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I was just wondering what is the best rogue build?
I've seen alot people build rogue/bard is this the best rounded rogue build what are the pro's and cons..?And what skills do i have to learn for a rogue? i thought of not bothering with the crossbow skills and focusing on dagger skills all the way...What skills should i learn? any tips? please help

Eh...

There's no best in everything....just a copy 'n paste from an earlier post:

Rogue / Bard ~ The best for PvE, but the only thing it really gives you is speed....in the end (pvp aspect of the game) you're better off going with another sub. Though, people with Rogue normally go Xbow + Bard just for the leveling speed, or to farm, then eventually delvl for another sub.

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Rogue / Cleric ~ Can live longer than any other sub. Has buffs, resurrections, and recovery division / heals for that 15sec pot delay...also has the highest, or one of, absolute damage.

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Rogue / Warlock ~ Better suited for PvP. The interruptions and debuffs make it faster for you to dispose of your target. Though, since holy spell was changed at 100 cap, it's harder to deal with holy spell using people.

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Rogue / Warrior ~ Most versatile out of the bunch. Mixes the tankability of warrior and the quick attack damage of rogue (daggers), but it needs good gear and hp / vigor grains to do well in PvP.

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Rogue / Wizard ~ Most unique. Has 46% physical damage absorption for 20sec, teleport, group knockback, Mp drainage (can go through holyspell), fear (target can't hit you), bind (target can't move), and the group invisible where you can use your other weapons without it disappearing.

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Out of them all

Warrior / Rogue, Rogue / Cleric, and Rogue / Warlock do the best in PvP....However, if you're looking for something well rounded in both damage and defense, obviously Rogue / Cleric is a good choice.


As for the Dagger skills:


For Passives, eh...get Dagger Power Up, Hawk Eye, Stealth Dagger, Quick Step, and Dagger Desperate.

Skill wise, Wounds / Mortal Wounds, Combo Blow / Butterfly Blow, Scud, and Prick are your main useful skills.

Screw can be optional, though it can be good, since it has a stun probability. Spinning, you can just get to like lv1 just to use during the long cooldowns of your more useful attacks.

^ wow man you really researched all the rogue build possibilities props *hats off*.

to OP: sounds like rogue/cleric might suit you best...unless you excel in weapon switching and sit on a gold mine then warrior/rogue would be the best option.

If you decide for Warrior/Rogue, be ready for massive SP farming (1.8mil ~ 2mil for a fair character) and massive gold invested (5 weapons + shield, grains HP & Vigor), but pure pwnage in every aspect of game.

PvE - fast solo grind with xbow, accepted in parties as Warrior 1h/shield.
PvP - can wipe out any build, extremly fast, and can tank a bunch.
Unique hunting - Crossbow is here too.

thanks soo much to you guys i think i will go warrior/rogue i never thought of going with a sub class of warrior. So for the sub warrior class what skills should i learn? all the passive? and what weapon should i use for rogue/warrior?

he missed mine
not gonna comment what it is, just gonna release vid xD

Depends on how you'll play...

If you mainly just 8/8 pt to lvl up ...you'll be fine lvling just 1hs to be the tanker...

'll need the pt buffs and stuff, you know:

vital, taunt (don't need to max), sprint, iron / mana skins, pain quota, physical / magical fences, 'n protect as well as the screens

The 1hs passives and shield trash / bash from 1hs is really all you need.

Eventually, you'll get the other weapons, which you could use the 2hs passives, and practically all the 2hs skills

Now for DA ...depends on the person, some get the skills for dealing with certain builds (the attack speed and the status reduction passive), while others just get it for the stun / bleed from double / sudden twist.

Just for simplicity, you can get the passives and just Double Twist / Sudden Twist.

As for the weapons ...depends on the situation ...

grinding (solo), if you've skilled xbow, just use that....for giants, a mix of 1hs, 2hs, DA, and Daggers would suffice

1hs is really just for tanking or to apply Dull to slow down the mob and increase the damage to double swing | triple swing / double stab | cunning stab ....

DA is mainly just for the stun 'n bleed (interruption / damage increase (stun increases damage specifically to double | triple swing / double | cunning stab) while bleed increases damage to every attack)

2hs is for the damage 'n to kd, which you can follow up with daggers



Not sure how I missed one (general builds, not going into off-shoots, like a specific weapon from a tree) since I practically added every mastery tree there is for a Euro, but I am interested in what you have to show....I'm expecting an off-shoot, or some weird 3 tree build ^ ^

arigato Ningyotsukai-san.
perfect research.

i have a xbow100/bard90/warrior10 ^^ and yea, im not a beast at pvp but i like it, its funny.

so far ive never seen any build like mine
maybe there is, but ive never seen anyone before using it

oops scrap that

wow excellent post
I have something to add though : if you plan on playing in parties, the bard subclass is great.
STR bard is ok (less good than INT bard, but still ok in parties). Rogues in real good euro parties are "useless" : wizards do better damage, warriors tank better.

If you're rogue-warrior you can play warrior in parties but it's not really a subclass then, it's an entire second class with all the SP requirements that come with it : you'll need all your buffs and all your damage skills in order to play party warrior, although it's true that just one weapon is enough and required : 1H-sword.

STR-warlock, STR-wizard and STR-cleric make little sense in good parties I believe.

The bard subclass complements the rogue class ideally when it comes to party-play : the rogue is a soloing beast but a party-cripple (in serious parties), the bard is a perfect party subclass.

Gonna have to disagree with you in a few instances....

Yea, Bard does seemingly appeal to the get in, get out quickness that's suppose to be rogue...now as why I don't see Bard that useful is this:

Say you have this pt setup ~ 1 tank, 1 rogue, 1 cleric, 2 bards, 3 ints

Now, say both bards are str....alright, it's fine ...you have dances, not much of a loss

Then say one bard's str and another's int...now, with it's noise, it'll be able to tambour / dance and, being another int, it'll be able to be a damage dealer, thus making the leveling speed faster.

Now, I was looking at some of the skills and the thought that it's more benefiting that they're int kept coming to mind

And I never believed rogue was a party crippler...in sense, rogue lures better than any warrior I've seen....the only problem people have with rogues is the whole aggro switching ....which if they're cleric sub, makes it hell of a lot easier ....they can put up Recovery Division, lure and just spam group heals to keep the lure (forgot what version, but they had a str cleric be the aggro holder) and put up a poison circle near the group, just in-case they might lose aggro on one....don't let a suck-ass rogue in a pt cloud your judgment on the class, it can be really helpful with a decent player behind it with complimenting others playing their specific roles.

Bard doesn't really complement the rogue, because any rogue with a bard sub usually will be made to act solely as a bard (mainly like any other class)....which goes against what they're designed for: luring.

As for the Str lock / Str Cleric failing ...I'd have to disagree a lil' again

When pt'ing back on venus, at times all we had to use were str clerics (bro was warrior / cleric and could keep pts alive at satan)....the only thing that's really different is this: They can tank, thus, warrior buffs can go to someone else, and they need a bard's constant mana heals, oh and the heals are lower a bit....but in sense, if you got 2 warriors...all they have to do is constantly lure; drag their lures to the str cleric, have the aggro switch to them, go back to luring.

Now str lock is kinda different ....these were used mainly just for the DoTs....I kinda find a rogue / lock great ....can lure / lock in the pt (2 pt roles in one) and increase the zerk gainage faster, hightening the lvling speed.

that's very cool:)
i really dont have the experience to know all that.
it's so true that party-rogue-bard is kind of a waste, because you're limited to being str-bard and nearly wont use your rogue skills.
i had no idea a str cleric could tank while keeping aggro through group-heals.
indeed this complements the rogue-luring perfectly.

but rogues arent designed only for luring, especially the daggers-rogue : it's designed to be a damage-dealer. I've yet to see or hear about a rogue doing as good as or better damage than a wiz, while not taking the aggro from the tank:-(
i guess JM failed on that one.

i sometimes experiment with backstabbing, because the mobs do show a difference in aggroing according to the angle of your attack.

Alright xbow-rogue can be lurer, what about party-daggers-rogues? They should be damage dealers.

Anyway you've reset my perspective on the party rogue, i gotta keep your post for further pondering, memorizing and testing.

thanks.

No matter how you look, Rogue will never outdamage Wizard, because Wizard has AoE's, and definetally better for party play.

Rogues are only good for luring in party, with longshot.

The only time a rogue will do more damage than a wizard is when their prick crits and they have DD on, though yea...won't out damage one unless they crit a crap load...lol, otherwise, they're there just to lure

though, daggers are good to draw aggro on them when a mob goes after an int.

its rapid shot not long shot

Can lure with both, since both, with rapid having the longest, have distance increasers.

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Sept 19 UPDATE !! I found out how the warrior can keep aggro from the daggers rogue !
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=116288
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I wouldnt mind damaging wizards only on single targets.
I suppose I could do that with dagger-desperate on, but i would need the warrior to be able keep the aggro.


Maybe they are, but if that is the case this is a mishap from the developers.
Every class should be good in parties and no, luring isn't enough to qualify.


That's the beef i have with the rogues' party-role...they should be damage-dealers, including daggers-rogues. That's what rogues are about in classic RPGs : they backstab without taking aggro, doing huge damage.

Warriors take aggro much better than rogues do and it's ok, it's their role.

P.S. Ningyotsukai-san thank you for your insights on the rogue-subclasses, i'm thinking of going cleric:)
Recovery division hmm:)
Bless aaaah:))
Also I love playing cleric in parties. I guess I can do without moving march and noise. I'm that badass

True, warriors take aggro easier than rogues ....the whole pulling aggro with daggers is more for when a single target gets off from the main aggro holder ..with DD on and their fast attack speed, they can pull the aggro off from the ints in time to either kill the mob or the warrior draws it back on 'em.

Rogue / Cleric ...good build ^ ^

still no fast enough
rapid shot is best cuz cast time is like 1 second. and u can uure 3 mobs at the same time

Wasn't really disputing which was better, which is pretty obvious without me needing to state...or at least I think it should be obvious to practically everyone ....lol

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Sept 19 UPDATE !! I found out how the warrior can keep aggro from the daggers rogue !
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=116288
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I'm starting to imagine that warriors can keep aggro from daggers-rogues if they know their job well.
I just read in another thread that the 'vital increase' warrior skill raises the warrior's aggro by 300%.
Besides, the warrior has buffs which decrease the aggro of others.

Combine all the tools in the rogue's and the warrior's toolsets and use angle-of-attack and other mechanics, and it SHOULD work damnit. The whole rogue class' party usefulness is at stake.... it has to be doable, damnit.

No, luring isn't enough, of course not. It is a trickle, I want a river like any other class has.

About my subclass-change, i'm thinking about rogue-lock as well as rogue-cleric
Lock is more offensive, fun and surprising I feel.
Would be great to be able to cleric in parties though... the cleric role is the main role, the center of the parties, the supporter around whom everything revolves, it's a mother-role if you think of it.
Rogue-lock can be terribly offensive though, both in solo and in parties.
Rogue-bard is silly when you think of it, it doesn't add any damage nor debuffs nor health-related buffs. It is just a sneak-subclass.
I'm not even talking about rogue-warrior because I believe it is two chars in one, two full classes not a main class with its supporting subclass.
And rogue-wizard is like alien to me, unknown, enigmatic, out of range.

Anyway this is just so great how you have dispelled the lies that I have been taught in the venus legit community, that rogues had to be bards if they wanted to party after lvl 40.
How silly, ignorant and damaging to spread such misconceptions.
But I guess that's what you get for following advice of others instead of trying for yourself and making the build you feel like making.

Time for some new subclass fun woohoo ! )

Well, if you look at the warrior's skills, you'll see that all the attacks have an aggro increase to them.

As for the matter of "role", you can see that every class was made for a specific role, of course, some have less of a shackle on them than others... wizards (not as much as the others), warlocks, and rogues, in particular.

You lure with xbow and dependent on the sub, use that (sub) as the "damage dealers" finish them off...of course, there are times where you can lure and be a, what I'll call, a secondary damage dealer, then go onto lure again.

And it's weird that you brought up venus...I started off with BHA and picked a rogue / bard as my first character. Some time after, I saw it as a completely useless sub and went off with a warrior / rogue ...though of course, this build acts as either or in a pt, not really a combination of both (because the fences and vital / skins don't stick if you switch weaps)...

Though, I do like to test builds a lot...and two main builds in the euro race took my fancy: warrior and rogue. Even though I took a chinese as my main...lols

gL with the build, which ever direction you go ^ ^'

Wow....there's so many possibilities with rogues...i'm just gobsmacked with the possibilities and the support of SRF thanks everyone =D muchly appriciated

oh um...one minor thing i 4got to ask, should a rogue learn any poison skills + poison upgrades?

what would the benifits be to learn the poison?

i'm going rogue warlock
i could go cleric, but it's the easy and predictable way, the safe defensive build
i know cleric skills better than i know lock skills

lock skills promise to be funnier and more offensive

besides, as i enjoy daggers-rogue more than xbow-rogue in pt, lock complements daggers perfectly (highest damage, debuffing big targets) whereas as the other guy said cleric rogue is great for the xbow lurer keeping the aggro after having lured

lock fits the rogue spirit perfectly : sneaky and deadly

there has a been a recent thread about that
most have replied that poison skills are not worth the sp

i replied that i love my poison damage-over-time
even if it's arguably not a good damage-to-sp ratio
it is still free damage in the sense that it adds no time to your attacking routine

also, a fun point about poison damage is that it doesnt scale with the mob's level : it will do the same damage on a mangyang and on medusa.

finally, it lasts long... the other day i imagined i could have fun running around poisonning as many mobs as i can and letting the DoTs tick.
maybe then it would be great damage, i dont know.

but of course i dont care about sp-cost
if you do, you might consider not raising the poison skills

in a sense they are free sp : you let them unraised and thus have a less sp-costly rogue which is still a full rogue... poison is a fun option, i've yet to see or hear about a definite usefulness for it.

Just go rogue cleric . As someone pointed out if you grind at higher lv mobs you have more room in your party to vary. Because the whole point of a str cleric is the fact that he can heal good enough but he can also tank or atleast stay alive. Meaning 1 set of warrior buffs can go to someone else. I especially at chasers played alot as a str cleric and tbh its very safe and gives a party overall way more survivability.

However an int cleric might be prefered if the warriors are relatively weak to the mobs your grinding at. For example if there hp goes from 100 to 20 ( which shouldnt really happen) when they are tanking a alot of mobs then an int cleric is required. However if your warriors are fine a str cleric is sufficient. Because lets say a int cleric heals for 25k and a str cleric for 13k, thats still more then the total hp of a wizard.

And eventhough rogue's might have a chance as a lurer in a party. You will need a party with capable people ( which are quite hard to find I imagine). Also you have to deal with the image people have of rogue's, which makes it hard to get party's.

Keep in mind there is also a good reason people tend to choose 2 warriors over 1 warrior+1 rogue. Its just that much safer. If you try to grind on any non-cap mobs people usually dont have uber gear and you will also grind at mobs 11 lv's higher in which case a rogue is just not safe. The extra luring power you might get is also irrelevant cause at mobs 11 lv's higher even a bad warrior can keep up easily with the rate the wizards kill the mobs.

Furthermore Rogue's always say they lure much better. Which is just false. They lure different. Warriors can tank alot of mobs with 1hand + vital and also have fine luring skills. Resulting in them doing massive lures which rogue's simply cant do. Altough a rogue lures more frequently. In which case I wouldnt dare to say a rogue lures more. Especially if you have 2 tanks that lure in turns ( one does a big lure after another). Its just more then enough luring power, the only case this doesnt work as well is at the 99 mobs if you grind with lv 95+ wizards. Because the 99 mobs spawn in a way thats not really ideal for a warrior to lure compared to a rogue. Actually its the only party were I would consider taking a rogue over a wizard/bard or warrior. Altough in such a case a warrior with lv 10 fast shot and cleric would be even more preferable IMO.

If I can take chasers again as an example, wizards were sometimes lv 90 meaning they killed them really fast. Now 2 warriors couldnt give them enough targets. Would a rogue instead of a warrior make a difference? No, because there were simply no mobs in quota/fence range to lure, as a warrior you were waiting for them in that range to spawn again. Meaning 2 warriors are more then enough.

i might end up going cleric but i'm going warlock for now:)
i know cleric is good but it's the safe known boring way.
warlock is more promising fun-wise.