please, learn what you're talking about before you start writing. Hiroshima was not a simple town full of women and children that we savagely murdered. Nuking a town of civilians would be an incredible waste of money and resources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bom ... #Hiroshima

the only important thing was the japanese base in hiroshima

redneck · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 2342 **Location:**

[Whatever you say Mr.G]

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

The fact is they were warned, and they didn't accept the terms. So they got what we said we would give them.

Edit: Also just for the hell of it, what in your opinion would've been a better place to nuke then? Saying none isn't an option, since we don't know how many more people could've died in a land assault. Not to mention some dudes probably did in fact want to show the Russians what we were capable of, since we were already dividing Germany up.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

redneck wrote:

<<Personal Information Removed>> - Key-J

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Don't let it happen again.

Pilot · **Joined:** Jan 2008 **Posts:** 670 **Location:** Above you

Its not personal information. You and I both know you don't believe that. If it really were, you would have deleted the post.

Jstar1 · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 4757 **Location:**

redneck wrote:

<<Personal Information Removed>> - Key-J

omfg who are you tell me nao

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

Pilot wrote:

Its not personal information. You and I both know you don't believe that. If it really were, you would have deleted the post.

I can't delete post beyond my section. What i can do is enforce the rules and report post that go against them.

EDIT: and seeing how this is going, its only a matter of time. Kill it before it grows!

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:23 am

wikipedia wrote:

Hiroshima was a minor supply and logistics base for the Japanese military. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops. It was one of several Japanese cities left deliberately untouched by American bombing, allowing a pristine environment to measure the damage caused by the atomic bomb.

like i said there was nothing there. Theres tons of these kinds of places all over the US theres one not far from Philly in fact Philadelphia is a naval yard...not bomb worthy by anyone standards like i said This was an experiment by the US to see there bomb work on the field. Only reason for the bomb drop.

I don't like quoting wiki anymore but if you read the section on WWII with regards to japan it will tell you we had Soldiers on the Island DURING the bombing. We had already successfully invaded and captured cities so stop saying without the bomb we'd have lost hundreds of millions in fighting because that is not the case. Would the alternative have been longer, Yes. Would the alternative have probably saved more innocent lives, Yes. Dropping bombs is an easy solution to problems but its not a good one, we could wipe Iraq off the map but is that really something we want to do, no. Same logic applies here.

And btw you can speculate the reason why we got into WWII and call them conspiracy theories but any credible historian will tell you that The US wanted Japan to launch an attack so they could enter the war. Thats not debatable, its a fact and i cannot stress that piece of information enough.

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

XemnasXD wrote:

wikipedia wrote:

Hiroshima was a minor supply and logistics base for the Japanese military. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops. It was one of several Japanese cities left deliberately untouched by American bombing, allowing a pristine environment to measure the damage caused by the atomic bomb.

like i said there was nothing there. Theres tons of these kinds of places all over the US theres one not far from Philly in fact Philadelphia is a naval yard...not bomb worthy by anyone standards like i said This was an experiment by the US to see there bomb work on the field. Only reason for the bomb drop.

I don't like quoting wiki anymore but if you read the section on WWII with regards to japan it will tell you we had Soldiers on the Island DURING the bombing. We had already successfully invaded and captured cities so stop saying without the bomb we'd have lost hundreds of millions in fighting because that is not the case. Would the alternative have been longer, Yes. Would the alternative have probably saved more innocent lives, Yes. Dropping bombs is an easy solution to problems but its not a good one, we could wipe Iraq off the map but is that really something we want to do, no. Same logic applies here.

And btw you can speculate the reason why we got into WWII and call them conspiracy theories but any credible historian will tell you that The US wanted Japan to launch an attack so they could enter the war. Thats not debatable, its a fact and i cannot stress that piece of information enough.

Like I said, what would've been a better choice then? Those nukes weren't the only bombs we ever dropped on Japan. At that point I'd be surprised if there was truly any serious targets left in the mainland. Yet they still wanted to fight us even after like you said we had troops around ready to go when we did finally nuke them. We basically hadn't lost a single advance to Japan in the entire campaign and they continued to defy us. And after giving them a chance to finally STOP all fighting, they chose to keep going and dealt with the consequences.

You can't ever say for sure more or less people would've died because we don't know. There are tons of examples of fanaticism by the Japanese throughout the war against impossible odds that tell me they would've never given up until everything was gone. It's good they did finally surrender after the bombings or else we would've totally taken them over like we said we would.

The US and our allies wanted Japan to stop taking shit over, since they had already taken China. So we stopped trading with them, and what happened? Japan got pissed and attacked us for it. And look where it got them.

This conspiracy shit isn't fact, it's insane. It's just another piece in the puzzle people put together when they choose to believe the world is run by a group of rich white guys pulling every single string on Earth to eventually take it over. Yes I'm sure some people truly did want Japan to attack us to generate profit, that's what any business would want if they were in a position to. Companies make money off wars all the time. But to say they orchestrated the whole thing is complete bullshit.

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