Silkroad Online Forums

whoo... been a while since ive been on this forum...

anyway, im sure everyone's had their complaints about rogues and wizards, and people have different opinions on them. mine, since i play a chinse character mainly, and dont have the most spectacular gear (+4 garms, +4 accs, +5 shield, +7 sword), is generally that these classes are overpowered, but only because of their buffs. i actually have no problems with other classes in euro, now that i have a lot of experience fighting with and against them. some of the cleric and bard buffs are a little crazy, but theyre not too terrible, because theyre mostly based around defense, and dont have insanely long effects that make them overpowered. the wizard and rogue, on the other hand, can just buff their damage so high that you have to use one or even two cooldowns just to counter their damage that they can deliver at any time they please.

let me explain what i think needs to happen...

there are two kinds of skills you can use on yourself or others as enhancements, buffs and cooldowns.

a cooldown has a cooldown time longer than the effect time. examples are snow shield, ironwall shield, bloody snake storm, bless spell, etc. these moves are saved until they are needed because you cant just use them all the time.

a buff has a cooldown shorter than the effect time, quite often much much shorter. these are very common, like grass walk, fire protection, ice guard, etc. these moves are used before entering battle and are kept renewed constantly to keep your character as powerful as possible.


what makes wizards and rogues completely overpowered is the fact that life control, life turnover, crossbow extreme, and dagger desperate are all buffs. meaning the wizard or rogue can just use them any time they want to kill just about anyone in one or two shots. it is possible to survive these characters, you just usually need to blow cooldowns in order to survive, which brings game balance into question - a cooldown to counter a buff. the buff has an unbalanced advantage, causing the characters who use them to be inherently more powerful than others, which creates problems in pvp gameplay. (and face it, joymax had a few nice ideas with the whole group pvm concept, but nobody plays this game for pvm.)

what needs to happen is these moves' cooldowns and durations MUST be modified in order to correct a mistake in this game. these moves need to have a short duration, perhaps 15 or 30 seconds, so that they can be used as a short burst of power to wipe out as many characters as possible in a short amount of time. rogues and wizards in large group pvp hardly ever last longer than 15 or 30 seconds before dying anyway, so this only really affects small group or 1v1 pvp. the cooldown for this move needs to be long, like 2-3 minutes, so that it cant just be used whenever the person feels like it.

with this arrangement, rogues and wizards would still have all their power, but would have a limitation to using it only when they need it, thus balancing the game a little more.




so heres a simple tweak in the skills for a couple classes that would make a nice happy middle ground between leaving the game unbalanced and probably breaking it by nerfing everything in those classes.

does anyone else think this might be a good idea?

You shouldnt have come back just to post this...cause most of the ppl is not going to agree with you...actually i think you're gonna get flamed..hard...if anyone cared to even post about this.

And i'm afraid i'm the first one lol...tbh...i'm sick of these 'overpowered omgomgomg' topics...Euros have no pots...Wizards die from a single hit or two if they're lucky and rogues also die fast even though they're str...when they use the skills you're speaking of, rogues are extremely weak..this is about skill...some rogues can kill chinese...some chinese can kill rogues..dont cry about their skills noone is crying about ur mana shield..deal with it and try to find a way around it...if you cant then its just as simple as that..rogues can kill you..while others cant..and you also can kill other characters that cant kill you.

Increasing the kool down time is not very fair in my opinion.

They have strong skills and ofcourse I would like to see it a bit lowered but it's pointless to post here because this isn't the official site.

Good point. I agree.

Damn..i'm overrun.. ..why do ppl hate Euros so much?

Think about it guys..if the cool down is made longer and skill time lowered..it'll be like a zerk and pvp will be extremely boring it'll be like *wizard goes in...boom* *10 second later another player comes..wizard cant shoot..wizard dead* "Damn i was a bit too early i shouldnt have used my skill so early"..it'll be like chess..

well for one thing, did i ever say omgomgomg overpowered D:D:D:D:

not really, and i do expect to get flamed. however, i think that since i provided reason supporting my opinion, as well as a way to balance the character while not making it lose its power and purpose, i should think that anyone who provides an argument to contradict mine should at least go through with the effort to come up with logical reasoning to support their opinion.

that was for future reference, not speaking to you specifically. this is what i have to say about potions:

the pot delay only comes into play if the fight lasts longer than 2 seconds - one second to take the hit, one second for the chinese pot delay. if the fight lasts that long, then the chinese character's advantage actually matters. if the fight doesnt last that long, then the chinese character doesnt have any advantage. the way rogues and wizards work, they are designed to end a fight in 2 seconds or less, so potions become a moot point.

wizards actually do lose enough hp for them to actually be vulnerable. dagger rogues, on the other hand, dont lose any hp at all. they lose a ton of defense, but still have 20k+ hp at lvl 80. i have never been able to 1-shot a dagger rogue, but they dont seem to have a problem 1-shotting me 2 times over if they crit. i would have no problem with this if these skills werent always used. these characters pack a formidable punch even without their buffs - and have some pretty good defense at the same time.

in my opinion, it would take more skill to use these characters if you had to strategize the use of your buff instead of just spamming it. im not saying nobody does, but the fact that almost every fight with a rogue or wizard just starts with one or the other character getting 1-shotted makes for dull fights.



where did i say i hated euros? i have a euro character that im working on myself, and i love it.

and what you said, i dont see how the wiz using its buff the whole time and just getting to kill anyone it sees is any less boring than the wiz having to actually think about when to use its buff. the latter sounds more interesting to me. in fact, ive seen wiz kill many people and survive many more hits without the buff on, so why would a wiz not be able to shoot without its buff?

edit: oh yeah, and i did post just about the same thing on the official website, i just thought id post it somewhere where it wont be totally ignored, on the off-chance some people actually think its a good idea...

stop complaining i have a level 76 wizard and have party played it up from 0. all the classes in sro are equal(well the ones that people would normally play example: pure int warrior-not a commom class) it depends on skill and equipment. also if made their nukes a 30 second recharge grinding would suck, you would do 5 nukes then have to wait 15 seconds(approx). i bet you can one shot a wizard and that wizard can one shot you. joymax hasnt messed up the programing of the classes there all pretty equal.

sorry if i might not make complete sense due to the farct i am drunk off my ass.

lol, go make an wizard and you will they pluses and minuses, if you lower wizards damage then they would be one of hated classes overall. You cant just take and nerf it ...

look, if no one can read my wall of text and actually gather the meaning, then just dont reply and make me have to reply back explaining myself yet again.

yes, i can 1-shot wizards. yes, wizards can 1-shot me.
yes, rogues can 1-shot me. yes, i can kill rogues very quickly (not always 1-shot, but pretty darn close.)

since when did i ever suggest that they increase the cooldown on nukes. i suggested they increase the cooldown and shorten the duration of life turnover. the skill that takes an already insanely powerful nuker and makes it so powerful that fighting them becomes a game of who-can-hit-first.

please, quote the words exactly where i say that with what ive said wizards will do lower damage.

if you read and comprehend what ive suggested, all that i suggest is a limitation on the use of these characters' power, so that the idea of the character changes from always having the skill activated, to using it when they need the power boost.



another thing to you: where does the assumption come that without the buff a wiz is dead? doesnt the wiz's hp and defense return when the buff expires?

does anyone here realize that a wiz without its buff isnt a useless character? i personally have been more impressed by wizards not using life control than when they do use it...

A smart rogue or wizard uses LT/LC or DD/CE spareingly. A smart rogue or wizard won't don 1v1 often. A smart wizard will use charged wind, followed by bind (and if you have snow shield: combustion) then finish with LC followed by Meteor.

A smart rogue will take out each member of a group with CE 1 at a time from a distance before they realize whats going on. The rogue will start with the most threatening member.

The Limitation isn't necessary, you're being selfish.

If you're going to target the 2 easiest builds to kill in SRO simply because all the noobs decide to buff~> invis~> one hit, then I'm going to target every chinese buff that is potentially overpowered.

Fire Shield: If you're not wearing a shield you shouldn't be able to us e this buff. immunity without shield? OVERPOWERED H4X.

arrow combo? guaranteed KB ~> OVERPOWERED H4X.
Using a hawk to increase AR and get DoT without a bow ~> OVERPOWERED H4X.
Strongbow is to strong, 2 crits can kill me ~> Overpowered H4X.
60% Mana apsorption? WTFOMGBBQHAX! Overpowered!
OMG Hp Passive gives to much HP ~> Overpowered H4X.
Glaivers have to much stun ~> Overpowered H4X.
Bladers KD to much and use debuff to kill to much ~> Overpowered H4X.
Ice gives to much def ~> Overpowered H4X.
Light gives to much magical atk and movement speed ~> Overpowered H4X.
Fire gives unrestricted immunity and to much phy atk power ~> Overpowered H4X.
Vital spots are to powerful ~> Overpowered H4X.
Why can Chinese use four masteries instead of just two? ~> Overpowered H4X.
Chinese nuker can 2hit pure str ~> Overpowered H4X.

Reasoning: Europeans are meant to be in a party. When a wiz or rogue activates their buff the party gets exponentially stronger, not to mention the amount of offense gained by the wizard/rogue is off-set by the amount of defense lost by that same wizard/rogue. This defense loss is then put into balance by a buff web set up by warriors and bards and clerics, etc. The wizard's killing speed and shyt def is the key reason why Europeans level so quickly, take away our wizard and you cripple all of us. The wizard/rogue may be able to oneshot you, but when someone 10 levels below that same rogue/wizard can oneshot them due to this so called overpowered buff then it is balanced. Europeans in this game are meant to be inherently stronger than Chinese due to a pot delay and their nature in PvM. Take away our firepower and strategic think tank and what do you leave us with: A civilization that isn't worth using because they level to slowly in solo and have a 15 second potion delay (solo penalty) and are best powerlvled by chinese. Is this what you want? Don't generalize because the noobs on your server can't PvP. Wizards/rogues are killed so easily with or without their buff because most can't fight well and thats due to them injecting a chinese spirit into a character not meant to be played that way.

There are countless ways to defeat a rogue/wizard, SRO isn't rocket science (or so i thought ).

PM Da_Realist i don't feel like explaining it >.>

They should take off the 1 min Snow refresh then.

Snowshield? Mana drought ~> Charged wind/squall ~> bind ~> LC/LT ~> Salamander blow, the Snow shield will be what kills you.

Irrelevant if it will kill me or no. Since someone said putting delay on LC and CX/DD will be like chess. I play chess in Job wars too.. since I gotta wait 1 min for refresh.

I guess you missed what i typed earlier: Rogues/Wizards make a huge sacrifice for their defense loss. Take advantage of the fact that they're defense is inherently low (yes it is because they have potion delay and lose 50%of their hp or Massive defense.. or both for an increase in atk power, and soon bladers are going to have a very similar buff. The blader buff will have much less defense loss, and I'm sure all the ints will call bladers overpowered for obvious reason.)

May I ask.. what did you do before snowshield? Wizards/Rogues are so easy to kill, catch them before they catch you and its over

Im a wiz and hardly do any pvp because of how fast i die and cant do anything on a 1v1 if i dont hit first.

but i do lot of jobing i die alot too but i take a couple of people with me leaving the battle with less enemies so my team can take the rest so i guess im the one to sacrifice so my team can win.

if any1 see that euro overpowered he should just make a euro
and i'll prove to him that i can kill him easily with my experience with euro

when using these buffs both the rogue and the wizard become extremely vulnerable and most ppl kill them in one or two hits. A smart player uses the skills timely and sparingly in PvP if at all possible but the skill is mainly activated for PvE without which the rogue would suffer greatly as it would do less damage on average than warriors and not have it tanking or staying power so it would be virtually useless...

don't be mad cause your ass is getting kicked in PvP, its balanced, there are ways around it, use them.

>.>

So you can actually kill them...and easily...but u just wanna limit their powers?

Sounds a little bit gay to me...just a little bit (no offense, its just the idea that sounds gay)

I think the game is perfectly balanced...besides no point of suggesting this anyway its not like joymax is going to change the skills just because u said so.

lol good, then we can debate and form an even better opinion by both sides
Even tho this cant be discussed because, this is all a strategy from Joymax so no point discussing changes, nothing's gonna change.
I do think European class is overpower, but it is only overpower if you do the right stuff, when a wizard or rogue can keep nuking and not get 1hit for example.
Stuff like tht

Imo, chinese are overpowered and they should have a longer repot time

its more like modes not a buff, while they have these dmg increaser buffs they are complete cannon fodder, most any one can one shot them back. They don't exactly fit the same niche as castle sheild or bless, they are meant to give a major defense increase to survive a fight. Similair to the warriors vital increase as a warrior mode it increases their hp but lowers their attack. They are more like a different mode vs a buff.

@topic start, i totally agree with you and i have a 72 wizard. I think life turover should be cooldown skill. They could still one shot those nubbies that spent 5000$ on full sosun but they would have to wait 45 seconds to come after me. I think that would help alot.

He gets it

a few replies of my own...


fire shield: shoulda been fixed long ago. i consider this a bug.

arrow combo: not actually guaranteed, it doesnt get it every single time... but what about shield bash?

hawk: same story as fire shield, should have been fixed, while on another point this is hardly useful unless you build your character around it...

strongbow: its not overpowered at all. its (350%), while a lot of euro moves go to (375%) or even above (400%). the bow is one of the weaker chinese weapons by attack power alone, so im glad theyve given the bow something that can actually do a lot of damage. and 2 crits? im talking about rogues, who can 1-shot me 2+ times over with one crit if i dont spam my cooldowns (and my char has 12k hp).

60% mana absorption? wth indeed. i am not familiar with a 60% mana absorption skill.

hp passive: how is 2k hp overpowered? vital increase gives 7k at lvl 80, along with a damage taken reduction.

glaivers have too much stun: warlocks have more. ive never had too much of a problem with glaiver stuns except when im terribly unlucky.

bladers kd/debuffs: what do you expect? without them, they scratch no harder than a kitten who's been declawed.

ice gives too much def: not true... not true at all...

light mag atk/speed: bards give more. much more. in fact, the difference in magic attack from lvl 60 light to lvl 80 is only 2%. the movement speed at lvl 80 isnt hardly more than 70%, while a bard can buff an entire party 90%.

fire immunity and phy atk: immunity actually doesnt do much except cause momentary pauses from ice and save money on pills. the statuses that you cant be immune to are much better than the normal ones anyway. as for phy atk, i believe warriors get a much larger boost from war cry, and rogues... 75% is a ton larger than the 17% from fire.

vital spots: i just dont know anything about these. ive only ever seen one character use them. consider me ignorant.

chinese four masteries: they goddamn need em. its that simple. euros can still kick a ton of butt with one mastery... a chinese with one mastery is as useless as a feather paperweight. two masteries might be able to kill something, three makes a decent character, but without four, the chinese character has a handicap. the number of masteries is irrelevant because chinese characters are structured differently than euro characters. for instance: the way euro characters are structured, the warrior has 3 weapons plus general warrior skills in one mastery. the way chinese characters are structured, that would be split into a mastery for each weapon, plus a fourth for general warrior skills. four masteries in the chinese organization method just for a full warrior. all euro classes have skills in different categories - theyre just in one mastery. chinese categories of skills are split into masteries, therefore they need to be able to use more to be competent.


chinese nuker can 2-hit pure str: i hope youre not talking about a chinese pure str. if they can, then... that pure str pretty much sucks. ive never seen it. in fact, ive seen more of pure str 2-hitting pure int than the other way around, due to lucky crits.





i agree that there isnt hardly a point... i never expect joymax to do anything unless it gets them more money.

perhaps i should suggest that they create a $100 premium that makes you have +100% phys/mag defense and -100% damage taken? they might actually do that. it'd get them a ton of money

[/sarcasm]

the problem is that the ability to kill them doesnt mean that i'll be able to do it even 50% of the time before ive fallen myself.

Point proven: Any attempt to show another class or skill as overpowered is easily debunked. Foudre hit it spot on. PM Da_Realist he can teach you or at least tell you all the theoretical stuff to prevent rogues and wizards from owning you. My flamboyant typing in that post didn't give you reason enough to take it as sarcasm.

Read my Reasoning, Read Foudre's reasoning, and go to http://www.konpaku.com.br you're slightly misinformed on certain Europe skills.

PS; I wasn't talking from an 80 cap PoV
I predict 90 and 100 cap to be a time where GD will be filled with "Bladers are Overpowered" threads. Come on the OMGWTFBBQHAX should have given the sarcasm away

EDIT: I sure as hell was not talking about a Chinese Character. Catch a pure str 2h in armor off guard and you got a dead warrior T.T

i never understood why warriors even bother wearing armor...

would you ever see a glaiver in armor? (well actually ive seen a few but they all fall to int faster than you can say owned.)


well, now that ive slept and woken up after being awake till 4 am, im not quite as annoyed as i was last night......

i guess the real issue i would like addressed is not that these skills are too powerful, its that it seems like any noob using them thinks that since its a buff and you have to use cooldowns to counter it, that somehow a fair 1v1 fight is allowing them to own you straight till next week.

id just like to see them modified into cooldowns, even if its 30 sec effect 1m cooldown, so that there is at least some thought involved in using them besides "OMFGWAH I PWONZOR JOO LUL" so noobs cant just go gank characters that are lvl 80 full farmed and think that theyre cool...

i agree that a smart rogue/wiz will only use the skills when theyre needed, which is something im very happy about... its just too bad that most rogues/wiz arent smart, why cant they tailor the skill so that you have to be smart to use it -.-

the problem is u'r taking this from a 1v1 point of view, which doesn't work well with euros. wizards do shitloads of damage, but they're fkin twigs, rogues are also weak.

why do warriors wear heavy armor? they're limited to only that if they only took warrior mastery, which means that if warriors want to wear robes or light armor, they have to take a caster or buffer mastery. when party lvling, warriors wearing heavy armor isn't so weird, cuz all they need to to do is aggro and tank.

Its pretty simple for me. With 10.8k hp a 80 wizard nukes me 16k with life control. That is what I do before snow shield.

with 10.8k hp I stand with fire wall, get hit 0 and use dragon flow to kill the wizard that has about 4k hp before it can charge its second nuke. ^^ yep i know how simple it is

although there is an easy counter to Firewall and there is a counter to that counter.