I'm not talking in 1v1 stand point you Farking idiot. I'm talking in an overall stand point. At 120 Wizards deal maybe 5% more damage than a Chinese Nuker but that is only possible if they sacrifice half their HP where as Chinese Nukers never have to and thus are strong in both Parties and Solo. It is not worth sacrificing half you HP even if he is well protected because he can still be 1 hit. Don't you get that?
You are trying to say that a character with half the HP is worth it more because they deal maybe 5% damage than the character who has double the health of it and deals only 5% less damage... Right now I can see how you can think that because they deal around 15% more damage but they don't become stronger where as the Chinese Nukers do almost to the point where they over power the Wizards. Don't you get it? Wizard = 1/2 HP + 5% More Damage Than Chinese Nuker < Chinese Nuker = Full HP + 5% Less Damage Than Wizard ________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ultimate Party at 120 for PvE is Euro Easily. 6 Wizards 2 Bards = 100% Absorption of Physical Damage + Unlimited Mana + Mana Consumption Reduction + Magical Damage Boost + Hit Ratio Boost is god IMO.
But for PvP it is definitely a Mix Party. Bow KB is so ridiculous after you get your 2nd KB combo that they are pretty much a necessity in all parties. Chinese Nukers are a more defensive build with only a little bit of reduction on damage compared to Wizard. Warriors are required to protect everyone. Cleric.(Lol) Party is able to move efficiently without being killed. Does not depend on Bard buffs. Can stop Bard buffs and has an efficient defense and offense.
2 Warriors 3 Chinese Nukers 2 Bows 1 Cleric
And i already stated that I'm talking from a 80 cap standpoint, but you don't realize that a Chinese Nuker's one Nuke won't AoE an entire group of enemies. I only used 120 cap stats to show that Wizard is still King of the hill dmg-wise
You like many other players look at dmg alone and don't look at skills to comprehend the complexities of a european party. A European Nuker brings more to the table whilst a Chinese Nuker only brings dmg. The Wizards defensive weakness is complimented by the Bard Cleric and Warrior who are defensive builds. As i said if i had any other tag in my location you wouldn't attempt to Debunk most of my statements which have been backed up by past arguments.
I want the one that brings more to the table, I look at several factors not 1 factor: you still have the Chinese "DmG is King" mentality, while i have adapted to: "Teamwork is King".
The wizard has 42% absorbtion (Defense) Fear Insane KB Group Invisible Insane Dmg That Consistently hits in the same range. Several AoE that blow away the Chinese Fire Nukes. 4 Elements. Versatility.
What does a chinese nuker have? Insane DMG, that ISN'T CONSISTENT! And a Stand Alone def.
Why wait for later caps when everything you mentioned is here NOW! Thx to every European build, everything that was mentioned Insane Bow KB is HERE NOW! Jesus Christ, and you have the nerve to call me an idiot "Mr. i don't look beyond dmg"
Insane Bow KB? i say: Insane Wizard or Warrior KB. Warriors are not the Only one who can defend. Every European build has defensive buffs or skills that keep everyone alive.
@Nuclear, the bow combo spamming: does not make Cleric Heal useless unless the warrior dies -_- @Blood, just let go: DMG is not God*, and once again: why so serious? Your response: "I Have a grudge against Venus and Avalon" My response: "Why?" Your Response: "Because they think they're the shit and know it all, for that reason i will continuously badger any one with a Venus Tag, even though my arguments are pointless and show a massive lack of knowledge and misunderstanding of the European Party System"
Why have so many different builds, all with strs and weakness if you won't use them all to compliment each other? Of course you will be back with some asinine statement, keep in mind: i can't take you seriously because you're arguing only because you hate Venus and Avalon, while I'm arguing because I'm trying to play sro, damn traffic
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Last edited by Barotix on Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I find Warrior and cleric's defensive buffs to be grossly OP'd. A wizard was running around with both of the buffs tanking the whole cape army owning everyone, the defense buff is a good idea, but they're just TOO HIGH to make chinese chars even really worth it anymore.
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Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 1011 Location: I can't play.
Ok so you are saying that Wizard is the worse build and you are only using it because it has better AoE, Fear, Invisible and KB.
AoE means shit. Chinese have more AoE and will cast their AoE spells more often then a Wizard can cast his AoE. AoE is more important in PvE where as you have Healing Orbit to take care of anyone so direct damage to 1 person is more important than how much damage you are doing to the 5 people which will be healed by Healing Orbit.
Fear is stupid. Only lasts 10 seconds, Doesn't prevent the other team from hurting you completely or your allies and is a waste of cast time.
Party Invisible is only good if the enemy doesn't know you are their or going to be there and since it isn't able to be kept up permanently it is pointless because it probably won't work.
Wizard KB sucks takes to long to cast and has a long recharge... Only good if someone is getting gangbanged....
You defending Wizards is showing you are supporting damage not me. I am supporting the character that does less damage and has a better defense and therefore is better because it takes less to keep it up where as your whole party is centered around protecting your Wizards. I instead can use the rest of my party to my advantage and actually deal more direct support to shutting down your team instead of having to sit their protecting my Wizards while they try to kill the other team but cannot do anything. I am supporting the team that allows me to actually do something instead of just deal damage. And Chinese Nukers deal more consistent damage with Shouts and nukes which they can cast more often where Wizards just have Huge nukes which they get off every 3-5 seconds or so.
THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU Farking SAY BEFORE YOU SAY IT OMFG...
Ok so you are saying that Wizard is the worse build and you are only using it because it has better AoE, Fear, Invisible and KB.
AoE means shit. Chinese have more AoE and will cast their AoE spells more often then a Wizard can cast his AoE. AoE is more important in PvE where as you have Healing Orbit to take care of anyone so direct damage to 1 person is more important than how much damage you are doing to the 5 people which will be healed by Healing Orbit.
Fear is stupid. Only lasts 10 seconds, Doesn't prevent the other team from hurting you completely or your allies and is a waste of cast time.
Party Invisible is only good if the enemy doesn't know you are their or going to be there and since it isn't able to be kept up permanently it is pointless because it probably won't work.
Wizard KB sucks takes to long to cast and has a long recharge... Only good if someone is getting gangbanged....
You defending Wizards is showing you are supporting damage not me. I am supporting the character that does less damage and has a better defense and therefore is better because it takes less to keep it up where as your whole party is centered around protecting your Wizards. I instead can use the rest of my party to my advantage and actually deal more direct support to shutting down your team instead of having to sit their protecting my Wizards while they try to kill the other team but cannot do anything. I am supporting the team that allows me to actually do something instead of just deal damage. And Chinese Nukers deal more consistent damage with Shouts and nukes which they can cast more often where Wizards just have Huge nukes which they get off every 3-5 seconds or so.
THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU Farking SAY BEFORE YOU SAY IT OMFG...
AoE is great for sticky situations. Fear stupid? Lightning Impact: Lvl 76 Surrounding 12.0M (simultaneous 5) Fear lvl 8 (Probability 80%, 10 seconds) DEFENSE!
Charged Squall/Wind: lvl 80 Surrounding 10.0 (simultaneous 5) reduce 35% Knock, back probability 80% 6 times DEFENSE!
Mana drought: lvl 76 Front 8.0m (simultaneous 3) Combustion lvl 8 (probability 80%, 30 seconds) Gives a 4 second delay in HP and MP potions, this is an anti - chinese move.
Mesh root: lvl 76 Front: 5.0 m (simultaneous 3) Bind lvl 8 (probability 80%, 10 seconds) more DEFENSE!
Wizard has greater range than Chinese Nuker and shorter cast time, it also has more Party Friendly moves, dude you wrote a wizard guide FFS you should see my point of view easily.
I'm going with the better defensive one, you're going with dmg and stand alone defense. As i said the Chinese Nuker brings nothing to the table that would make me choose it over a Wizard.
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 1011 Location: I can't play.
Read my Farking guide then. I don't take Root, Fear, or Combustion and KB is optional. Farking Holy Spell GG!
Your whole party is centered around protecting your Wizards so they can deal damage. What happens when you remove that need? You open up the positions in your party for shutdown and more damage builds. Simply enough changing your damage dealers to Chinese nukers will allow that to happen. It is an overall safer and stronger build to use resulting in more damage from more damage dealers. There is no point to your build other than its ability to PvE and its ability to Deal Daamge. Your whole build revolves around 3 of the weakest builds in the game which can be killed fully buffed with absolute and normally buffed with nukes and attacks...
Read my Farking guide then. I don't take Root, Fear, or Combustion and KB is optional. Farking Holy Spell GG!
Your whole party is centered around protecting your Wizards so they can deal damage. What happens when you remove that need? You open up the positions in your party for shutdown and more damage builds. Simply enough changing your damage dealers to Chinese nukers will allow that to happen. It is an overall safer and stronger build to use resulting in more damage from more damage dealers. There is no point to your build other than its ability to PvE and its ability to Deal Daamge. Your whole build revolves around 3 of the weakest builds in the game which can be killed fully buffed with absolute and normally buffed with nukes and attacks...
lol, I'd like to see you try and kill any of my units. The reason europeans have str and weaknesses is to compliment each other. One does its part to help the whole party overall. What you want to do is remove anything you think is weak and in the process make your party weaker. I have been on the defensive and your offense is quite pathetic. You have not rationalized what makes your party better than mine, but since you're so hell bent on proving your point, tell me what does each Chinese Build in your party bring to the table that is better than what my Builds bring, because i can assure you with 100% certainty the European Party is better than the Chinese party.
Of course The weaker builds def wise will be protected by the stronger builds defense wise. You're just replacing one dmg dealer with another: pointless, your dmg dealer brings nothing to the table other than not needing buffs but in the process of not needing buffs it cannot give buffs. My party is centered around protecting everyone, not just the wizzies. Just because i happen to protect the wizzies doesn't mean that i protect the entire party. Your argument has been you will do cleric absolute dmg, and i stated how i would prevent that, you then pervert that and say my party is only about protecting wizzies. All i have been doing is telling you how i would protect wizzies, but that isn't all my party is capable of. The problem is you don't see what else they're capable and only see: weak wizzies, chinese nuker pl0x. GG!
-_- you don't understand the semantics of the European party, you only know the context of a few builds, and hell, you don't even know them well. When you understand why the European Party is Far superior to the mixed party then you can argue with me. T_T stupidity must be bliss. If you don't know what disease does, then i feel sry for you man.
I'm fairly sure that isn't how disease works. Holy spell doesn't just completely block most 8level statuses, it also reduces the probability for 9level, and disease doesn't seem to work how you think it does (i.e. 9level disease makes 8level statues equal to 9level), it just increases the probability for 8level to near 100%, so they still get blocked. I'm not certain though so if anyone wants to prove me wrong that would make my day. I hate holy spell.
I'm fairly sure that isn't how disease works. Holy spell doesn't just completely block most 8level statuses, it also reduces the probability for 9level, and disease doesn't seem to work how you think it does (i.e. 9level disease makes 8level statues equal to 9level), it just increases the probability for 8level to near 100%, so they still get blocked. I'm not certain though so if anyone wants to prove me wrong that would make my day. I hate holy spell.
Read the link at the bottom, Disease increases the chance of a bad status getting through Holy Spell, but it can be removed by a Cleric, problem is the warlock would use disease primarily on the Cleric(s) and Warrior(s) so that they/it can be killed, leaving mixed parties open to "Invasion".
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Maddening
Last edited by Barotix on Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
They still get blocked because some people still have immunities on top of just Holy Spell.(Fire Shield, Charity, Etc.)
I always wanted to try 8 Clerics all with Offering and Absolute Spells...
Thats scary stuff man. a Team of Clerics or Wizards: dangerous >.<. you will nvr kill the Clerics T_T, but unless they get close enough or are allowed to cast offering they won't kill you either.
Legend one has turned SRO into dungeons and dragons >.> blood your new party is hard to counter >.<: like I mean it can kill, but can't be stopped easily, any party that encounters yours will have a real hard time taking it down. You know whats deadlier? 8/8 Paladins (2h/Clerics) T_T scary.
Nuclear, I'll just kill your cleric >.> with a magical atk because of Earth fence only prevents physical atks. EDIT: @Nuclear, it seems i have been bested. Silly me i forgot about subs
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Last edited by Barotix on Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Body and mind is weakened due to curse, and the chance of getting a bad status increases under this state. Impossible to be cured using medicines, and the only way to be cured is through the help of others.
It says the chance of getting a status increases, not the actual level of the status, and it doesn't say anything about getting through holy spell. So lets say the chance goes up to 100% when you're diseased, that would still get blocked by holy spell. Believe me I wish it did go through holy spell but I'm just saying what I've seen, although that isn't to say that a warlock is worthless in a party. Party reflect is nice to have and Dull and bleed from DoTs go through holy spell, as does wheel bind which also happens to be one of the best debuffs against chinese, and with two stuns you can keep a cleric stunned for 10 seconds.
The reason europeans have str and weaknesses is to compliment each other.
I use to believe that when the pot delay was 30 secs. Now that its 15 secs, Europeans don't necessarily need to compliment each other. They're all able to hold their own alone.
Anyway, for PvP, I'll take a mix party over a European party any day.
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@Barotix, I dunno if this has been established yet or not, but I'm replying to that one big post on page 2.
Nobody knows what they're talking about when they're talking about european pvp. Are you saying that your party is gonna magically have all of their buffs up while the chinese come? No. They'll have some up, but bless won't be up and neither will skins shields and all that crap.
The way it would REALLY work is the bows phantom in and strongbow the cleric so he's dead immediately, assuming the europeans are good, the tank will have started to attack along with the wizards, the cleric is dead though, so the rest of the party will phantom in and nukers will lightning nuke and glaivers will stun and all that crap. The europeans will probably take some down, but they'll ultimately be the losers, because they won't have any buffs up, and if they DO cast some buffs, such as shields and crap, well then all of the chinese will target the buffer and kill HIM so his buffs are cancelled off the other players. If a wizard with cleric sub changes to cleric, then the chinese will try and kill the cleric when he's doing his reverse oblation. If the cleric does bless first, then the chinese will run away and come back when bless is out.
Ultimately, if all the players know what they're doing, a 8/8 party of chinese can beat the 8/8 european party. The only reason you all think europeans would win is because for some reason, you're all convinced you'll get to buff up first, and then attack first. Well, maybe you'll be able to start buffing, but by the time that happens, likely one or two of your people will be dead.
Best party though is a mix of chinese and european characters. Bows, clerics, a wizard, and glaivers.
Full rogue or bow party might be the best too.
@Barotix again.
You realize that all those moves are only temporary and take a long time to cast, right? While your wizard does kb on one of the chinese, the rest of the chinese kill the wizard.
European can win if they can get bless up, but the rest of the moves are shit, they just take up time to cast and are pointless. If you have one cleric do bless, before they get killed by strongbow, then the rest of the wizards should just NUKE!!! Why use some stupid weak KB move or fear or some other shit, that just eats up the bless time. Damage is important when your defence only lasts a few seconds.
Chinese and european are pretty much evenly matched, but that's by a technical standpoint... Chinese are more likely to win because they're not going to be stupid and let the europeans put up all their defences.
@Barotix yet again. Yeah, 2h clerics are really really hard to kill, this is the ONE party that can actually make use of all the defence buffs. Have one put up bless, and since 2h have plenty of hp they can just all skin up and shield eachother and stuff, and they don't have to worry about bless running out, because as soon as it does run out, they can cast another one. but that's only if they know the enemy is coming. Full team of rogues can potentially take them out, but then again, 2h has high physical defence and high hp. So maybe they won't all get 1 hitted and they can cast bless and kill the rogues. But the rogues might do combos and kill the warriors before bless can get up... Yeah... Lots of complications...
lol. so reading all this non-lion shout related stuff...
i just never considered my lion shout much of a damage attack.. usually just use it for grinding..
but I see where some of the suggestions are going regarding the mana shield and stuff, and i may try it.
even as a hybrid int spear, I prefer using spear skills more just for the fact most of the str builds i PvP are wearing garms, and ints have pretty decent mag def anyway. But I will definitely try out lion shouts in a row and see how well it works.
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I may have misread but how do chinese aoe faster?......Wizard nukes half a second faster then a chinese nuke, I've easily out casted chinese who start their nuke before I do. Arguments are wasted and off topic.
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 1011 Location: I can't play.
They will cast their nukes more often whereas you get 2 good AoE and then Meteor which is bootleg whereas Chinese Nukers can constantly cast Lightning Nukes and throw in a Fire Nuke every once in a while.
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 1921 Location: http://goo.gl/Lfwa
hm, just to point this out... but it only takes 1 cleric/cleric sub to group ress in a group pvp...
someone above said to kill cleric and rest of party will go down... :S even without heals, warriors can just buff themselves and each other long enough to do ressing
@Barotix, I dunno if this has been established yet or not, but I'm replying to that one big post on page 2.
Nobody knows what they're talking about when they're talking about european pvp. Are you saying that your party is gonna magically have all of their buffs up while the chinese come? No. They'll have some up, but bless won't be up and neither will skins shields and all that crap.
The way it would REALLY work is the bows phantom in and strongbow the cleric so he's dead immediately, assuming the europeans are good, the tank will have started to attack along with the wizards, the cleric is dead though, so the rest of the party will phantom in and nukers will lightning nuke and glaivers will stun and all that crap. The europeans will probably take some down, but they'll ultimately be the losers, because they won't have any buffs up, and if they DO cast some buffs, such as shields and crap, well then all of the chinese will target the buffer and kill HIM so his buffs are cancelled off the other players. If a wizard with cleric sub changes to cleric, then the chinese will try and kill the cleric when he's doing his reverse oblation. If the cleric does bless first, then the chinese will run away and come back when bless is out.
Ultimately, if all the players know what they're doing, a 8/8 party of chinese can beat the 8/8 european party. The only reason you all think europeans would win is because for some reason, you're all convinced you'll get to buff up first, and then attack first. Well, maybe you'll be able to start buffing, but by the time that happens, likely one or two of your people will be dead.
Best party though is a mix of chinese and european characters. Bows, clerics, a wizard, and glaivers.
Full rogue or bow party might be the best too.
@Barotix again.
You realize that all those moves are only temporary and take a long time to cast, right? While your wizard does kb on one of the chinese, the rest of the chinese kill the wizard.
European can win if they can get bless up, but the rest of the moves are shit, they just take up time to cast and are pointless. If you have one cleric do bless, before they get killed by strongbow, then the rest of the wizards should just NUKE!!! Why use some stupid weak KB move or fear or some other shit, that just eats up the bless time. Damage is important when your defence only lasts a few seconds.
Chinese and european are pretty much evenly matched, but that's by a technical standpoint... Chinese are more likely to win because they're not going to be stupid and let the europeans put up all their defences.
@Barotix yet again. Yeah, 2h clerics are really really hard to kill, this is the ONE party that can actually make use of all the defence buffs. Have one put up bless, and since 2h have plenty of hp they can just all skin up and shield eachother and stuff, and they don't have to worry about bless running out, because as soon as it does run out, they can cast another one. but that's only if they know the enemy is coming. Full team of rogues can potentially take them out, but then again, 2h has high physical defence and high hp. So maybe they won't all get 1 hitted and they can cast bless and kill the rogues. But the rogues might do combos and kill the warriors before bless can get up... Yeah... Lots of complications...
LOL Raini you have no idea what you're talking about. Quota and Fence + Tambour with earth Fence, those are just basic buffs i didn't even mention screens or bless. nearly 8x% absorption magical and physical you won't kill the cleric -_- (at this cap). Again Raini you have no idea what you're talking about XD. LOL in a GW or FW or any WAR the party of Europeans will always have their basic buffs up. They will have quotas fences blesses tambours curses scream mask healing division cycle and orbit, etc. The Screens and Bless Spell are for emergencies the other buffs are basics. A chinese party with 1 Warrior 1 Cleric and 2 Bards, is formmidable, but if they come face to face with the Overpowered Horror that is the European Party then they're farked. Raini come to Venus, you have alot to learn about how Europeans work.
Mixed party brings nothing to the table other than a stand alone defence that doesn't require any buffs but at the same bring no buffs along with them. I want the person who will watch my back because thats the way they were designed. I don't want someone who will get ass raped once the Cleric and Warrior are dead. I'm not forgetting subs, but i didn't realize that a burgeoning amount of Chinese skilled Force. Kill the warrior in a mixed party and you leave everyone naked, prevent the Cleric from ressing and start interfering with the bards (just in case they have cleric sub) The chinese most likely won't have a high lvl res. Once their 2 screens of bless run down, The Cleric (who I'm assuming has wizard sub will use Earth Fence for 42% physical absorption) Thats where one wizard nukes comes in and kills the cleric (assuming the bards are in range) and the bards. Then the Chinese without any external buffs are easy picking. The same strategy applies to killing a european party.
Kill the warrior(s) Prevent any others from ressing (tough part, because when its pure European you can count on several having cleric sub) Kill the bards (assuming the have bards and assuming the rogues don't prevent that while protected by 2 layers of bless Tambours Dances and Earth Fence) Kill The Wizards (assuming that a warlock hasn't put scream mask on (it will happen)) Now for that annoying warlock who can last a long ass time and might have a cleric sub, one group res and its over.
^Tell me what would a chinese bring to such perfect efficiency outside of PvE?
Damn just killing the warriors will be extremely difficult. I want to see your responses.
@-.-, that would be blood, who like raini, has no idea what he was typing.
Mixed party brings nothing to the table other than a stand alone defence that doesn't require any buffs..
Thats the point. They're stand alone. You don't have t worry about the party following apart because XXX got killed.
Barotix wrote:
...but at the same bring no buffs along with them.
Chinese have always been effective killing machines in a party before Europeans even came.
Barotix wrote:
I want the person who will watch my back because thats the way they were designed.
Yea, thats the way they were designed. With a 15 sec pot delay and in the right hands, a European character is very well capable of holding their own.
Barotix wrote:
I don't want someone who will get ass raped once the Cleric and Warrior are dead.
You mean like most European only parties?
Barotix wrote:
I'm not forgetting subs, but i didn't realize that a burgeoning amount of Chinese skilled Force.
Subs of course.
Barotix wrote:
Kill the warrior in a mixed party and you leave everyone naked, prevent the Cleric from ressing and start interfering with the bards (just in case they have cleric sub)
And how do you go about killing the warrior? Thats pretty vague. And like I said before, thats the point of a mix party. If someone dies, the party can still go on strong without them. Far from being "naked."
Barotix wrote:
The chinese most likely won't have a high lvl res. Once their 2 screens of bless run down, The Cleric (who I'm assuming has wizard sub will use Earth Fence for 42% physical absorption) Thats where one wizard nukes comes in and kills the cleric (assuming the bards are in range) and the bards.
With bard dances and cleric buffs, a Wizard isn't one shotting anyone. You have one chance to kill and once you fail, all it takes is a phantom and a ghost spear and its over for the wizard. Even so, if the party knows the enemies are coming, Bless Spell, skins, will be ready to be casted. Also, there will be Scream Mask on the Cleric so there is a 35% chance the Wizard is stunned left defenseless. What about if Advance Reflect is casted? There's a chance that the damage you done to the Cleric gets reflected back at you, killing you. How are you so sure that you will get a nuke off? With fast reflexes I'm not so sure you will. A warlock can stun or sleep you. Sprint Assault has a chance of stun or knocking you back, there could be a trap that you run over and die before you even make it to the party. A rogue has Scorn. Its not that simple.
Barotix wrote:
Then the Chinese without any external buffs are easy picking. The same strategy applies to killing a european party.
Certainly it applies to a European party but not a Chinese party... But then again, you would have to get them in that unlikely scenario by some how getting passed everything I listed above....
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i use it all the time... i'm lvl 51 and i have the 2nd book of it. high lvl.... but i'm not gonna up it for a while cuz i'm saving for the lvl 50 nukes.
Mixed party brings nothing to the table other than a stand alone defence that doesn't require any buffs..
Thats the point. They're stand alone. You don't have t worry about the party following apart because XXX got killed.
Barotix wrote:
...but at the same bring no buffs along with them.
Chinese have always been effective killing machines in a party before Europeans even came.
Barotix wrote:
I want the person who will watch my back because thats the way they were designed.
Yea, thats the way they were designed. With a 15 sec pot delay and in the right hands, a European character is very well capable of holding their own.
Barotix wrote:
I don't want someone who will get ass raped once the Cleric and Warrior are dead.
You mean like most European only parties?
In a European only party it would be so hard to kill the Cleric let alone the warrior that their deaths are implausible so long as they are together. Cleric Warrior and vice-versa.
Barotix wrote:
I'm not forgetting subs, but i didn't realize that a burgeoning amount of Chinese skilled Force.
Subs of course.
Barotix wrote:
Kill the warrior in a mixed party and you leave everyone naked, prevent the Cleric from ressing and start interfering with the bards (just in case they have cleric sub)
And how do you go about killing the warrior? Thats pretty vague. And like I said before, thats the point of a mix party. If someone dies, the party can still go on strong without them. Far from being "naked."
You can't kill the warrior period, mixed or not, and in the unlikely occurrence one warrior dies you will still have another doing its job, pop one oblation and he is back in the game. Thankfully you realize this . In the chance that to many people die because of subs (cleric) on group res and the entire party is back in action. Once a European party starts there is no stopping it, but you can slow it down. Chinese do as Chinese will, and will always be awesome, but Their not Group Mentality Material. They're more of "gang this class because its dangerous Mentality" XD
Barotix wrote:
The Chinese most likely won't have a high lvl res. Once their 2 screens of bless run down, The Cleric (who I'm assuming has wizard sub will use Earth Fence for 42% physical absorption) Thats where one wizard nukes comes in and kills the cleric (assuming the bards are in range) and the bards.
With bard dances and cleric buffs, a Wizard isn't one shotting anyone. You have one chance to kill and once you fail, all it takes is a phantom and a ghost spear and its over for the wizard. Even so, if the party knows the enemies are coming, Bless Spell, skins, will be ready to be casted. Also, there will be Scream Mask on the Cleric so there is a 35% chance the Wizard is stunned left defenseless. What about if Advance Reflect is casted? There's a chance that the damage you done to the Cleric gets reflected back at you, killing you. How are you so sure that you will get a nuke off? With fast reflexes I'm not so sure you will. A warlock can stun or sleep you. Sprint Assault has a chance of stun or knocking you back, there could be a trap that you run over and die before you even make it to the party. A rogue has Scorn. Its not that simple.
The absorptions apply to the European Party as well and are better applied in a European party. The really is any argument here, why are you so adamant? I proved your point when i typed: "Chinese stand alone well" and agreed that they are great killing machines(with style ) Also with only bards and cleric buffs that won't be on nonstop (you know what buff) i think i won't have trouble one shotting your group. I said it over and over only a European Party can defeat a European Party (it will be hard) but its the fact, and here you are helping me get my point across, thx mate
Barotix wrote:
Then the Chinese without any external buffs are easy picking. The same strategy applies to killing a European party.
Certainly it applies to a European party but not a Chinese party... But then again, you would have to get them in that unlikely scenario by some how getting passed everything I listed above....
Everything you listed, i similarly listed on page 3 and 4, read the thread. You will notice that you repeated everything i typed except you tried to apply it to a Mixed party, yet did not adequately show why the Chinese counterpart is better than its European equivalent, as a matter of fact (as i will mention later) you helped me and shot your foot -_-
Everything you listed above applies to the European party and seems heavily based towards European play. The only thing you said pertaining to Chinese was that they are effective killing machines and can stand alone, i understand the need of repetition to beat a stone, but when you're repeating what has been said time and time again the argument gets dull. You also argued completely in my favor.
And after noticing a slight miscalculation in the wizard nuke VS spear nuke, i came to the conclusion that the only advantages a wizard has against the Chinese is better weapons and party friendly buffs.
A Chinese naked no weapon nuke at lvl 120 with fire imbue and light nuke should do on average 90k with the max being 111k. while the wizard is far behind and only matches it because of its staff, nonetheless looking at the possibilities the choice is obvious: who brings more to the table, and will benefit the party as a whole rather than singular Units: E.G., Communism.
As i said, repetition is FTW, and you only bolstered my argument that the pure European party is so unpredictable and dangerous that no mixed party will be superior. Way to shoot yourself in the foot man -_-.
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Last edited by Barotix on Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 1011 Location: I can't play.
He talks about it from the stand point of how his Warlock would function in a mix party. There is a lot more supporting mix than Euro parties, if there is anything.
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i'm lvl 51 and i have the 2nd book of it. high lvl.... but i'm not gonna up it for a while cuz i'm saving for the lvl 50 nukes.
Warrior and vice-versa.
) Also with only bards and cleric buffs that won't be on nonstop (you know what buff) i think i won't have trouble one shotting your group. I said it over and over only a European Party can defeat a European Party (it will be hard) but its the fact, and here you are helping me get my point across, thx mate