Silkroad Online Forums

tell that to your union then, thats not how they are doing it, its one warrior luring, at least they are starting to not just transfer lures to main tank and go lure more (thats dangerous and hard on the cleric when the main tank is barely able to survive in max heals and the lurer needs a cycle too far out for me be able to afford leaving the main tank, wouldn't be dangerous is the tanks were closer the mob level though or had good gear, but eh) i'm starting to see a change in ovk at least to where they'll grab mobs and wait for them to mostly die (kinda slower exp though, but at least no deaths). Actaully its more fair for the tanks to stick around anyways alot of times luring like the trasnfer or alternating lures, they miss alot of xp because they go out of range when stuff dies, maybe better for the ints but its less efficient to the tanks.

i though about it and it dosent matter what party you get, the best party is a party with Lemon in it.

the kid w/ white hair? Toushiro

Sorry guys, but uhm.. Apparently my union isn't really as active as it was when half the server wasn't 90 and actually wanted to party grind. I cannot put a party together when no one wants to grind, but I'm not lying about having (Can replace a wiz with warlock or w/e, but 5wizards is.. amazing)5 wizards in a party, 2 warriors, and a cleric. Somehow the party didn't run out of mana(Don't ask me I'm just the warrior that speeds the party and randomly casted mana orbit along with giving quota fences to 4 people. Running back and forth.. just trying to get mobs for the party)

I'll try to get that video if the majority of the party being wizard, but yeah.. If no one wants to grind its impossible to get. Getting warriors and clerics on Troy = easy. Getting the wizards = quite hard. Majority of euros on Troy are 2h/cleric.

about transferring lure...that dont work quite well =P...but the best thing to do before chasers or gens is get a good lurer and the other one tanks and assist the lure...sooo the 1st warrior bring all the lures..and the 2nd one aggro the mobs attacking the cleric and ints..so both warriors hold the lure, the thing is that not every1 knows how to hold the aggro

u don't need a bard for mp...I was grinding with my wiz and another friend with a wiz as well...both wiz life turn over on and a warrior with with pain quota and fences on both wiz...this was at rocky's dmg. from pt rocky's is about 200-500..i don't think a wiz have worry about dying..rocky's drop in secs..just with 2 wiz so i bet with four it would be even easier...its true that MP is drain very fast..but not to the point where u can't atk..its a matter of alternating nukes with less mp consumption such as frozen spear and not use charged squall 6434 MP =.=...I can only imagine what four wiz, all with fences/pain quota and life turn over on would do and a full time cleric healing...I think Toshiharu 5 wiz pt would work...though I haven't been on one...warriors purpose is to keep the fences/pain quota and run around while wiz pwnd...I don't recommend using howling shout though..that would get the warrior kill..at least on rocky's cuz they lack mag def.

Obviously you have no clue of a really party play. Why care about mana use and use low mana nukes which are weaker if you can use your strongest nukes one after another?

Anyway, just from the post you made I can say 1 thing about you. You're the not so uncommon wizard type that think "i can pwn anything or anyonw bwahahha nobody can stop me kekeke". It just sounded like that. Anyone reading your post can confirm my words.

The best is the second bc warlocks are zerk machines! and there curses rock so yeah!!

Not even if they save you gold for pots?

Obviously you have no clue of a really party play. Why care about mana use and use low mana nukes which are weaker if you can use your strongest nukes one after another?

Anyway, just from the post you made I can say 1 thing about you. You're the not so uncommon wizard type that think "i can pwn anything or anyonw bwahahha nobody can stop me kekeke". It just sounded like that. Anyone reading your post can confirm my words.[/quote]

well as long as
a)I don't die with life turnover on
b)rape every pt mob within 5 sec
C)don't stand still waiting for MP to nuke
d)the above 3 happen..i don't give a f**ck about MP
pt rockys "tickle" me with there 200-500 dmg...and i'm talking about 88+ wiz not some lvl 80-85 grinding rockys

this is my wiz no premium http://www.rev6.com/player.asp?id=1653073
1337 set right xD...only has blues on it...so rocky's dmg would be constant 200 dmg with fences/pain quota or what? if i had a +4/5 set.
I don't want to spent gold on my 2 euros...think of this way...i made 2 euros warrior/cleric wiz/bard both 88 cuz i was bored lol. and you are right I don't know that much about euros..but I do know this that just me and another wiz with life turn over/fences/pain quota rape the area of roc mt....rocky's respawn rate is sh**t compare to others...u will find urself standing in one spot for 15-20 secs at times waiting for a rocky to appear....my point I would rather have another attacker then a bard that gives me MP when i don't really need it. for other areas like wing tribes it would be dangerous to like 5 wiz with life turn over on and respawn is much higher so wiz probably won't stop attacking for a sec and there MP may drain...so a bard to provide MP may help but doubt that is a must have.

have a nice day.

U do know why we dont pt at rockies right? Because the spawn rate sux. U're talking about ur mediocre pt at rocky's while we're talking about pt at chasers where the spawn rate is the best for 8x-90 to grind on. And u said u're using frozen spear. While we are using lightning chain. 4 continuous AOE. (meteor,chain lightning, earth quake and blizzard) More DPS, more mobs getting hit. Not to forget salamander blow on pt champs / giants / ptg. Yes, u will be crying for mp if you're owesome like us. We dont hold anything back. But i guess u wouldnt know since u never get the chance to be in it. Also, having 2 bards meaning less ppl to get fence/quota. And with both tambours up, dance of wizardry and speed, u'll get the drift.

At lv100 you will need some bards, I dont see how lv100 wizards can pull off all those skills with their pot delay..

For those saying you dont need a bard in an 8/8 euro party, go back to getting AFK plvled!

Clearly you dont know what you are talking about...

That ksro video uses

1 warrior (who doesn't take any damage)
1 cleric (who takes all the damage)
3 wiz
2 bards
1 bow


We don't use warrior mains anymore. The warriors we have in our party switch to either cleric or rogue (lvl 10). In PvE, warrior specific skills are useless because:

constant bless > warrior buffs

Constant bless gives 60% absorption. Constant double bless gives 90% absorption. So we don't miss warrior buffs.

heal aggro > warrior aggro

Heal aggro doesn't have an number limit whereas warrior taunt does. Notice in the vid how the bow runs past and the 10 mobs switch to attacking the cleric. A warrior would not be able to take aggro from those 10 mobs at once, he would need multiple taunts to achieve the same thing. The warrior in that video is only used to get mobs off ints when needed. Notice that when he does that, the other mobs don't follow. They use the cleric as a tank which is a lot more efficient imo.

rogue lure > warrior lure

Rogue lure range is twice that of a warrior and does low aggro so the mob aggro can easily be transferred to the cleric. When a warrior lures, it's hard for him to go back out and lure more until the mobs are dead. A rogue can lure 100% of the time.

As for the first videos, I'm not that impressed. A good party should have 10+ mobs ALL the time so that there isn't a single second of waiting - the wizards should be able to spam aoe skills for hours non-stop (not even stop for a second). And those mobs need to be in one place so that EVERY single aoe hits the maximum number of mobs.

i like, +1

hybrid cleric would work wonders in there, plus the warrior can use screen and his buffs on the cleric so the cleric can tank (must add light armor) I used to act like a 2nd tank on my cleric (am dlvling cleric skills atm) use rd plus heals i can keep agro of other ints that can't take it, and i just use a justice cross to help draw more agro off wizzards if some gets thru. Thats actually not a bad party set up. Infact that may be smarter then the normal, cause every one normally acts like cleric agro is a bad thing and try to fight it, your method works with healing agro (which may even be half way intentional by jm to work that way, because chinese heals do not agro this could be a good explanation as to why one does and the other doesn't; then again jm could have just wanted it to be harder)

also proximity mutiples agro i've noticed (maybe its just me), even if a warrior can produce that much agro to hold all the mobs, but that doesn't mean he is allowed to not help tank, cause clerics may be tough but they aren't immortal. the way to make work what you suggest it he warrior half tanks, but its ok if he breaks off for a second, because the mobs will just go to the cleric real fast (ever wonder why certain warriors work better together then others even if both are really good, its one tank should be dedicated to break away from the pack to save ints if something gets by, because if both try to all the time, they'll start to loose agro, because the mobs are getting closer to the ints and the agro output from the warrior stopped).

edit rogue still better to use over bow lure, if they get the fence they can take a hella of a lot of abuse, which will be half way minamal anyways cause they aren't trying to stand and tank

I never really post here. But since this is going about partys and we have them alot at venus I will try to contribute something to it.

Anyway, I see some general mistakes about warriors.

1 Bless cycle definitely isnt better then fences/quota. Even when 1 bless is 60% less dmg fences alone are like 64% + quota 64%. And its easier to maintain warrior buffs plus alot wizards dont have cleric sub at all. And yes u will need fence + quota at pt mobs 11 lvs higher. And fences+quota+bless owns double bless.

2Heal aggro owns warrior aggro? Warriors can aggro mobs for alot more points. Further more, u say me as a warrior cant take the aggro of 10 mobs? Hmm U know te definition of protect? And dont say 'that a lurer cant lure as much with protect ( thats true)' but me as a tank I cast protect at the lurer when he arrives. Resulting in me getting all aggro I dont even have to taunt for the aggro. Further more a cleric 11 lvs lower with only quota or no tank buffs at all fails at tanking. Speaking from expierence with an lv 88 cleric.

Rogue lure > warrior lure. It depends how u look at it. But ur arguments are really really weak.
The transferring aggro, to be honest its really easy to transfer aggro with an tank. Just cancel vital and dont use protect at the wizzys / cleirc. And let the main tank protect the lurer. This way the lurer lures 100% of the time and all mobs are in one place at a tank with eveyrone buffed. This was our old system with 1 main tank + 1 luring tank.

Anyway I agree this was a problem with our pts. In the past. But MAYBE if u even did watch the vids u saw the tanks working like this. 1 Tank lures a big lure, ( rogues cant do it this big cause they dont have the same defence: skins+screens+vital.With a rogue u miss 3 screens). well the luring tank arrives he taunted his whole lure he keeps aggro easy. Then the other warrior goes luring. He arrives , then the other tanks lure is killed and the first tank goes luring again.

This last comment clearly proves that u have no real experience in pts like this at chasers. Do u even have the slightest idea how fast wizards kill chasers at 85+ ( I think they hit 40-50k without debuffs)? I will give u an example. This is comming from a lv 85 tank. When I am in a pt similar to Narcs one or guardia's one. I go up for a lure. K I find lots of mobs i bring them back ( i lure everything since my def is superb compared to a rogue, takes more time though). Guess what my lure is killed in what 15-20secs ( slight exaggeration). Anyway the other tank arrives with his lure as my last mobs died and I go for a new lure. But dammn in the whole area theres no single mob to taunt I gotta wait for them to respawn.

Even with a rogue luring this will always happend at chasers. Therefore with a rogue luring u wont have 5+ mobs in one spot. Since even ur almighty rogue lurer cant lure mobs that didnt spawn yet can he?

Believe me when we never tried something like u suggest. However I aint claiming that rogues lure slower then tanks. Im just saying 2 tanks can make up for the lack by team work.

AND foudre ur right that clerics act liek second tanks. U know why they can? cause they got 50% + 50% dmg reduction from warriors. Without it a pure int or hybrid cant tank as much. ANd uh 2 warriors tanking the same group of mobs is totally wrong to begin with. ANd when a mob escapes just dont nuke it and the warrior can taunt it back easily , o and move around a bit and u got fear for these kinds of situations. ( btw when a warrior already taunted the mobs while luring the chance a wiz gets the aggro is slim), its alot higher when the aggro gets transferred from a rogue to tank/cleirc.

Anyway the only variation I see that could work like a benefit to this pt. IS what foudre already mentioned. A tanking cleric. PureStr clerics can be used for this. And 2 tanks just dump all mobs at the cleric. This however will be hard at mobs 11 lvs higher cause more powerful healing will be required. Another option is to take a wiz in lt + hrd= much healing. Combine that with a switching lock/cleric that way u have like 4 dmg dealers. But this really is tricky.

i know we cleric relie on that those buffs, but with it i can hold the agro really well, with a bless cycle plus the warrior buffing the cleric and a rogue, that set up would work fairly well, if you got people who are too dense to keep a bless cycle going * cough nanssy, again it comes down to have good players in the party, that would keep all the agro where it belongs, non stop mobs way better then a warrior can hope to bring in with out missing tons of xp (what good is lureing alot if the person luring goes out of xp range of things dying, and its not fair to expect them to do so) the rogue wont' leave range, and in addition to the healing agro plus warrior agro at that spot the rogue can use poison trap and poison feild (poison is alot of agro), no mob will go un poisoned, un agroed, or leave that spot and a constant high volume flow, and a ptg the rogue can lax on lureing switch to daggers and plus a warlock shred the hell out of it at a rate to be marvaled

i suggest using that method

1 warrior
1 rogue
1 cleric
1 warlock
2 bards
2 wizzards with at least the warlock being sub cleric and 2 wiz sub clerics or the bard that is dancing, and even the rogue, because he shouldn't be using extreme while luring

tambour 30% fence 50% qouta 50, bless 60, non stop healing plus mp that cleric isn't going to be hurting too much

btw pure int cleric can tank stuff 14 lvls higher with the warrior buffs i did it at gens, only thing is the stun made it hard and too dangerous to be worth it, works wonders at other mobs like gaurds though

@dutchleader. I've been partying on euros since it came out so don't be rude and tell me that I don't have experience. I am fully aware of what a warrior can do. Keep the discussion sensible and no flaming.

In terms of our party makeup, we do revert back to using warriors if the party does not have the right mix of skills. However our ideal party is:

1 cleric (who is a warrior/cleric so he is a str cleric)
1 rogue (who is a warrior/cleric with lvl 10 rogue for fast shot)
2 bard/clerics (one of which is a cleric main)
3 wiz/clerics
1 warlock/cleric

Most of us are capped and currently sp farming. This party makeup is overall better at gaining experience because it maximises damage output and gives us survivability too. I don't know how you can say quota/fence is better than bless. You can't apply it to all the members of the party which is why we prefer to use constant bless or double bless. So the fact that a particular buff is is better on an target is irrelevant. Overall, it allows us to concentrate more on the killing and less on looking out for each other. In that mix, you can also add in bard tambours, wiz fence and lock mask.

Our cleric in this setup has never died and has never been close to dieing so the issue of not having fence/quotas on him isn't an issue for us.

One of the main reasons we use rogue luring is that we need to lure 100% of the time to keep the number of mobs coming. Using the more traditional 2 warrior lure is less efficient no matter how well managed it is. We do use 2 warrior lures when we need to based on party makeup so we are well aware of how it works.

Yeah sure but, lv 80 wizzys with a 9 gap and a lv 72 cleric wont stay alive. Most players capped? well then the average might even be above chasers. In a settup with 2 warriors a lv 72 kept the whole pt alive. All under 85. Most gapping.

And fence/quota owns bless cause it helps the members of the pt with a weak defence. With 2 warriors u can buff 3 wizzys+1 cleric, thers no need to buff the ohters. O and just causes we have fence+quota doesnt mean we never use bless.

U keep saying a rogue lures far more then 2 warriors. But even a rogue cant lure mobs that didnt even respawn. Especially with like 4+ dmg dealers, I suppose ur wizzards use LT?. Either ur rogue is an hacker or ur warriors just have less skill.

Further more no warrior, how do u even group the mobs? At the cleric? That will most surely work at a lv 90 cleric, but at a 76 cleric with only bless as defence?

Seems to me ur settup doesnt work at mobs 11 lvs higher. But sure it might work at mobs 5 lvs lower. I wouldnt even farm at mobs 5 lvs lower. I guess we are measuring with different terms cause I like to grind at mobs 11-9 lvs hihger when possible. Our partys at chasers arent many times 85+.

Anyway make a vid of ur chaser party, maybe it can convince us all at venus.

Hmm foudre I wouldnt like to be a lv 60 wiz in ur pt at guards. Last week I helped out a bit at guards and watched them. Sometimes they all died with even 2 warriors. Its natural a warrior cant keep all aggro or sometimes mobs spawn at the to ints( which with fences etc isnt even a problem).Plus there arent many real safe spots at guards+. And I guess u are speaking bout a guard party with nannsy? Cause lv 72 is ridiculous high for guards. With 2 warriors wizzys could go gens at lv 64-66. And if ur speaking about gens with lv 72 wizzys I cant imagine that warriors fail at supplying the wizzys with 5 mobs or more.

U say good warriors keep 100% aggro? I say 2 decent warriors lure more then enough for lv 72 wizzys and keep their aggro of their own lures fairly decent. Anyway I will come to take a look at ur party foudre , cause im curious xD.

Both parties are a nice setup, but like a couple others have said, you NEED a rogue in party for lures. Replace the warlock for a rogue, and go with the second party setup. If you have ever partied with a rogue who knows what they are doing then you know what I mean. They can pull a hell of a larger lure than tanks can.

Some ppl still live in the past.

astra u homo lol...what phy and mag balance do u have for ur build?

@astra I know locks can lure quite well, and their debuffs are awesome, but a rogue can lure more mobs than a lock which equals faster leveling.

Nubcake

I miss 11 INT from blues, and 8 STR.

@ deathtoall
But a rogue won't give them zerks.

XD lolzors replace a lock for a rogue. Astra u better dlv warlock for rogue xD.

Anyway to be serious. I am curious how fast u get zerk with 2 locks. Since from what I can remember u get almost all the time zerk. Since zerk is 100% more dmg and locks have way more defence then LT wizzys,+ some extra dmg from dots ( compared to bard) and with 2 warlock Ithink u can also cast more debufs? Then I would like to see a bard getting replaced with a second lock.

1Cleric/ pureint or pure str doesnt really matter I prefer pure int
2 warriors
2 wizards
2 warlocks
1 bard

So, take guard pts or gen pts for exemple. 2 bards give like 30% more dmg with dance.But when u get zerk all the time its 100% more dmg. Further more u dont need 2 bards to keep the mana up. I saw donkyle ( purestr bard) keep the mana of the whole pt up. And u will be fine with only guard tambour. The 2nd lock also adds more dmg then a bard+the lock also can lure. The lock luring is proved by astra and at my lv 38 lock/cleric I also lure decent cause I got insttant range skills + I can heal myself when necissary.

Split fence and quota between the 2 locks. Since they got twice the hp a wiz+ shield ( hopefully br 16+). U could also take a purestr cleric and give the cleric buffs to the 2 warlocks.

Bwah it might be an stupid idea but I am a lock fan they bring so much utility to a pt. ANd I think the new zerk at KSRO makes this even more interesting. The looks of a full pt in zerk is also awesome .

With a pure str cleric it might be intersting to use this

1 cleric
3 wiz
1 warlock
2 warriors
1 bards

Since the cleric doesnt need buffs U can have 3 wizzys in LT + an zerk machine XD. Altough I dont know whats better at chasers 40% more dmg from eachwiz or an extra wiz. Never been good at math. But say each wiz hits 40k, thats like what 56k with dance? so thats from 2 wizards = 112k.

And 3 wizzys add 40k each nuke makes it 120k dmg. I know its stupid logic and since wizzys are rare at chasers it wont happen much but I can see it working fine to, not saying its an real improvement. Since battle bards also add dmg.

O and today I was actually with my lock at sungs without any tank. And a rogue luring. We were all like lv 35-38. And with bless the wizzys still get hit for like 300-400 dmg with like 600-800 hp in LC. Meaning an pt champ or pt crit would pretty much kill the wizzys in 1hit. Altough the pt was ofcourse less professional as one with 8 peeps that play the game for 85 lvs. We had alot of alts though. Most wizzys ended up not using LC.

why not both, i remember on superdonut the few rare times i was in a party that had a warlock and i was rogue, omg daggers plus warlock , equal one fcking dead ptg, vs things 12 lvls higher, that dmg out put was wrong.
We had a weird yeti party where only 2 wiz but i was lureing with 2 warriors we lure faster then they could and every one noticed faster xp and no one was dying and every one was below 50.
I learned to rogue from watching vindiction from the perspective of a cleric and as a cleric (she completely changed my opinion of rogues in parties, before i thought they had no real place, till shoe proved me wrong and I could see ya, this is what a rogue should be doing). I liked having the rogue there made me feel safer knowing any mob that broke off from main was about to get jacked by her, not only could she keep the agro when not lureing/ dmg dealing, she was able to kill the mob (switch to daggers plus a a fence and i could keep agro almost as well as the warriors, my dmg output plus poison was enough to keep the mobs on me) (she was better at holding agro cause she liked to use recovery division where as i had sub bard)

Rogues are not useless in parties, the good rogues just dont' get a good enough chance to prove their worth because all the bad rogues out there.

^He's right. =)

+1