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ok i know this is in the wrong section but id like a general opinion on this subject. i know for Pure int or int based builds the Imbue is very important.. But is it that importnat for str users?? , im currently making a blader and ive decided to use light imbue instead of fire because of splash , looks better , and its less seen. now i havent gotten a pure str char high enough lvl to see the differnece , this is why im asking you high lvl pure strs or str based users to help me . Will the damage difference Between Light and fire be that high at lvl 60+ or does it not make that big of a deal ???

no, you wont notice much/any difference w/ a str char, just that str tend to use fire, cuz they all need fire mastery

Lol, major diffrence from the Fire imbue to the Light imbue...

Light:286-452 Mag. dmg
Fire:351-584 Mag. dmg

For bladers use Fire/Cold imbue
For Glavie use Fire imbue
For Archers us Fire/Cold imbue

People only use lightning because they likes the looks...Looks don't win a war, Dmg and Gear do.

-Grim

I'm using lightning, and I use bow
I have 3 reasons :

It reduces parry, so you do more damage and bowers can use white/blue hawk, so parry+attack rating = more damage ^^

The second reasons is that you get alot of speed, speed can be the key for winning a battle when you are a bowman.

Last reason is that it saves a alot of sp because I use fore only for some buffs.

And it's true that the damage difference is not big if you are a pure str between imbues.

Lol.. wtf are you talking about....
I'm not talking about the mastery type....I'm only talking about the imbue...
All builds should have lightning for the buffs/speed..
What i'm saying is all users should not use the lightning imbue...(only fire/cold imbue)

If you want to find out what masterys you should have look at a sticky or sumthing...

-Grim

for my blader build im going 80 fire 80 light anf 80 bicheon .. and then 30 to heaskul just for hp passive... im gonna get all the light buffs and all the fire buffs so sp is not a problem in my choosing... i currently am using lighting because i aggro like 10 things then attack em wi th combos while splash adds damage....

i dont htink a blader should be using cold since its accualy a big difference between dmg and since theres the glitch for kd.. but for light it seems ok .. alot of ppl tellign me fire is way to go others say theres not a big difference so it doesnt matter.. i wanan be good at pvp at later lvls so i need to choose now before i waste a shitload of sp into the wrong one

meh im int and using the light immbude so i can 0 gap easier, when i farm i may get the fire immbude depending on wether i can be bothered

People (Bladers/archers) use cold imbue not for the increased dmg, but the freeze,frostbitten effect. Bladers use to slow down there opponents to be the ultimate tankers (Until they are immune in higher lvls), and archers use to slow down the enemy so they can't land any hits on them

-Grim

yes i know that , but Cold imbue in pvp at higher lvls = Pointless .. for a blader ur just a sitting duck doing little dagae to the opponent.. the question im asking for PURE str users if they have seen a big difference when they tried book 4 fire imbue and book 4 light imbue.. i know theres not many out there that have done htis but some advice would be appriecited .. i dont wanan get to lvl 50+ and figure out i could of been doing 500 dmg more per hit .. if the difference is small like 50-100 per hit then i wont mind as much... i apprieciete all those who posted tyring to help me

Well, I really wish someone could find a formula for this....

(THIS IS BOOK 4 MAXED)
Light:286-452 Mag. dmg
Fire:351-584 Mag. dmg
Cold:286-429 Mag. dmg

This would be multiplied by your weps Mag reinforce Percentage.
And this would be added onto your physical dmg.

You would have to subtract physical dmg from your enemy's physical dmg and the mag dmg from your enem'ys magical dmg.

This would be a random number added in with your parry ratio/attack rating thus increasing dmg.

And this should equal out to about 500-2000 dmg diffrence maybe more, from using fire instead of light imbue...

And this should equal out to about 500-2250 dmg diffrence maybe more, from using fire instead of cold imbue...

-Grim

P.S. Someone find a actual imbue dmg formula please

-Grim

so are you saying it will make a big difference or just a little amout?? like 200dmg per hit or around 500 per hit?

You couldnt be more wrong.


2000 damage?? what drugs r u on.


For a pure str lvl 80, the imbue does ALOT less damage. Lets say that they are averaging 5k per hit with a skill + imbue. About 3.5-4 k is done with just the skill. And u are saying that using fire u will do 2000 more damage over a light imbue user??? So according to your logic, lets say fire imbue does 1.5 k damage, adding up to 5k damage. Now since lighting does 1.5 k less than fire (as u said 500-2000 damage) ... lighting now does 0 damage..??

gg


The higher your phy balance, the less damage an imbue does compared to he damage of the un-imbued attack. You didnt take that into consideration.

so is the dmg differnece between light and fire alot at higher lvls or no?

Look up the real formula if you think that it's crap...And when I say 500-2000... I mean dmg ranging from 500 to 2000....Not 500-2000=1500...
Also, most people don't do 5K dmg as a Pure str user....(agianst an equal lvl mob) More like 7K-11K..

-Grim

*EDIT* Lol sorry I forgot to add >>(agianst an equal lvl mob)<< you can see my point now???

-Grim

Ok now your posts make no sence. So i want u to simply say 3 things.

1. What damage would u deal to a white mob at lvl 80 with fire imbue

2. What damage would u deal to a white mob at lvl 80 with light imbue

3. What damage would u deal to a white mob at lvl 80 with cold imbue

All of the above are assuming lvl 80 pure str glavie on the average hit against an equal lvl white mob with a skill activated.

Because u have molded around your words so dam much that i can either assume u mean there is a 500- 200 damage difference between the bimues, or some other sick twisted kind of blasted piece of logic.

ok well i went out and i did some testing ..i used both light and fire imbue book 1 max

i used the move Strike n smash 5 time normally without imbue on a hynugnu ghost solder and got this . 197
185
190
197
186
=
965 .. divide that out by 5 and that = 193.

ok i did the same hting again except i used light and fire imbues while use Strike n smash

Fire Light
277 264
270 285
278 277
276 285
283 253
= =
1384 / 5 = 276 1364 / 5 = 272

ok with these numbers i can tell that the light imbue adds 79 dmg ( 272-193 = 79) to the strike n smash on average . The fire imbue adds 83 dmg ( 276-193 = 83 ) to the strike n smash on average.

Book 1 light Max = 40-74
book 1 fire max = 50-83 as you can see there is a difference of around 10dmg

book 4 light = 243-452
book 4 fire = 307-511 as you can see there is a difference of around 60dmg


ok with these numbers i can tell you this.between book 1 max the difference was 10dmg.. and when i used strike n smash with each of the imbues on average fire did 5 more dmg .. so with this you can simply multiply 5 x 60 and it will tell you what the damage on average would be if you were using book 4 of the imbues... ok so lets calculate

5x60 = 300dmg... ok so with these calculations the fire imbue would do 300 dmg more than light on average with book 4 lvl 1 imbues... this number would increase because book 4 goes to lvl 9 not to lvl 1 .. so im guess here that it would be around 450-500 dmg difference between fire and light imbue when it is maxed.

i believe this is correct.. and if it is then 500dmg per hit for a blader is alot of dmg.. soooooo incuclusion it does make a difference even when your a str user.

You havnt taken in 1 important factor. The ratio of imbue damage : over all damage is much higher at lower lvls. At lower lvl's, u have a lower phy balance, meaning your imbue damage does a higher proportion of your overall damage compared to that of a high lvl pure str. Hence the results do no show anything.


Pretty much in conclusion, take both light and fire imbue. Farm the extra 15k or so ( w/e it is). Use light in PVE as the parry ratio affect WILL add up for the damage lost by the imbue. Also the slash affect will attract more mobs, which is a benifet. Then use fire for pvp in higher lvls, as most people will be immune to status.

my phy Balence is 94% .. at higher lvls i know its around 105% but the magical stays the same meanign higher lvl wouldnt effect my tests

no... wtf r you talking about?

last i checked, <7 secs ago>, imbues inflict status

Did someone say formula? Reference link:
http://www.silkroadforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=7262&highlight=

mag_dmg_base = int*int_reinforce/100 + mag_dmg
phy_dmg_base = (str*str_reinforce/100 + phy_dmg)*(100+wep_mastery_lv)/100

//damage output
phy_damage = (skill_dmg + base_phy_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent
mag_damage = (imbue_dmg * mastery_bonus_imbue +base_mag_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent

total_damage_output = phy_damage * phy_balance + mag_damage * mag_balance


Whether the formula is right or wrong is another issue. But, for sure the equation in bold is correct. It also answers your question about imbue for a pure str. Since the pure str mag balance is low (35-40%) and imbue is just one part of the damage calculation; you're essentially looking at a percentage of an already low mag balance percentage. So, according to this, imbue between forces (fire vs. light) at the same lvl, is very much irrelevant in terms of damage. In fact, if you sub in the appropriate values, you will even noticed that imbue damage difference between books are also quite irrelevant. Not sure if pure str experience this, but when you lvl up your fire imbue, do you see an immediate difference? According to this the answer should be no. The difference you see is mainly coming from lvling up your weapon skills.


EDIT: just to add, the weapon reinforce formula is irrelevant here because I would assume you use the same weapon for the 3 imbue comparison.

Also, as Grim listed about the imbue values:

Light:286-452 Mag. dmg
Fire:351-584 Mag. dmg
Cold:286-429 Mag. dmg

Again, according to the formula, these will be a percentage of a larger formula; and then reduced some more by multiplying by about 35-45% mag balance (typical of a pure str).

ok so in the end does it make a difference or no lol

Now thats what i was trying to say. The damage between the 2 forces is so minor. When grin said





If i am not mistaken by his TERRIBLE wording, he states that the damage difference between a fire imbue and a light imbue is any value between 500 and 2000 damage. Now that is simply false. The number would not get as high as 2000 per hit. Thats completely blow out. It would be as states before " irrelevant in terms of damage ".

Finally, Thank you so much Monk1690.

Before I Start formula..
shadowman20875: Imbues inflict status AND Magical dmg...That's y you see people say that fire does more dmg then cold... If you read the 3rd post it shows the imbue Magical dmg.

Formula:
Constant:
We shall have 109 int/376str(At Pure Str lvl 90)
Balance: 96% Phys. 52% Mag
Some bow that has 41 reinforce on each int and str
*Bow was chosen cause I found it on SRO screenshots page*
Bow: SOM lvl 16 +5 (No blues)
Physical Dmg:132-154
Mag Dmg:213-250
Info: Some lvl 90 guy with 90pacheon/90fire/90lightning/30ice finds a SoM lvl 16+5 bow in his storage picks it up and shoots somethings..(With imbue only)

Fire:
mag_dmg_base = int*int_reinforce/100 + mag_dmg
mag_dmg_base = 109*41/100 + 250
mag_dmg_base = 294.7

phy_dmg_base = (str*str_reinforce/100 + phy_dmg)*(100+wep_mastery_lv)/100
phy_dmg_base = (376*41/100 + 132)*(100+90)/100
phy_dmg_base = 286.1 * 1.9
phy_dmg_base = 543.5

//damage output
phy_damage = (skill_dmg + base_phy_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent
phy_damage = 543.5

mag_damage = (imbue_dmg * mastery_bonus_imbue +base_mag_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent
mag_damage = (584*1 + 294.7)
mag_damage = 878.7

total_damage_output = (phy_damage * phy_balance) + (mag_damage * mag_balance)
total_damage_output = (543.5 * 96) + (878.7 * 52)
total_damage_output = 97,868.4

Wow... I believe this formula is not correct unless you can find a dmg taken formula as well, maybe this massive amount of dmg (Which can't be right..) is nullified greatly with Mag/Phys Def. and buffs and such..

Remember...This was without any buffs going on... (Just fire imbue and normal attack...

So, formula is not right...

Monk1690: I've got a lvl 32 Fully farmed Pure Str Glavie with Maxed out fire book and such...
When testing my characters dmg, Every imbue lvl increases my dmg by about between 50 to 200 dmg increase..
Weapon skills had about 1K to 2K
Weapon skills included added about 2K to 4Kdmg with imbue
14K Crit on Mangyang Un-Zerk, Woot

I can see the diffrence greatly, maybe you can't because if your not fully farmed and can lvl weapon skill and imbue at the same time you can see the diffrence.

And for all you people saying I don't make sense...Just nod your head and move on.. FIRE IMBUE DOES MORE MDG THEN LIGHT IMBUE>>>DISCUSSION OVER<<<<

-Grim

Grim, buddy... the math is wrong... formula is right (i think)



The bold part should say:

total_damage_output = (543.5 * 0.96) + (878.7 * 0.52)
total_damage_output = 521.8 + 456.9 = 978.7

Actually, now that i read it carefully, the whole thing is wrong; you sub the values in the wrong spots : The parts in blue are corrected

Formula:
Constant:
We shall have 109 int/376str(At Pure Str lvl 90)
Balance: 96% Phys. 52% Mag

Physical Dmg:132-154
Mag Dmg:213-250

Fire:
mag_dmg_base = int*int_reinforce/100 + mag_dmg
mag_dmg_base = 109*41/100 + 250
mag_dmg_base = 294.7

phy_dmg_base = (str*str_reinforce/100 + phy_dmg)*(100+wep_mastery_lv)/100
phy_dmg_base = (376*41/100 + 132)*(100+90)/100
phy_dmg_base = 286.1 * 1.9
phy_dmg_base = 543.5

//damage output
phy_damage = (skill_dmg + base_phy_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent
phy_damage = 543.5

You have to add a skill damage above I'm going to pick strong bow at the max as an e.g. since you picked fire to the max. 287~389 (350%)

mag_damage = (imbue_dmg * mastery_bonus_imbue +base_mag_dmg) * skill_dmg_percent
mag_damage = (584*1 + 294.7)
mag_damage = 878.7

Actually, I'm going to re-write a simpler formula, since we already from the Character menus some of the values. I'll post again once I have that.

YES!

We already know that ok. The point which i am trying to argue is the % of overal damage that you loose by using the light imbue as compared to the fire imbue. I flamed u when u said that it was around 2000 damage on a pure str. And that was a justified flame. Now if anyone has a way using a PROVEN formula ( assuming that theres something wrong with the formula above) then it will be appreciated. I just want someone to show the % of damage lost *ignoring the status effects of the imbues* so we can justify taking light instead of fire or vise versa.

If not then thread over.

Just use whatever you like best, my blader only has book 1 lvl 1 ice imbue cuz that's my fave status effect and his dmg is fine, cuts black robbers down with an evil cut blade and a billow chain. I'll up it later I guess when I can afford the sp but right now why bother when it's working okay, if it ain't broke don't fix it lol

THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE PERIOD

lighting FTW

Just to make things more confusing for everyone. After some digging, I also found SuicideGrl’s calculation; it is easier to understand (wonder if SG can confirm the calculation?):

http://www.silkroadforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=14092&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

It goes something like this:
Total damage = (phys base dmg + [skill base dmg * skill dmg %]) * phys. balance % + ([mag base dmg + imbue dmg] * mag. balance %) = total dmg

These are stats from a pure str blader at lvl 64:
Phy attack = 1611
Mag attack = 1145
Phy balance % = 98%
Mag balance % = 30%

[Note: phy attack = phys base dmg]

Strong bow at lvl 64
Weapon skill base damage = 251~340
Weapon skill damage % = (350%)

Fire at lvl 65
Imbue damage = 307~511 (100%)

Damage Calcuation:
Total Damage = Phys Damage + Mag Damage
Phy Damage = (Phy att. + (weapon skill base dmg * weapon skill dmg %)) * (phy bal %)
Mag Damage = (Mag att. + imbue dmg) * (mag bal %)

Phy Damage = (1611 + (340*3.5))*0.98 = 2745
Mag Damage = (1145 + 511)*(0.30) = 497
Total Damage = 2745 + 497 = 3242

Assuming this is right, we now compare the lighting imbue: 243~452 (100%)
Phy Damage = (1611 + (340*3.5))*0.98 = 2745
Mag Damage = (1145 + 452)*(0.30) = 479
Total Damage = 2745 + 479 = 3224

Difference: Fire (3242) vs. Light (3224) --> wow, 18 dmg diff at lvl 64!

For argument sake, we can compare fire imbue at lvl 1: 16~26 (100%)
Phy Damage = (1611 + (340*3.5))*0.98 = 2745
Mag Damage = (1145 + 26)*(0.30) = 351
Total Damage = 2745 + 351 = 3096

Difference: Fire at lvl 65 (3242) vs. Fire at lvl 1 (3096) --> wow, 146 dmg diff at lvl 64!

This is assuming SuidcideGrl calculation is correct. Only way to verify this based on calculations is to think about hitting something at the same lvl. A lvl 63 Earth Ghost Bug HP is [8495]. This means it would take one Strong bow at 3096 plus 3 to 4 more regular arrows (at 1600ish) to kill something at the same lvl. This sounds about right