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 Post subject: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:32 am 
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BOOM, DO YOU WANT IT?
BOOM, DO YOU NEED IT?
BOOM, DO YOU HEAR IT?

LADIES AND GENTLEMAN.


Did that arouse you? Good, let's talk about Silk road. Yes, close down that porn tabs and "using a legit client" minimize you're "stalling 24/7" character.

I am currently farming a character on a server. 9 Gapping at level 43-47 then deleveling on Sonars and Penons using a triangle of power levelers, 3 wizards and I'm in the middle- in a sonar safe spot. Currently I make 35k SP every 12 hours, that's 70k SP a day.

I'm a Chinese Int nuker, Sword and Shield, and I have a problem.

No, it's not that I'm full of such epic win. (Although true)


I need to decide, eventually, between-

FIRE + ICE + SWORD

-or-

ICE + LIGHT + SWORD


Let's start off with Fire. With fire I get:

-Long ranged, powerful fire nukes.
*Nukes include wide AOE power nuke (Wide series), Burning splash nuke and that 1 hit "Bomb" from the arrow series.

-Powerful fire imbue.

-Lot's of magical defense when I solo Pve/Pvp.

-Immunity.

-Fire Wall for PVP versus Nukers, Bards, Wizards and suicide Clerics.


Let's go to lightning. With lightning, I get:


-Consistant, 300% magic, good nukes every 20 levels with a lower minimum, high maximum, guarantee'd lightning chain.

-Shouts.

-Speed for Solo pve/pvp.

-Magic attack buff.

-Phantom.

-Parry buff and parry passive.


So, it seems like there are trade off's.

What does everyone think? PVP wise, what's better? PVE? What's the damage compared, is there any proof one does more than the other? How important is immunity, mag defense and fire wall compared to phantom, mag attack buff and parry?

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:30 am 
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LIGHT

Can you describe in better detail your farming setup? You have tickets too btw?


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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:40 am 
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are you drunk or something... such an enthusiastic first post.

Anyways, deps.

Grinding, Light.
PvP, Fire.

No immunity sucks when pvping. Even with ice 80 fire 20, you'll have a tough time getting all acc 100% blues.

For pvping xbow and bowers, light has a slight advantage because it can close the gap quickly with a dash. The dash is the only real advantage light has in pvp.

Fire has immunity, longer range nukes, mag def, and fire wall.


I'd go with whichever you liked more. I chose fire ice bich bcuz i saw that the new imbues, fire and ice looked cool, but light... i swear thunderdragon vs thunderphoenix is the same shit.

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:19 am 
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Goseki wrote:
are you drunk or something... such an enthusiastic first post.

Anyways, deps.

Grinding, Light.
PvP, Fire.

No immunity sucks when pvping. Even with ice 80 fire 20, you'll have a tough time getting all acc 100% blues.

For pvping xbow and bowers, light has a slight advantage because it can close the gap quickly with a dash. The dash is the only real advantage light has in pvp.

Fire has immunity, longer range nukes, mag def, and fire wall.


I'd go with whichever you liked more. I chose fire ice bich bcuz i saw that the new imbues, fire and ice looked cool, but light... i swear thunderdragon vs thunderphoenix is the same shit.


Interesting.

I thought the same about fire, even the aesthetics part. I really need to have some input on damage, part of me says the Magical Damage modifier would result in higher MAXIMUM damage but a very low MINIMUM due to the nature of lightning nukes and IMBUE's.

Also, what is the difference in the nukes range from fire to ice?

TO THE GUY WHO JUST CAPPED LIGHT:

YAY LETS TALK LIKE THIS. CAN YOU GIVE ME ANY RATIONALE ON WHY YOU THINK/STATE WHAT YOU SAID? I'M CURIOUS.

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:36 am 
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To the inquiring of my farming:

It's simple. At level 32 (or... 35), leave skills at that and get to level 38.

Go find a sonar safe spot, and then you need anywhere from just one farmer (10-15k/ day) to 3 farmers (50-70k/day) in a triangle. You all know geometry, right? We're going to look at the rule "Angle Sum of a Triangle" which states that 180degree's is the maximum accumulation for a triangle (internal angles).

You're in the middle.

Directly north by... in game meters (measured in units by x, y coordinate) and the other 2 direction (inside of triangle, lines from middle of angles leading to central point) each radius distances at 40-60.

Make sure the 3 never get in range of eachother if possible but that the centers always in range of each of the three.

Brilliant technique, and if the wizzies or nukers are at level 76, items, tabs, gold and elixers drop like mad.

It's awesome. Delevel is only needed once every 2-3 days if its really intensive, and 30 minutes of killing near by sonars with a level 30 resser at hand = no problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:58 am 
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S/S shld really go Fire. S/S Makes better PVPer so might as well turn it into a better PVPer than a PVEer. see the point?

but light will do fine too. just in my opinion, not that great.

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:41 am 
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BaronSengir wrote:
i thought you were PRO as you said this on the other thread

SnowShael wrote:

You haven't played this game since 90 Cap, haven't you?

/Facepalm

To OP:

Standard S/S Pure int build. Farm SP for bicheon. Don't need fire, only noobs or PVE people get fire.


Read ahead, as I stated in my former thread, I made condolences to that statement.

Really, you simply cannot comprehend past a single post without taking into conception the entire discussion?

You're as bad as those radical christians or moslems that single out one reference and forget the entire context of the story.

Idiot.

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:24 am 
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Fire pwns light imo. Fire imbue and nukes make up for light's mag att buff, parry you can get with a good set, for a lvl 100, speed pots should not be a problem at all to afford (1 item drop would cover about 8 ).

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Last edited by Snazzi on Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:34 am 
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Kah00ner wrote:
Fire pwns light imo. Fire imbue and nukes make up for light's mag att buff, parry you can get with a good set, for a lvl 100, speed pots should not be a problem at all to afford (1 item drop would cover about 8).

This.

SnowShael wrote:
BaronSengir wrote:
i thought you were PRO as you said this on the other thread

SnowShael wrote:


Really, you simply cannot comprehend past a single post without taking into conception the entire discussion?

You're as bad as those radical christians or moslems that single out one reference and forget the entire context of the story.

Idiot.

Alrighty then. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:39 am 
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Edited, the 8) was meant to say 1 item drop could cover about 8. lol

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Tasdik wrote:
Alrighty then. :roll:


Yeah, I use weird ways to get a message across late at night. Lawl

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:06 pm 
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Fire > Light

But then again, I just love Fire/Ice/Weapon builds <3

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:07 pm 
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Actually he was talking about fire+ice+sword or lightning+ice+sword. It seems he has both the time and money to farm enough sp. That means he is going to level cold nukes aswell (at least that's what i'm thinking). In that case Force - Piercing Force would give that mag. atk. bonus to his cold nukes aswell, while fire would not increase anything. Someone stated that lightning should be used for pve that's acceptable. I don't really see the point on going on fire as a nuker. First of all - yeah yeah you can buy potions - you have that Thunder Walk Series, it does not just increase your movement speed, but gives you a skill which can be kinda useful both in pve and pvp (especially in pvp). The second of all fire imbue is the strongest in the game as far as i know. Could fire force's maximum magical attack power is 1434 and Thunder Phoenix Force's is 1267, but since you've got Force - Piercing Force it increases your imbues output damage aswell, so that would be 1496,05.
Fire gives you some physical damage increasing buffs. Let's use common sense, the lower your physical damage the lower that would increase since it's based on percentage.
What is really unargueable is that fire nuke hits somewhat more than lightning one and you've got some resist aswell. Actually you've got parry ration from lightning which is way better than that physical damage buffs in my opinion.

If i said something wrong please correct me, kinda new to nuker, but i guess i just said some trivial facts. Anyway i hope i could help just a little bit.

To answer the original question I'd take lightning+cold+sword, well already taken.


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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:20 am 
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@ the original poster:

I really like your writing style - you have great control of vocabulary and your writing flows naturally. However, I would turn down the cockiness a bit.

Currently I am farming a sword character as well, and I chose fire over light. My sole reasons for doing so were that fire deals more consistent damage, the fire nukes look nice, and I already had a hueksal/light/cold nuker that didn't turn out too well. Fire is more of a pvp build because it has better defense, while light is more of a pve build, since the light nukes and imbue cause splash damage and aggro more mobs onto you at one time.

Hope that helps

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:13 am 
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Lightning nukes look better at higher level, at low level it just look a disgusting yellow but higher levels its white-blueish which makes it freaking cool, as well as lion shout series.

it really depends. Are you a PVE or PVP person. PVE = Lightning, PVP = Fire. Thats probably all that needs to be said. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:48 am 
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In all honesty, I want to do the math for this. Does anyone have the basics of how Magical Damage % buffs are calculated, is it based on magic attack before imbue and skill, or is it factored in with some sort of a construct from base mag atk and balance + imbue + weapon mag atk/reinforce + nuke?

Because just looking at it plainly, if even a 20% magical damage buff directly to the imbue at level 1 of the max level imbue for lightning would bring it's minimum to 818.4 comparing to fire's level 1 max level imbue of damage MINIMUM to 860. Thats a whooping 40+ points on lightning for minimum,

Now let's look at the maximum:

Lightning maximum would be 1520.4 with the mag atk modifier at a 20% level. Fire's is 1424. That's a 100 maximum between the two imbues- so lightning is more inconsistent but deals not much less of a minimum AND a much higher maximum, Imbue wise (if that is how the modifier is applied).

Now let's see if the modifier is applied to nukes.

96 Fire nuke: 1267-2112 at 330%.

Lightning nuke minimum AFTER the modifier at level 90 Nuke ( a modifier of 20%) is 1186.
Fire nuke minimum if the nuke was 300% in comparison, FROM LEVEL 96, is 1151.86. (1267 originally)

Lightning nuke maximum AFTER the modifier at level 90 Nuke ( a modifier of 20%) is 2204.
Fire nuke maximum of the nuke was 300% in comparison, FROM LEVEL 96, is 1920. (2212 originally).


Recap:

Light nuke minimum w/ Mag atk 20%: 1186
Light nuke maximum w/ Mag atk 20%: 2204

Fire nuke minimum (Lv 96 nuke compared to a level 90): 1267
Fire nuke maximum (Lv 96 nuke compared to a level 90): 2212

Imbues: Lightning is behind 40 points on minimum and higher then 100 points on maximum when taking into account the Mag atk buff on lightning imbue compared to fire imbue.


Now, this is "20%", 18-19% is more appropriate, making lightning initially weaker but the nuke and imbue surpass the maximum regardless.

The nukes maximum's are essentially the same, but lightning nukes maximum is at fire nukes max from level 90 level 1 of the final nuke, while 6 levels later a 330% skill does the same max damage and only 81 minimum damage more. So it's safe to say that the lightning nuke by the time the char is at level 100 is- stronger and more practical than the 96 nuke, except for range.

Anyone else want to discuss the damages?

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:59 am 
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you're doing the math wrong. What you're doing is ignoring int points value as well as mis-using the mag power buff.

The 18% or 20% whatever mag dmg increase is factored in LAST. it's the dmg dealt. Not the base attk of the nuke or imbue. So without buff, dmg is 10k, with buff, it is 12k with 20% mag dmg inc.

The 330% of the fire imbue nukes means that the int points on your character have a certain dmg factor. It is multiplied by 330%.

There's more math involved, but that's how I remember it. NuclearSilo might have the way to do it. Forgot, but there were some ppl that figured out the dmg formula awhile back.

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:16 am 
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why so serious

just get the 1 you like and move on.

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am 
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larrylhm wrote:
why so serious

just get the 1 you like and move on.

:roll:

This. I don't really see the point in working everything out lol - Both are quite strong, I just prefer fire over light.

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:38 am 
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Goseki; I figured as much, I need this formula, bawwww

Also, yeah, it's easy to say "just pick what you like" when you're not the one farming 1mil SP -.-

Screw it tho, all evidence points to Fire/Ice/Bich.

Yay :dope:

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:46 am 
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SnowShael wrote:
Goseki; I figured as much, I need this formula, bawwww

Also, yeah, it's easy to say "just pick what you like" when you're not the one farming 1mil SP -.-

Screw it tho, all evidence points to Fire/Ice/Bich.

Yay :dope:

Nice, you chose right :yay: :yay: Good man.

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 Post subject: Re: Int Nuker Dilema. Fire, or Light?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:28 am 
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