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 Post subject: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:28 pm 
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CAIRO — It is unlikely anyone has ever come to this city and commented on how clean the streets are. But this litter-strewn metropolis is now wrestling with a garbage problem so severe it has managed to incite its weary residents and command the attention of the president.

But the crisis should not have come as a surprise.

When the government killed all the pigs in Egypt this spring — in what public health experts said was a misguided attempt to combat swine flu — it was warned the city would be overwhelmed with trash.

The pigs used to eat tons of organic waste. Now the pigs are gone and the rotting food piles up on the streets of middle-class neighborhoods like Heliopolis and in the poor streets of communities like Imbaba.

Ramadan Hediya, 35, who makes deliveries for a supermarket, lives in Madinat el Salam, a low-income community on the outskirts of Cairo.

“The whole area is trash,” Mr. Hediya said. “All the pathways are full of trash. When you open up your window to breathe, you find garbage heaps on the ground.”

What started out as an impulsive response to the swine flu threat has turned into a social, environmental and political problem for the Arab world’s most populous nation.

It has exposed the failings of a government where the power is concentrated at the top, where decisions are often carried out with little consideration for their consequences and where follow-up is often nonexistent, according to social commentators and government officials.

“The main problem in Egypt is follow-up,” said Sabir Abdel Aziz Galal, chief of the infectious disease department at the Ministry of Agriculture. “A decision is taken, there is follow-up for a period of time, but after that, they get busy with something else and forget about it. This is the case with everything.”

Speaking broadly, there are two systems for receiving services in Egypt: The government system and the do-it-yourself system. Instead of following the channels of bureaucracy, most people rely on an informal system of personal contacts and bribes to get a building permit, pass an inspection, get a driver’s license — or make a living.

“The straight and narrow path is just too bureaucratic and burdensome for the rich person, and for the poor, the formal system does not provide him with survival, it does not give him safety, security or meet his needs,” said Laila Iskandar Kamel, chairwoman of a community development organization in Cairo.

Cairo’s garbage collection belonged to the informal sector. The government hired multinational companies to collect the trash, and the companies decided to place bins around the city.

But they failed to understand the ethos of the community. People do not take their garbage out. They are accustomed to seeing someone collecting it from the door.

For more than half a century, those collectors were the zabaleen, a community of Egyptian Christians who live on the cliffs on the eastern edge of the city. They collected the trash, sold the recyclables and fed the organic waste to their pigs — which they then slaughtered and ate.

Killing all the pigs, all at once, “was the stupidest thing they ever did,” Ms. Kamel said, adding, “This is just one more example of poorly informed decision makers.”

When the swine flu fear first emerged, long before even one case was reported in Egypt, President Hosni Mubarak ordered that all the pigs be killed in order to prevent the spread of the disease.

When health officials worldwide said that the virus was not being passed by pigs, the Egyptian government said that the cull was no longer about the flu, but was about cleaning up the zabaleen’s crowded, filthy, neighborhood.

That was in May.
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Today the streets of the zabaleen community are as packed with stinking trash and as clouded with flies as ever before. But the zabaleen have done exactly what they said they would do: they stopped taking care of most of the organic waste.

Instead they dump it wherever they can or, at best, pile it beside trash bins scattered around the city by the international companies that have struggled in vain to keep up with the trash.
“They killed the pigs, let them clean the city,” said Moussa Rateb, a former garbage collector and pig owner who lives in the community of the zabaleen. “Everything used to go to the pigs, now there are no pigs, so it goes to the administration.”

The government says that the dispute has been resolved, but nothing has been done to repair the damage to the informal system that once had the zabaleen take Cairo’s trash home.

The garbage is only the latest example of the state’s struggling to meet the needs of its citizens, needs as basic as providing water, housing, health care and education.

The government announced last week that schools would not be opened until the first week of October to give the government time to prepare for a potential swine flu outbreak, a decision that could have been made anytime over the past three months, while schools were closed for summer break, critics said.

Officials in the Ministry of Health and other government ministries said they had not made this decision — and that they had counseled against pre-emptive school closings.

It appears to have been ordered by the presidency and carried out by the governors, who also ordered that all private schools, already in class, be shut down as well.

“We did not propose or call for postponing schools, so the reason is not with us,” said an official in the Ministry of Health who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to speak to the news media.

The heads of three large governorates, or states, in Egypt announced Wednesday that their strategy for keeping schoolchildren safe was to take classes, which on average are crowded with more than 60 students, and split them in half and have children attend school only three days a week, another decision that was criticized. There have been more than 800 confirmed cases of H1N1 in Egypt, and two flu-related deaths.

“The state is troubled; as a result the system of decision making is disintegrating,” said Galal Amin, an economist, writer and social critic. “They are ill-considered decisions taken in a bit of a hurry, either because you’re trying to please the president or because you are a weak government that is anxious to please somebody.”

Cairo’s streets have always been busy with children and littered with trash.

Now, with the pigs gone, and the schools closed, they are even more so.

“The Egyptians are really in a mess,” Mr. Amin said.



source:NYTimes.com

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:59 pm 
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Swine flu doesn't work that way, Egypt.

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Reise wrote:
Swine flu doesn't work that way, Egypt.
QFT

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:21 pm 
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jeez what a mess of a gov't over there...

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:26 pm 
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i imagined maybe an ignorant farmer, or even an ignorant mob of people acting in such manner. but the government reacting in such a manner is odd too me.

i also dont get why they are able to put together the resources to destroy pigs, but they cant put together the resources to COLLECT TRASH PROPPERLY.

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:06 pm 
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CeLL wrote:
but they cant put together the resources to COLLECT TRASH PROPPERLY.
Yeah! some efforts to clean up the TRASH don't hurt someone. It's Farking disgusting.

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:56 pm 
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a short excerpt from the egyptian government news letter in may:
*hey guys lets do everything we can to avoid the flu this year. lets start bye potentially ressurecting the black plague in our streets, and lets keep our children out of school just long enough that they can run through the rubbish and really get that shit deep into their system*

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:05 pm 
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You can blame the government, or you can blame the people that throw out the trash on the streets. Really, Egyptians do not give even a slight fuck about what they leave where. We were driving around in cairo and people were just dumping their happymeals and cups and even a shisha out of their cars.
The place was a mess, and it's not because of the pigs that it's a mess right now. If you think about it, what kind of place needs pigs to clean the streets in the first place anyways?
What kind of city is so foul that pigs are a necessity to keep it clean?

I'd feel bad for the Egyptians, but really, think about what the hell you're doing with your trash before you start blaming it on pigs.
I don't agree with the mass slaughter of the pigs, that was ridiculous, but you can't go on in life relying on pigs to clean your mess.

I know I am generalizing hard here, but for once I will not take back a word or make amends for it. Egyptians need to step up and clean their shit. It's not like there's a shortage of potential garbagemen, there's unemployed people by the fleet. Put them to work and make Cairo look good.
Even with the pigs Cairo was the dirtiest place I've ever seen.

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:07 am 
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wour... they pig owners cleaned the streets, not the pigs :S
at least read the first paragraph


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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:13 am 
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Just goes to show even further that stupid can't fix stupid...

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:27 am 
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woutR wrote:
You can blame the government, or you can blame the people that throw out the trash on the streets. Really, Egyptians do not give even a slight fuck about what they leave where. We were driving around in cairo and people were just dumping their happymeals and cups and even a shisha out of their cars.
The place was a mess, and it's not because of the pigs that it's a mess right now. If you think about it, what kind of place needs pigs to clean the streets in the first place anyways?
What kind of city is so foul that pigs are a necessity to keep it clean?

I'd feel bad for the Egyptians, but really, think about what the hell you're doing with your trash before you start blaming it on pigs.
I don't agree with the mass slaughter of the pigs, that was ridiculous, but you can't go on in life relying on pigs to clean your mess.

I know I am generalizing hard here, but for once I will not take back a word or make amends for it. Egyptians need to step up and clean their shit. It's not like there's a shortage of potential garbagemen, there's unemployed people by the fleet. Put them to work and make Cairo look good.
Even with the pigs Cairo was the dirtiest place I've ever seen.


actually pigs aren't a bad way to get rid of organic waste. If you think about it we just let it sit around, all of it just piles up. The only difference is instead of it piling up in the streets its piling up in a landfill that will eventually become too full. Now they have a group of people who for the past 50 years separated recyclable material from organic and then sold the recyclables and had the pigs eat the organic. Thats a really good deal. Pig waste could be turned into fertilizer and when the pigs get fat enough you can eat them. Its alot better than letting it hit in a huge hole that you then cover up and wait to build playgrounds on.

I dunno about the rest of that stuff with the people just throwing their trash anywhere, people tend to do that where i live. The only difference is we have people around here who are paid to clean up the streets. I bet though if you got rid of those people in a major city or even some suburbs you'd realize that people here aren't as clean as you're giving them credit for. If they were we wouldn't need public services like street cleaners and sweepers in the first place....

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:08 am 
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The US feeds a lot of food waste to livestock. It's pretty common.

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:38 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:10 am 
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Gross incompetence on the part of the gov't, I mean seriously? I know gov't isn't the best@ solutions & follow up but seriously? All the pigs? Seriously?

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:23 am 
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Stupid people...

I fuckin lol'd.

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 Post subject: Re: Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:29 am 
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do i see a lady in a burkha herding sheep in the city?

lol...

OnT: gawd the stupidity :banghead:


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