Silkroad Online Forums

barotix you can't use shield thrash/crush consecutively, and u cant spam sprint assault + shield crush to stop the enemy forever.

theres a cooldown lag in between, shield crush is a 2part hit and u can get hit after the first hit before the 2nd.

unless its changed, i stopped my warrior back in august last year and ive played it once since then but didnt have thrash on my skills bard, only crush.

The party that prevails basically is determined by how far away the respawn point is at and how much time u are given after each respawn, also how far away the opposing force is at the time of respawn.
-------------------------------------------------
anyways back in topic....

lion shout seems to be good against pure str's in snow shield, if you try to nuke the pure str can pot up enough MP to use a knockback skill. If you use lion shouts, theres nothing he can do and sits there paralyzed.

I've never pvped with XL Mana potions, I don't know how effectively it would be if the pure str had them. I can't test it cuz im Hybrid str not pure str and have 13k MP max which allows me to easily tank a sun sword nuker with only large MP pots.

If i ever face a full int spear sun user though, like Pjajimaster on babel, I think id have to bump up to XL MP pots.

I've seen him 43k Nuke party ongs, he packs serious heat its not even funny.

Right now it is a little weak side compared to a Ghost Spear followup. But once the Piercing Force starts getting stronger this will in turn be strengthened beyond that of what Physical damage followups can do. The farther the cap rises the stronger Chinese Ints become and almost to the point of stronger than Wizards, 140 or 150 cap would probably result in Chinese Nukers being stronger than Wizards due to a 30% or so boost in Magical damage. Luckily enough the cap is leaning towards 120 so it will be still a good difference between the two, but not as big as right now...

im with blood on this one (whole thread)

barot just insulted my rogue

a rogue can and will alwasy be a better puller, i can pull as much as a warrior in 1/10th the time

everytime a wiz lvls his nukes get stronger, and hes got mag attack % increases passives.
In fact u can only open up nukes if u get them, so wiz's will always be stronger.

But when leveling lightning imbue nukers also get dmg increase. 1% from 1 mastery level. And European characters don't have this. Even that mastery description says that it increases too. It don't. So wizard passives are same like Chinese mastery dmg increase.

Even though chinese characters get piercing force, wizards have a naturally stronger weapon and life control. A chinese nuker will never be able to pull out the kind of damage a wizard can do.

+1

If u watch again video SRO PVP, u'll see that wizard deal barely 14-15k dmg to glaivers while a spear nuker deal 11-13k dmg. Wizard cant 1 hit kill glaiver 30k HP anymore. JM balanced it

+1

@Foudre, i didn't insult your rogue, read every one of my Arguments, the rogue is fundamental in taking down Blood's Unbeatable party., besides in PvE rogues lure; just as they Lure in PvP
@Nuklear, i guess you didn't see the vid where the Wizard earth nuked a group of chinese and 1h them. Its only natural to ignore what contradicts your argument, right?
Nuclear, if you're going to make a bold statement at least back it up with operation defenitions, such as: Lvls, Weapon type, (pimped or NPC) how many +s, seals, what skill was used. Unless you put them on an equal playing field you can't make such an outlandish statement, I on the other hand can:

Assume we're atking a mangyang with zerk on. Disregard int added, their both pure int. Disregard defs we're fighting mangyangs.

Today we will be doing Nuke VS Nuke (we will be disregarding the fact that wizards are built for party play, and not 1v1 like a chinese nuker)


Alright time to do the Math, my 1v1 loving comrades.

Still Assuming we're fighting mangyangs without a weapon.



i will do averages because the Chinese imbue would require 2 highs and 2 lows, one in regards to Imbue and the other to Nuke. Remember this is weaponless and white gear.

Meteor Lowest.(12.84*5630) = 72,289.2
(Meteor Highest. (12.84*6434) = 82,612.56
Average: 77,450.88 <~ dmg should on Average be around here.

Light Nuke Lowest.(12.42*4490.5) = 55,772.01
Light Nuke Highest.(12.42*6500.5) = 80,736.21
Average: 68,254.11 <~ dmg should on Average be around here

Now lets add NPC weapons!:
Chinese will be using spear, and Europeans will be using staff, disregard Human AI because if tested on a Human player with the same gear for both wizard and chinese nuker, the wizard will exponentially outdmg thw Chinese Nuker. Konpaku does not have 12 deg weapons and gear, disregard weapons because it is understood that the Wizard's staff has better stats than the Nuker's spear.

Conclusion: Weaponless, the Chinese Nuker has potential to outdmg the European Wizard, but with a weapon the Chinese Nuker pales in comparison to the European wizard.

Therefore, if you want consistent dmg at the end of the dmg spectrum with a low solo survivability go European Wizard, but if you want sporadic dmg with potential to reach the same high of the European wizard with a higher solo survivability go Chinese Spear Nuker or Chinese S/S Nuker.

On the other hand: If you want a unit that will contribute to the party in various ways and expect to party a lot go European Wizard, but if you only want to party when its necessary and don't plan on complimenting your teammates go Chinese Nuker.

Final Conclusion: The Chinese Nuker cannot out dmg the European Wizard because of the base stats of the European Staff. (although it still has 1v1 potential )

Chinese Nuker Damage
Wizard Damage

Lets make a comparison...

The differences between Chinese Nukers and Wizards at 120 are this.

1. Half HP...
2. 3% Difference between Piercing Force and LT
3. Magical Attack boost from LT
4. Staff Damage

The difference between %'s is stupid to say. Chinese Meteor does more damage at 120 plus it gets Imbue which makes either equal or a lot stronger than the Euro Meteor. The only real boosts it gets is its 3% and Magical Attack Boost from LT plus Staff damage. To be stronger Wizards have to sacrifice half their HP and without they won't even come close to Chinese Nukers damage. Is half HP really worth the small boosts it gets?

5]2,011 Magical Increase from LT
6]Built for parties
7]Faster Nukes
8]15 Second pot delay that is negated in a party
9]party party party!

In a party, is half hp worth it? Did you just ask that question? Of course half hp is worth it in a 8 man pt. In 1v1 it depends on when you do it.

Charged wind, LT, Meteor: its over. (at this cap) and the wizzy will just get stronger (at later caps), now to satisfy you i will add Imbue into the calculations .

1v1, and a 15 pot second delay: Europeans Shouldn't 1v1, they're not chinese. -_- i will say it a million times. Edit add Fire Imbue's highest and lowest with a 12.42 (not percent, the actual number ) mutiplier, include averages (you can do this yourself) With highs and lows, The only weak point of the wizard is the accursed pot delay and lack of versatility without a party.

Ok so this is what you are saying. Between 2 almost equal characters you would rather take the one with half HP...

In this calculation u for got to add the chinese fire imbue, sir...
Add the imbue power * 120% (from mastery) then tell me the result again


PS: who deleted my detect invisible thread? why?

It depends on what type of person the player is. Some people honestly prefer playing in parties, while others prefer soloing doing their ticket time.

I like defending people, i don't like duking it out 1v1 i like it when the odds are against me and i come out on top because of great teammates. As a chinese nuker when you lose, you're the only one to blame. As a European wizard when you lose, you blame the warrior(s). I'm just trying to emphasize Euro=party, and Chinese = solo, and in a party i would prefer the one built to help. The one who can give us 42% absorption, not the one who takes up space and doesn't contribute

1v1 i want the Chinese Spear nuker with snowshield.
PartyVParty i want the wizard with buffs, and party specific skills.

@Nuclear, alright I'll add imbue -_-; where is my calculator >.>

Don't forget, you can use your buffs on Chinese Ints too... Also I have to say that Chinese Nukes are better not only for damage because you can use your stronger ones more often plus you get Lion Shouts.

I added imbue, i think you and every other Chinese oriented player will like the results

I could use my buffs on chinese nukers, but they can't use their buffs on me

How is your Wizard supposed to buff you if he's dead from absolute damage...

-_-, warriors let won't him die, and one oblation he is back in the game. also 3 wizards not one. You need to party more often

2 Absolute Spells 1 with AoE. Your Wizard will just keep dying it will be pointless, and if he takes off LT then why not use the stronger damage dealer? And I've partied enough I know what I'm talking about... >_>

Oblation restores hp to 100% and increases total hp by 65%, the wizards 10k HP becomes 15k HP (80 cap) and with life control thats 7.6k hp, and oblation reduces dmg the wizard does by 50%, while LT increases dmg by 25% so oblation's effect is turned to 25%. And I know one of them is AoE, i already said how i would counter that earlier, my wizards won't be close enough for you to hit all of them. And you're forgetting Cleric Absolute dmg has a longer cast time than wizard Nukes, in the time you will do 1 AoE i will do 2 nukes and kill your cleric. The AoEs at this cap do 5.8k dmg (round to 6) Meaning my wiz will have 1.6k hp which will be healed in a matter of seconds by healing division.

You can't win -_- unless its European party Vs European Party. Your entire strategy revolves around you doing a 5.8k AoE absolute dmg atk on my 3 wizards. Your premise is that they will be bunched close enough to hit all of them and that you will be able to pull of the atk without anyone noticing you doing that long animation, and that we don't have a cleric to counter this strategy. The wizard(s) will do charged wind and be assured a KB.

only Europeans can beat Europeans on a equal playing field. I am using the stronger dmg dealer party wise. I don't want a build built for 1v1 PvP.

So your Wizards are stupid enough to leave Oblation buff on? You do know Oblation can be taken off right? Leaving Oblation on is so counter productive it's not even funny. If the Chinese Nuker would have never died in the first place but the Wizard needs to have Oblation on so they can live what is the point. That would make the Wizards damage stupidly lower than Chinese Nukers and really I would just ignore your Wizards at that point because they wouldn't be able to kill shit.(And once Oblation went down I would kill them again)

-_-, yes i know oblation can be turned off with a right click. There would be no point in turning it off, Europeans work together. TEAMWORK! is the key word, you fail to see this.

with lvl 78 force blessing buff the wizard will get a boost of about 4k +/- 1k hp (this is without oblation)

so 10k + 4k = 14k HP. (a spear nuker would have 16k)
14k/2 = 7k hp, your absolute does about 5.8k dmg that still leaves my wizard with a good amount of hp that will be returned with healing division in less than a ms.

So lets Isolate the 3 Wizards and your 1 cleric who will miraculously kill them all without incurring outside interference.

7k hp each wizard, 3 wizards. In the time you do 1 absolute the wizards can do 2 nukes. So You see a wiz with LT on and attempt to use your absolute dmg technique, the wizard uses charged wind, and the 1h warrior switches to 2h and does Dare Devil or the wizard after doing charged wind Nukes you for 25k. -_- you don't have facts only assumptions.

You want the wizard(s) dead, but can't kill them and i can kill your cleric because it only has bard buffs.

EDIT: and the chinese won't do more dmg than the wizard.

So, I roll a D20+8 against the goblin in leather armor (AC 12). I roll a 10 + 8 = 18 so I hit. Then I roll D8 damage +3 for my strength and hack the goblin. But seriously what's with the off topic endless hypothetical battles T.T . Obviously you two aren't gonna see eye to eye unless you actually fight eachother

Force Deity = Less Than 2K HP added...(Something like 1.7k)

And I'm not talking about that party anymore. I thought you said you were done with it anyway... I'm talking about Wizard vs Chinese Nuker. You are to stubborn to realize that 3k extra damage at lvl 120 is not worth half your HP. No matter how well he is protected in parties outside of parties it won't be worth it with such a small difference. You just don't realize that all characters aren't in parties 24/7. Heck most PvP done is not even in organized parties it is either 1v1 or in pickup parties that you find during jobbing and stuff.

It is stupid to even try to justify why Half of your HP is worth the small damage boost it will give compared to Chinese Nukers.

And unless the Wizard has perfect Blues and it is the AoE Absolute he will still die. And anyway at 120 the AoE one would deal more damage than the single anyway.(Lol)

I was doing this cap not 120 cap, and i already said that the chinese nuker is great for pick me up parties and 1v1, but in PartyVSParty the chinese nuker is worthless against a full party of europeans. I don't see your point :/, you have been arguing from a 1v1 point of view which i openly stated was correct.

I have been emphasizing that you're imposing the 1v1 chinese mentality on the Europeans, in response to this I pointed out why a Wizard is best in a party not solos. I already said that in 1v1 i want the spear nuker, and in Party VS Party i want the wizard. I even assumed everyone in both groups had perfect blues to prevent any flaws. You're assuming the Wizard is in base gear and so is the Cleric, you're also not thinking of how the Wizard could fight back.

How hard is it to understand this: 1v1: spear nuker or Wizard/Cleric.
Party: Wizard/(insert sub here).



And if you still want to talk about 1v1 well then:
Cleric VS Wizard/Cleric:
Cleric Tries for offering, in response the wizard teleports away.
The wizard then sets up a trap, and as the cleric comes forward the wizard KBs with Charged wind, and then Teleports away (again) after this the wiz turns on LT and Goes invis.
The cleric then activates bless and moves forward again and gets hit by the trap the Wizard stays invisible. The cleric then uses a pill and sees the Wiz, the wiz in response to being caught Turns off LT switches to cleric rod and shield then cast bless, he then teleports far out of range of any Cleric atks. The wizard keeps its distance with teles and Charged wind and good old running. Eventually the Cleric's Bless runs out before the wizards (the cleric cast his first) and the Wizard cast Charged wind, LT, and Nukes for 25k <~ just one of many strategies.

The only reason you're still arguing with me is because i have that Venus tag, if i had any other tag you would read my arguments realize you keep repeating what i type and back off. Instead you persist looking for every little thing to argue about, and the worst part is: You're not even good at it

@Nuclear, what will a chinese nuker, glaive, bow, or blade add to a party that their European Counterparts can't? Nothing, they add Nothing. Most people will go: "Pot Delay!" but there is no such thing in a well run party. People who party in good well run parties consistently should know their role and when to use their skills like the back of their hand.

European Parties (well run fully functional ones) are the most frightening thing to come by, whilst Chinese with 2 bards and a Cleric are easily "fckable".

Since ppl always say that hybrid is better than a pure build. So with the same analogy
European party < mixed race party
Chinese party < mixed race party

I agree. Euro only parties arent as great as a Mixed party. Just as how a Chinese party isnt as good as a mixed party.

imo a good pt share is:
1 Glaiver
2 Cleric/Wizards (Or 1, personal preference)
2 Nuker
1 Blader
1 Archer
1 Euro pure str

Mixed parties are Terrible with more than 2 chinese.
A comparison between Chinese and European

Glaiver: Can't buff, doesn't have many party friendly skills, not as strong as its warrior counterpart. Warlock has Stun, Sleep, and Slumber.
2 Clerics/Wizards: Well rounded character, that needs a warrior. Healing division, cycle, and Orbit: Earth Barrier(42% absorption) bless spell.
2 Nukers: Can't Buff, dmg is all over the Charts, AoE weaken as they Hit different targets, not as strong as a Wizard and not many party friendly skills.
Blader: The statuses can be used by Warlocks and set useless by the Cleric. KDs, not as high def as warrior, no party friendly buffs or moves.
Archer: once again primary problem is serious lack of buffs. Stun can be done by warriors and warlocks, can be outdmged by wizards, warriors and wizards have KB as well. Wizard has Fear and Warrior has KB.
1 Euro pure str: Lets assume its a warrior: fence, screen, and quota, but who will prevent him from dieing?, the 2 Clerics? They can't do continuous Blesses and Barriers, unless the str build has a Cleric sub.

EDIT:
A Chinese party with a cleric and 2 bards will work better than a pure Chinese party, but won't work better than a Pure European party. Current Hierarchy of parties:
Pure European > Mixed Majority Chinese > All Chinese.

a Mixed Chinese Party for me would be:
To many possibilities

Hmm... i take the shouts because it looks shockingly blue


and of course if i can stay far away from uniques that can kill me

example: fire nukes for the bomb is far right, then i can use the arrow, and some shocks, so i don't need to use the Wide and lightning nukes to get closer to unique.


oh crap i've just typed the usage for it in PVM


hmm... iono shock the enemy with ice imbue and freeze them

I'm not talking in 1v1 stand point you Farking idiot. I'm talking in an overall stand point. At 120 Wizards deal maybe 5% more damage than a Chinese Nuker but that is only possible if they sacrifice half their HP where as Chinese Nukers never have to and thus are strong in both Parties and Solo. It is not worth sacrificing half you HP even if he is well protected because he can still be 1 hit. Don't you get that?

You are trying to say that a character with half the HP is worth it more because they deal maybe 5% damage than the character who has double the health of it and deals only 5% less damage... Right now I can see how you can think that because they deal around 15% more damage but they don't become stronger where as the Chinese Nukers do almost to the point where they over power the Wizards. Don't you get it? Wizard = 1/2 HP + 5% More Damage Than Chinese Nuker < Chinese Nuker = Full HP + 5% Less Damage Than Wizard
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Ultimate Party at 120 for PvE is Euro Easily. 6 Wizards 2 Bards = 100% Absorption of Physical Damage + Unlimited Mana + Mana Consumption Reduction + Magical Damage Boost + Hit Ratio Boost is god IMO.

But for PvP it is definitely a Mix Party. Bow KB is so ridiculous after you get your 2nd KB combo that they are pretty much a necessity in all parties. Chinese Nukers are a more defensive build with only a little bit of reduction on damage compared to Wizard. Warriors are required to protect everyone. Cleric.(Lol) Party is able to move efficiently without being killed. Does not depend on Bard buffs. Can stop Bard buffs and has an efficient defense and offense.

2 Warriors
3 Chinese Nukers
2 Bows
1 Cleric