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 Post subject: [GUIDE] European SubClasses
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:17 pm 
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Before you start reading:
This is my first guide, give me opinions and advices, only flame if it is really necessary. I will be trying to make this topic the finisher of all those small questions about european subclasses. Forgive me, but my english is not perfect, so there may be some mistakes. This topic is kind of resumed. I thought a lot before doing this, so please answer in the same level, think before you speak.

Summary:
I- Warrior
II- Rogue
III- Wizard
IV- Warlock
V- Bard
VI- Cleric
VII- European Videos
VIII- To Finish


I- Warrior

-For further warrior subclass discussion: Link.

In my opinion, the best subclass for warrior is cleric. Bard will be only for speed, but in parties the role of a warrior will be tanking, so why taking bard? You will be a much more better overall warrior with cleric as sub. Some people use warlock as a sub of a 1h warrior, it is pretty good, you will be able to absorb your enemy life and deal some good damage to it (trough debuffing), but if you face an enemy with Holy Word, you will have some difficulties killing it.

II- Rogue

In bold: XemnasXD correct opinions due to experience and knowledge which I lacked about rogues.

-For further rogue subclass discussion: Link.

This is a very discussed one. In my opinion, the best subclass for xbow rogue will be bard. That is because in pvp and pve you will be able to 1 hit pretty much everything near your level. If you are not able to 1-3 hit something with CE or DD then you will have to run.

Not True. If your using Xbow which is the preferred PvE weapon your KB and KD skills will more than compensate if your not able to 1 hit mobs. In PvP if yoru Using Daggers or Xbow chances are you'll often encounter ppl you can't kill in 1-3 hits which is where sub-classes are supposed to help out. Theres tons of rogue videos out there showing Rogues having fights that can last as long as any Chinese PvP battle.

Cleric will be a great help while you are with CE or DD activated, you will have pretty much normal defense, with super attack, this will be a great help while pvping.

Not True. Its been tested b4 that casting Bless while having DD or CX active will not cancel out the effects of either you defense will still be extremely low and only slightly higher because DD and CX work in % not in points. If your using CX you'll benfit from Bless slightly because it will increase yoru Magic Defense since CX doesn't impede on that anyway.

While you are in pve, cleric will not be that usefull, it will only help when you get some mobs on you, or fighting a giant or party monster. With cleric you will also have recovery division, that lasts for a lot of time, and works as an autopot, this is an really great help, in both pvp and pve.

Recovery Division is great help in both party and Solo PvP. A Smart Rogue with a Cleric sub will simply cast bless if they get overwhelmed and fight off the mobs and then re-cast DD or CX when they are out of danger. Bards best PvE offering is Noise which won't help if your mobbed by champions or giants.

I do not know much about daggers rogue, but I think that its not so different from xbow rogue.

There is a big difference. Xbows and Dagger rogues have completely different playing style. One uses close combat and is always in the thick of the fight while the other stays far away and has access to range. Because of this they benefit differently from different subs. An Xbow user will benifit more from Noise than a Dagger rogue for example.

A lot of people will argue that with cleric as sub you will be able to tank, but you will never tank like an warrior, and without CE or DD an warrior would probably hit equal or more than you would. In pvp, probably your worst enemy will be warrior. Chineses using snow shields of around 50%, according to bigbamboo will not be able to outstand your hits, but they will probably represent some danger to you. Warriors will probably have cleric as sub and they already have mana skin and iron skin, so they will be able to tank for 45+45 = 90 seconds.

Any warrior with a Cleric or Warlock Subclass will be a problem for Rogues as well as plain Warlocks. But if a Rogue has Warlock Sub-class this immediately negates the staying power of Warriors making it the Best in terms of 1vs1 PvP.

Unfortunately there is no perfect build. Rogue/Warlock is not a good choice. If you want a high damage dealer with warlock as sub, then go Wizard/Warlock. You will be able to use warlock attacks and dots with ease as you will be an full int.

You clearly haven't seen a Rogue/Warlock in action. I could say alot but i'll refer you to this video. Rogue/Warlock PvP Compilation and leave it at that. (see some videos part for the link)

III- Wizard

-For further wizard subclass discussion: Link.

For wizard you will be able to get bard if you want to be the king of pve, or cleric if you want to be able to do some tanking. You will be pretty much like a rogue, able to 1-3 hit almost everything near your level. In my opinion the best subclass in average will be bard. You are able to kill almost everything without being touched. So Cleric is useless. Probably your worst enemy will be warrior, maybe some chineses with snow shield will be some trouble, but im not so sure. That is because warriors will probably have cleric as sub and they already have mana skin and iron skin, so they will be able to tank for 45+45 = 90s. Unfortunately there is no perfect build. There are some people who use warlock as sub, and they deal some uber damage, but your worst enemies will be those with holy word on. Wizard/Warlock is a good choice, for both pvp and pve, as you will be able to tank giants using warlock, and 1 hit pretty much anyone thats debuffed.

IV- Warlock

-For further warlock subclass discussion: Link.

I do not have much info about this one, but the best subclass would probably be cleric, as you will be able to do some real tanking, with bless spell, absorbing your enemies hp, and healing yourself with division. If you do not use Warlock/cleric then probably you will be doing another class with warlock as a sub.
Update: Warlock is a very formidable main class, so bard would be very useful as a subclass. Main positive points of bard subclass over cleric subclass: Speed, Requires less SP, Noise skill which makes aggro mobs ignore you (like passive ones).

V- Bard

-For further bard subclass discussion: Link.

Bard is almost only used as a sub. Well, if you are going to be an bard/something then its because you like to help parties, and so the best subclass would be cleric. If not, then you will be probably using bard as a subclass.

VI- Cleric

-For further cleric subclass discussion: Link.

Cleric is almost only used as a sub. The best subclass for cleric in my opinion is bard, as you will be an uber helper of your party, you can also get warlock as a sub for cleric, cleric/warlock or warlock/cleric are good party helpers and they do good in pvp too. If its not bard nor warlock, then you will be something/cleric, and therefore cleric will be the subclass.

VII- Some Videos
-Vapore, 1H Warrior/Warlock: Click here.
-Vortex, 2H Warrior: Click here.
-Euro PvP, shows a 2h warrior with no subclass and a rogue/cleric: Click here.
-Two videos of an wizard/warlock: Click here and here.
-A bard/cleric cool video: Click here.
-This is my preferred euro pvp video, shows a rogue/cleric, a 2h warrior, and an warlock/cleric : Click here.
-aHealer, an high lvl wizard/cleric pvp video: Click here.
-Another rogue/cleric video: Click here.
-An only rogue video: Click here.
-A rogue/warlock pvp compilation: Link.


VIII- To Finish
Well, the guide is not 100%, but with your HELP and OPINIONS we will maybe achieve it. Hope this topic helps. If you have questions about subclasses try asking them here, maybe I can further help you, and end up upgrading this topic trough your questions and debate. I will be frequently editing this guide to correct errors and keep it up-to-date with new strategies, and whatever I can.

EDITS:
-2008
- Updated rogue and wizard according to bigbamboo opinion. (Jan 03)
- Updated rogue again, according to bigbamboo help again. (Jan 03)
- Update with new videos. (Jan 03)
- Update with some more rogue videos. (Jan 04)
- Update with new video, and updated rogue part. Thanks to XemnasXD. (29 Mar)
- Update with rogue subclasses external link of discussion. (29 Mar)
- Added link to specific topics for the discussion of subclasses of each primary class. (11 April)
- Updated some parts of the guide.(April 29)
- Updated some minor points, mainly warlock part.(December 5)

FUTURE UPDATES::
- Make a summarized comparison for all main classes comparing their best/recommended subclasses.

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Last edited by raphaell666 on Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:39 pm, edited 24 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:59 pm 
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I couldnt say that better dude ... Really awesome guide
*clap* *clap*

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:58 am 
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Bravo, good for a first guide. One thing I would like to say though is that in my opinion the best sub for cleric is warlock because it is better offensively then bard and u can solo very well. Also, warlock is very good in parties with its DoT's and debuffs

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:01 am 
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you know, i wonder if anyone can make a successful cleric or bard character as their primary class as opposed to a sub-class...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:31 am 
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yea It happens a lot cleric/ watever or bard/ watever they are the main buffers/ healers

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:21 am 
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srry, but it think this is in wrong section -_-
other than that, good job!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:22 am 
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Good guide good guide!

One thing you missed out though is that Cleric as sub for Warrior is pretty much useless, you already have Mana and Iron Skin for "god" mode so in my opinion its better to take Bard to be a great soloer as well. Also, a Warrior wearing Heavy Armour will be uber slow, not the best combo in PvP or jobbing since a fully farmed nuker with a decent weapon will be able to kill you before you're even able to touch him.

Last remark is that you should post some videos to support your guide, like maybe a video of Vapore, the most sucessful Warrior/Warlock. This is because many young Warriors go with Warlock as sub without even knowing its purpose, they don't realise for example that the time you will spend putting DoT's on a giant will maybe cost the life of your Wizard or healer, and that in PvP, unless you have a really good shield, you will lose very precious time and you will take in a lot of damage. In summary you should add that Warrior/Warlock is only a build for those who like to own in PvP, as Warlock is not at all useful in solo grinding or in a party unless there is another Warrior to second you while you're putting spells on a party giant.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:26 am 
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fengsta wrote:
you know, i wonder if anyone can make a successful cleric or bard character as their primary class as opposed to a sub-class...

I do that. I have my cleric skills up to date to Lv60, and my wizard skills only at Lv44, so I can solo if I need to. (I only use Ice and Fire lines too)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:37 am 
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Found some good videos of Warriors for you.

Vapore, 1H Warrior/Warlock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8e1uk_X6Y
Vortex, 2H Warrior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKupLa_sGSU

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:15 am 
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Very nicely done :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:29 am 
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May I ask why so many ppl think that Cleric/Bard or Bard/Cleric is the ultimate party character ? I mean in a party everyone has it's role the Cleric should only do Cleric jobs and not Bard jobs as well and vice versa. If you switch weapons a lot of Cleric/Bard buffs will disappear.

I do agree that you have more possibilies to join a party. You will be able to join a party as Bard if the party already has a Cleric and you will be able to join a party as Cleric if no Cleric is present.

But in a party never ever do 2 jobs at once.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:54 am 
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Im not much of a regular poster but seeying your guide,its a nice effort but has too many faults which I adress below.


===Warrior==-
Cleric sub is appriopiate indeed and will make the tank even more of a tanking god.This is one of the few things I agree with in the guide.The reason I don't say bard is because during pvp or jobs/wars a 100% speedpot would be more beneficial then the 80 or so % speed a bard offers at lvl 80 with moving march.For Solo Grinding I think bard is best.

===Rogue==
Bard Sub is not useless like alot of people say,but it has limited purposes,speed and keeping some mobs away.Now here is where u make a mistake of saying only bless is valuable for a Rogue with cleric sub.You forget to mention that with a cleric sub a very important "law" is that Thou shalt get Recovery division(Autopot!!!).Taking these in account does not make having a cleric useless,infact even with XbowXtreme on Bless gives you the chance to tank a giant/party mob and kill fast enough or have enough (invincibility) time to run away.

One other mistake is that there is no such thing as mana shield higher then 50% at the moment.Remember to add that u completely forgot about Recovery division,which is how u totally ripoffed a Rogue's potential.

Also u neglect the damage a rogue makes without DD or Xtreme on.
Dmg depends on alot of factors,even warriors have 3 different choices,either 1 handed,2 handed or Axe,all with different damage from eachother and even So I have my doubts that a (2handed)warrior hits harder then a rogue,warriors are made for tanking not for doing more dmg then a DMG build like a Rogue.

Mana Shield or no Mana shield(i have an lvl 80 int char) against a Rogue who has uber damage as a Pure STR it will hurt like hell and with a good weapon possibly breaking trough it especially with a smexy crit.

End of my argument,be sure to counter my arguments if you possibly can or change your Guide because it's Misleading people.


===Wizard===

Ur right with bard a wizzie is King of Pve and I agree with you on the cleric part it's not more beneficial because a wizard is so fragile even with RD and bless.Hit and Run is the name of the game for a wizzard.

Snow shieldd get PWNED by a wizard with a decent staff at higher levels talking 72+ before that Snow shields get pwned even harder.A staff is FAR FAR FAR superior then that of a chinese spear/sword in magical damage,so do NOT understimate an euro wizard they are the one-or two hit wonders depending alot on the weapon.Ive compared a seal of sun lvl 64 spear with a 72+7 staff and the STAFF had more magical damage.


====Warlock=====
As far as Cleric as sub im neutral and will say I dont have enough facts to make a conclusion.

====Bard====
Same as above,im uninformed about all the possibilities a bard as a solo has.

===Cleric===
I'd go bard for the sole reason of having speed and noise to extra fullfill that part in a party where a Cleric's best home is.


===To finish===
Everything in this game is balanced,there is no Pwn build,remember.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:03 pm 
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Thanks for the help and all the support everyone. I will be soon updating the topic according to your opinions. Keep giving opinions and telling me your experiences. Most of what I done on this topic was based on observation or logic. Im just a little bit busy right now, but I will do it ASAP. I just have one question to kind of finish the rogue/cleric discussion:
Does CE and DD % less in defence, also affect the defense of bless spell? I mean: Lets say bless spell give you 100 def, if you use DD will you get 100 extra defense or only 25 because of the -75% ?

Thanks for all the commendations. I would also like to thanks for everyone thinking before posting, and not posting nonsense topics or topics without fundament.

EDIT: I will soon be putting videos, as MrSonic recommended. If you can, give me more links of european videos using subclasses, it will help a lot.

@Pawnage
I know this is not in guides and tutorials, but I think that most people ask before looking for guides, so here they will find it more easily, and most of subclasses debate is here, so it will be easier to, hum, develop this topic here.

@MrSonic
Thanks for your recommendations, but I have to criticize you: You talked about full str warriors using DoT? They will deal pretty weak damage with it, wont they? Correct me if im wrong, but your int stats affect greatly the damage of Dots. You said that warrior/warlock will own in pvp, I agree. But what if they fight with someone with holy word or fire sheild? They wont be able to minimize their foes defense, so the damage that they will deal will be pretty much low, as they will be using s/s. Therefore i think that warrior/warlock will be for both, pve and pvp, as you will be able to tank (being full str and using shield) even while you are casting curses on mobs. But I still think that warrior/cleric will do better in tanking jobs and will probably own an warrior/warlock in 1vs1 fight.

This is all for now, keep posting and giving your opinions, I love debates. 8)

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Last edited by raphaell666 on Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:16 pm 
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Quote:
Does CE and DD % less in defence, also affect the defense of bless spell? I mean: Lets say bless spell give you 100 def, if you use DD will you get 100 extra defense or only 25 because of the -75% ?



Even lvl 1 gives a bit more then 100 extra defence but yes you will get 100 extra def and not 25 of the -75%,Bless makes up for the loss of xbowextreme or DD giving the Rogue/Cleric user a feel that he's like normal defense with super damage for 45 sec.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:24 pm 
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bigbamboo wrote:
Quote:
Does CE and DD % less in defence, also affect the defense of bless spell? I mean: Lets say bless spell give you 100 def, if you use DD will you get 100 extra defense or only 25 because of the -75% ?



Even lvl 1 gives a bit more then 100 extra defence but yes you will get 100 extra def and not 25 of the -75%,Bless makes up for the loss of xbowextreme or DD giving the Rogue/Cleric user a feel that he's like normal defense with super damage for 45 sec.


Hmm, thanks, this changes a lot of things that I have thought about. I will update it ASAP. Thanks for all your help and opinions bigbamboo, I really appreciate it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:31 pm 
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No worries,with a few more updates it could become a very nice guide,considering it's something everybody would love to know about to complete their character..So nice idea of making a guide although i would like to remind u of one other thing.

Please don't forget to add Recovery Division(Cleric lvl 40 skill).It's as important as Bless for any rogue considering it's almost like chinese autopot in disguise.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:33 pm 
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Jesus, I completely forgot about that. :( Thanks again man. I will update it now.

EDIT: :D One more thing:
@ MrSonic
An warrior really need either cleric or warlock for tanking, as they will be an second way of auto healing, cleric either with recovery division or the normal healing skills and warlock by absorbing your foes hp. To be the best tanker an warrior absolutely NEED cleric as a sub OR an cleric buffing and helping him.

Also: @ everyone
I will be soon putting some videos, any help would be much appreciated, as im busy and im doing all the edits in a hurry. If you see any kind of error or mistake in the guide please tell me so I can correct it, as I said im not having much time to recheck the guide, but I will be doing it soon.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:37 pm 
added to the big chars n skills sticky.

sry i didnt sticky it before, i dont visit this section daily.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:24 pm 
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:D Thank you a lot cin. There is absolutely no problem about the delay. Im so glad this guide has been well accepted by the people from the forum.
Im watching some videos from youtube and will be soon putting some links here.

EDIT: I just added the videos, and I think the guide is almost, if not, ready. Im still waiting for questions/opinions/criticizing, mistakes I did and whatever I forgot.

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I got some info on Warlock/Cleric. ( int-tanker )
Well the advantages are the debuffs, and a warlock is very hard to kill in PvE. Where others die, he still lives. (blood sucking) Very good support char. Also does a warlock have more def bcus of a shield. In PvP its hard to kill bcus of the effects. Cleric makes the build complete. (Holy word/bless spell/recovery division)

On higher lvls (40+) you get to hit multiple targets

The negative aspects of a warlock are that the durabililty of his weapon drops very fast and he doesn't do a lot of dmg.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:49 pm 
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Not saying that u hav to do this but I think it would really be helpful to new players if u added some pictures of the skills u should get. Also, pics make a guide not as boring (not saying ur guide is boring) and pics will make ur guide look more professional and really draw the reader in. That is just my opinion.

P.S. wrong link for ur 6th vid

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noobert mclagg wrote:
Not saying that u hav to do this but I think it would really be helpful to new players if u added some pictures of the skills u should get. Also, pics make a guide not as boring (not saying ur guide is boring) and pics will make ur guide look more professional and really draw the reader in. That is just my opinion.

P.S. wrong link for ur 6th vid


I agree. Man, I would like to have some pictures to put here. Unfortunately, now I dont have, and I think I cant make some. I will keep myself alert to cool pictures that have something to do with this and will try to bring them here. I will see if I can make some european skill pics, help would be much appreciated.

About the P.S.: I corrected it. Thanks for pointing it out. Keep it up :P

Thanks for everything man, keep like that, I appreciate all your help.

EDIT: Ups. Thanks Luukje, I will see what I can add trough your post, on the guide. I appreciate you guys trying to help me. 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:53 am 
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Sorry for not using edit button, but I think it would get a little bit confusing, to use it again on my last post. So, hum, I was thinking now, how I could put skill pics on my guide. It is not suposed to tell how to skill your char, it just give you advices about which subclasses you can choose from to your class. So I dont think I will be using them. If you know where I can use them, tell me. I appreciate who is trying to help me. Thanks a lot. Maybe if I get some will and expand my guide to how to skill also, then I will be using it. Thanks again.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:49 am 
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i've been thinking about maybe later making a cleric/rouge for pvp? or vise versa, because i know clerics will most likely always be a priority target.. but with rouge skills, slitely sneaky? 0.o just a fun idea (another fun idea war/rouge) As you can see im a noob to europe -.- :banghead:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:16 pm 
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In order to use either stealth skills (rogue) or defensive skills (warrior), you will need to mantain an weapon of that class equipped. E.g.: If you use stealth and change your weapon to, hum lets say, cleric rod, then you will de-stealth. Same with iron skin and mana skin (increase your defense) from warrior. Doing those types of builds you mentioned wont be a good idea, IMO they will be kinda incomplete.

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Some wizard/cleric information.

This build is mainly if you don't want to use alot of hp potions, be able to PvP longer, kill giants better and being more useful in a party.
Considering that we have a huge cooldown on the potions, makes it pretty much even more useful.
All the healing spells are fast-to-cast so you could fullheal yourself in the midle of the battle in few seconds
IF YOUR FAST ENOUGH AND DON'T DIE before that happens ofcourse ^_^ (So i'd suggest having your rod and a healing spell in a quick slot you can reach without problems), the build also has the defensive buff thats pretty much alot useful, a 45s buff that makes a wizard able to withstand most of the attack by even a party giant
Later on the build at lv30 has a regeneration spell thats pretty much the opposite of the bards Mana regen spell, only difference is that it regenerates HP instead of mana, the spell doensn't have any cooldown and heals you to full hp in 1-2 seconds, keeping you invulnerable for 16 seconds from opponents that can't kill you in 1 hit but the downside of this spell is that it only holds for 16 seconds and its troublesome to recast every 15seconds , plus it burns out alot of mana so you'll be out of mana before you notice its too late ;P so be cautios.
Another benefit is that you'll have a anti-status spell wich will make you resist almost any debuff and negative status.
At lv40 there's a regeneration spell thats like a buff lasting 300 seconds and heals random amounts of hp in random amounts of time (generaly just saves you the trouble of changing weapons and healing if your hit by a opponent while soloing, but isn't really reliable in a long-term battle as a giant fights or PvP.)
Of offensive spells you get one powerful yet [color=crimson]Two Edged Blade
, at the same time it deals great damage and leaves your vulnerable with only 5% hp left from using it , but if you have Healing Cycle on you when using it then you should be pretty much fine.
Ofcourse some other benefits are ressurecting and being useful as the role of a healer in a party if you have groupheal and some blessings.



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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] European SubClasses
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:24 pm 
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Nice guide, but regarding the wizzard part...sorry to say you are wrong...from my experience with my wizzard, bard is kinda useless for a wizzard except for that speed buff...it's true you also get some noise buff but at a higher lvl you won't care so much about mobs, plus that champions/giants ignore the buff, so it's pretty much useless...The buffs bard has are actually very strong, but are all party oriented, so they are useless for soloing...Cleric is a very different story...RD + Bless spell+light armor(one thing which hasn't been discussed here) = wizzard ownage...remember, wizzard's only goal is to survive the time it takes him to cast 2 nukes, which would kill anything except a mana skinned warrior. And the higher phy defence the better...why? because int's are not an ostacle...wizzard nukes cast faster, they have higher range, cause immense damage, so int's really have no chance...the only real problem are str's, especially warriors and xbow rogues...so any bit of phy defence helps...
Dagger rogues are also hard to overcome, but there's that one skill nobody levels which will render them useless towards you...called a fire/lava trap.just plant one and sit on it...no dagger can touch you ^^ especially with DD on.
Not mentioning the tons of buffs cleric has, plus some passive defences.so with a nice rod and a shiled, you actually stand a better chance against an xbow rogue(i think, im not sure yet).
Overall, wizzard is way better with cleric than bard...but each has its own oppinion ^_^.


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] European SubClasses
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:28 pm 
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Warrior - If you do use parties then other than your extra Bless Spell your skills won't do anything, that includes PvP unless you think 1v1 is really PvP lulz. But for 1v1 nobody seems to run around because they're stupid and try to be honorable or some shit so in iSRO Cleric would be best. For Solo PvE and Party play Bard is better because you already have Iron + Mana skin and thats basicly all you need, if you need more than that amount of time something is wrong, the other guy is to high, or you are Dual Axe/1H Sword(Which will be able to survive). And BTW Vortex isn't a Warrior/Cleric or Bard he's a Rogue...

Rogue - Agreed, except if you are going to talk about secondaries then you should know your chars better, except for maybe Warlock since not many.

Wizard - After a long time of grinding my Wizard/Bard I'd actually have to disagree and say that Wizard/Cleric is better than both either way. Light armor, Armor Passives, 2 Types Armor Buffs(Bless and Blessings), and healing helps so much more compared to Bard and really I never used Noise as much as I expected I would. I 1 hitted monsters so much that unless they spawned right next to me, and were agressive, would it be useful. Also Giants are hard as hell to kill without Vigors and if you don't kill them will most likely attack you sometime. But, buffing as a Bard IMO is best buffing since you can go AFK. And actually I'm going to stress that you still get 1 hit when you have Bless Spell on so if you can find a good way to grind a Wizard/Bard then take it instead.

Warlock - I've never even seen a Warlock/Bard anyway so w/e.

Bard - Bard/Cleric best possibility.

Cleric - Cleric/Bard only possibility because if you aren't Bard Buffing then you are Cleric buffing and all your Blessings will cancel if you Actively use Warlock skills.

BTW Cleric primary > Bard primary for Cleric and Bard combo. Even if it costs more SP, which I'm not sure of, It definitely has more functionality.

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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] European SubClasses
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:10 pm 
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I just want to add that bards as the main class isn't as bad as you think. Granted, our damage isn't the greatest in the world, but with the buffs and noise, we do well in both solo and party situations. Just don't fight giants or uniques alone.


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 Post subject: Re: [GUIDE] European SubClasses
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:44 am 
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I want to ask If I am a wizzard/cleric and i keep the weapon I am not using in my bag..(so if im wizzard and have cleric rod in bag)
If I die is it possible to drop that weapon? If so that seems risky...


Thanks

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