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I have a lvl 15 wizard with bard sub now. Some say that the cleric is very good for wizard cuz of the healing and defense spells. But i like the spells of bard more, the moving thing and the noise. So if i stay bard would i still be able to be good in pvp later on?

Also what is the maximun mastery with europe characters?? In china its 300 but what is it in europe

mastery limit is 160 now that means you can fully use your bard sub but for pvp,job,fortress cleric is better imo;)

keep bard. Its the most usefull by far.

Noise - Mobs wont attack you, unless they are champs/giants

Moving March - Mega Speed boost

save SP ( Bard < Cleric when it comes to SP needed)

You already 1 hit everything your level, even mobs 5 lvs higher. Might as well protect yourself with noise so you dont get mobs ganging you. With the whole cleric buff crap, you waste time and MP. Use bard for buffs and keep killing with Staff.

my 2 cents

Cleric is better for both PvP and PvE once you hit 40 and get Recovery Division.(Wear Light Armor)

Well i think cleric only makes you die less in the end. I actually dont like the light armor, so that makes me chose for bard first. Also the noise is very importend in my eyes . Cuz you can 1 or 2 hit mobs 2-4 lvls higher then you. But if you dont get the noise they will all start to attack you and you will die. I think that the cleric spells cant keep you alive, so i will stick with the bard in the beginnen.

I also party a lot, and there are always 1 or 2 clerics. They probably will buff you, and heal if its needed so i will stick to bard

Not making a Character because you don't like its armor is a bad reason to not make one. I grinded up about 14 levels without Noise when I was switching to Bard from Cleric and my friend botted his Wizard/Bard with only MM the whole time and got it to 80. You also don't seem to be sure about how well Cleric protects you and it will help alot more than Bard is what I can tell you, you contradict yourself "It will make you stay alive longer in the end...I think that Cleric Spells cant keep you alive...".

Plus partying is just another reason to take Cleric. Switching for a Bless Spell or switching to Cleric when there is none is much more apreciated than a MM, especially when others will have it.

Wizzard/Cleric is better for PvP

and Wizzard/Bard is better for leveling

i think wizzard/cleric is better

Wizard/Bard is by far better than Wizard/Cleric. I can confirm with you that a wizard/cleric will not survive against party mobs your level without Bless Spell, which you cannot keep up 24/7. One hit non-crit will take away more than 50% of your hp. If you make a wizard/cleric, you will spend your time figuring out how to tank, when tanking is simply impossible.

Wizard/Bard on the other hand is much better. Mobs won't see you, and you can run rapidly away from danger. It is better for you to never get hit.

The only place in the game that a wizard/cleric will be better than wizard/bard is in caves, where mobs with champs and giants spawns everywhere at a pretty fast rate. On top of that, you will be fighting in a entrapped space, preventing you from running away effectively. But just pretend caves don't exist and make a wizard/bard. It isn't worth the trouble.

and what about PvP? ... I disagree with you ... Wiz/Cleric > Wiz/Bard ...

yea probably for pvp the cleric is better. But i like the bard for the speed buff and the noise. But with the pvp wizard can go invisible and then you have a realy big suprise for your opponent, and you probably will kill him before he knows where you are. So i stay with bard for now

for pve cleric is a no go in parties lol.

that recovery division will hurt you more than it will help, just my 2 cents.

wizards are there to 1 hit kill
you are made to take out some hard targets.
having cleric sub wont make much difference most of your targets should be dead before they know you are there.

to take out targets in pvp you will need warrior and clerics to help you.
you should choose bard for the solo grinding times.

I made a lvl 46 Wiz/Cleric on hercules...and it sucked it PVP. Why i dont know? Thats wayyy to long to suck in my book so i deleted it :\ Now when Hera Comes Im making Wiz/Bard.

It is true that with bard subclass you will level up faster, but when you hit lvl 80 you will have only one usefull bard skill - moving march (or whatever its called). As for pvping - i hate running away from every person lvl 70+ as wizard, so switching to cleric makes you almost invincible and really comes in handy. Also for partying at generals cleric is much more usefull - i can tank 5 pt generals without bless spell and keep the whole pt at full health almost all the time. Still, all that doesnt mean that bard is a bad subclass, that speed skill really kicks ass, but i would recommend upgrading some buffs since they are very strong and useful for your teammates.

So, imho, wiz/cleric is better, but more SP consuming, unless you upgrade bard buffs. Its up to you.

You can't expect Wizards to be good at PvP. They always get killed easily Cleric secondary or not. Cleric secondary prevents being killed as easily as Bard and doesn't require you to sneak around every single PvP...(But remember that Cleric secondary doesn't prevent you from using Invisible)

For Bard it barely helps in PvE. I played both Cleric and Bard and I can tell you that it was WAY easier to grind with Cleric than it was Bard. Noise doesn't help as much as I expected. I rarely died to normal mobs when I was Cleric but now I die almost every time to Champions if I'm attacking another monster and Giants altogether, it is a huge gamble to be Bard and kill a Giant or you have to waste a lot of your Vigor grains and if a Champ spawns or Noise goes down... your dead. With Bard I went to town because I died almost every single time unless I grinded on green Mobs. If you did grind on higher mobs you would most likely be killed if they took more than 1 hit. You can make Bard if you want but you are walking into a disaster.

And you can't base any builds PvP on low level play. You have to be higher level and have good maxed gear before it's worth talking about.

I say Cleric ... and here is why
http://www.stage6.com/user/Zizilassss/v ... /Wizard-Xp

WOULD LIKE TO SEE A WIZARD/BARD SURVIVE THAT LOLOLOL... And in the 7 minutes he gained .15 XP which is pretty good, especially w/o Gold Time. A Wizard/Bard still would have agroed the other monsters with AoE on the 2nd giant and the Giant wouldn't have even been a possibility anyway. Even though he got mobbed he still survived by just using Healing Orbit, and he could have easily survived 3 without Orbit as long as he fought and didn't just sit there.

That build he has is the equivalent to the Guide in my Sig minus Light Armor, Cleric Armor Passives, and Healing Division/Favor.

W000000T on the vid nitrozz posted the wizard was just tanking :O. Man i think the cleric is better than bard now :O. How cares about the moving march now.

BUt which skillz should i take with the cleric?????? please reply so i can adept my character

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78571

Check that topic. I'm going to put in that guys build in their instead because I like how it worked and the SP is a lot less than my original.

!!!The guide has been updated now!!!