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 Post subject: DO YOU have 2 or more IMBUES, PLEASE HELP
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:11 pm 
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Make sure you look at the balances. these builds vary from 1:1 hybrid-pure int.

warning The % increase for critical is WRONG. Yes I did the math wrong. Don't worry though you can do it yourself.

The way to calculate average damage increase is critical/regular.
Image

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Image

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Why do we use % figures?
If you just look at the raw data you will see that the difference in damage between fire and ice for Miagye was 65dmg.
And the diference for tomiotar was 470dmg.
If you take a look at just that you might say OMG there is like no difference between fire and ice at low level, but a huge difference at high level.
However the % takes into consideration weapon and monster defense and you find out that they are exactly the same.

I listed % difference of a critical to find out if imbue had any effect on critical. Based on this data I would say imbue has little to no effect.
Because it doesn't have any effect then go by the % difference regular since there was more data for regular shots making it more accurate.

If critical damage is based on your str then why is the % increase for miagye and Glavie is higher than the str builds?


If you are level 50+ and have 2 or 3 imbues I need your help.

Pick a monster. and do a skill+imbue hit on it. And record the data. Make sure you label criticals. If you have imbues at different levels, you will have to either use a lower book where both are maxed, or just let me know.


If you want to test nukes be my guest, I will take all raw data and make an easy to read chart.

How much does the critical stat on a weapon increase your chance of critical?

For the information to be accurate I need at least 30 non crit imbued shots, and at least 10 critical hits per imbue type. The more data the higher the accuracy.

Use this form when you submit your data


Character Level:
weapon skill and level:
Weapon mastery:
Imbue 1 type, imbue level, mastery level:
Imbue 2 type, imbue level, mastery level:
Imbue 3 type, imbue level, mastery level:
Weapon used:
Critical on weapon:
Physical and mag balance fully dressed:
Monster:

Example:

Character Level: 54
weapon skill and level: bow antidevil book3 level1
Weapon mastery: 53
Imbue 1 type, imbue level, mastery level: ice, book3 level1, mastery level 54
Imbue 2 type, imbue level, mastery level: light book3 level1, mastery level 54
Imbue 3 type, imbue level, mastery level: NA
Critical on weapon: 10
Physical and mag balance fully dressed: 82:86
Monster: devil yeti

Ice imbue:
2465
2570
2994
4540 crit
2751
5000 crit

light imbue:
2501
4771 crit


*Note i made all this data up Its for example only*

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Last edited by glavie on Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:01 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:13 pm 
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I'm L65, but I'm 9-gapping. My main imbue, Fire, is on the 3rd book, L6. But I'm also currently leveling up Ice, and while Ice is on L50, my Imbue is only on L8 of the FIRST book.
Would that still help? Or do the levels need to be equal?

Think this is a great idea, BTW.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:13 pm 
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Sry to burst your bubble but you should only have 1 imbue, unless you plan on farming an extra 15k.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:14 pm 
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snag12 wrote:
Sry to burst your bubble but you should only have 1 imbue, unless you plan on farming an extra 15k.


Not a problem. As a Pure STR Blader, I prefer to take Ice as well as Fire. You'd be surprised to find how many people at my Level aren't Ice-Immune. And besides, Ice is wonderful for PvE.

Pure STR Ice Blader - original badass.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:18 pm 
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fena wrote:
I'm L65, but I'm 9-gapping. My main imbue, Fire, is on the 3rd book, L6. But I'm also currently leveling up Ice, and while Ice is on L50, my Imbue is only on L8 of the FIRST book.
Would that still help? Or do the levels need to be equal?

Think this is a great idea, BTW.


Drop ice.. It's fun and all to use but the damage you will see on a Karra is almost half of fire nuke book 2-lv 14 (max). Eh, I personally think dropping ice would be the best idea, especially for farming, will only slow you down. As for your imbue, again, I doubt in a week's time from now you wont like your decision, way better off getting light (that is is your a nuker, does huge good, Grass walk- 65% and also Pierce- Piercing Force and Phantom Walk. Much better idea over Ice. But it's your char and not mine so do as you wish.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:20 pm 
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fena wrote:
snag12 wrote:
Sry to burst your bubble but you should only have 1 imbue, unless you plan on farming an extra 15k.


Not a problem. As a Pure STR Blader, I prefer to take Ice as well as Fire. You'd be surprised to find how many people at my Level aren't Ice-Immune. And besides, Ice is wonderful for PvE.

Pure STR Ice Blader - original badass.


I'm going to agree with you, I have no idea why people arent Ice Bladers. You would not believe all the heavy PVP'ers who arent immune to ice. Your right about one thing to ;) The ol' Classic Pure Str Ice Blader. Kick ass indeed with PvE.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:36 pm 
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snag12 wrote:
fena wrote:
I'm L65, but I'm 9-gapping. My main imbue, Fire, is on the 3rd book, L6. But I'm also currently leveling up Ice, and while Ice is on L50, my Imbue is only on L8 of the FIRST book.
Would that still help? Or do the levels need to be equal?

Think this is a great idea, BTW.


Drop ice.. It's fun and all to use but the damage you will see on a Karra is almost half of fire nuke book 2-lv 14 (max). Eh, I personally think dropping ice would be the best idea, especially for farming, will only slow you down. As for your imbue, again, I doubt in a week's time from now you wont like your decision, way better off getting light (that is is your a nuker, does huge good, Grass walk- 65% and also Pierce- Piercing Force and Phantom Walk. Much better idea over Ice. But it's your char and not mine so do as you wish.


I'm a Pure STR Blader. :P But you already figured that out, as seen from your second post, haha.
(Next time, edit the first one. 8))


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:45 pm 
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Im a hybrid int s/s and once im farmed imma get the ice imbue^^

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:00 pm 
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fena wrote:
I'm L65, but I'm 9-gapping. My main imbue, Fire, is on the 3rd book, L6. But I'm also currently leveling up Ice, and while Ice is on L50, my Imbue is only on L8 of the FIRST book.
Would that still help? Or do the levels need to be equal?

Think this is a great idea, BTW.



Thanks for your interest. :)
Right now your imbues are 2 far apart. Maybe if you can get a minimum of book2 ice maxed and compare with book 2 fire maxed. That would work. I think book1 of each imbue would be 2 low for the differences to show up.

I hope we get some pure str characters and int characters to post data, it would be cool to know how int and str affects imbue.

I think there are a lot of int characters thinking of deleveling fire to get ice for the new mana shield. This data will help them decide if the damage reduction is worth it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:03 pm 
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glavie wrote:
fena wrote:
I'm L65, but I'm 9-gapping. My main imbue, Fire, is on the 3rd book, L6. But I'm also currently leveling up Ice, and while Ice is on L50, my Imbue is only on L8 of the FIRST book.
Would that still help? Or do the levels need to be equal?

Think this is a great idea, BTW.



Thanks for your interest. :)
Right now your imbues are 2 far apart. Maybe if you can get a minimum of book2 ice maxed and compare with book 2 fire maxed. That would work. I think book1 of each imbue would be 2 low for the differences to show up.

I hope we get some pure str characters and int characters to post data, it would be cool to know how int and str affects imbue.

I think there are a lot of int characters thinking of deleveling fire to get ice for the new mana shield. This data will help them decide if the damage reduction is worth it.


Once again, very good idea. Liking it alot.
I'm going to try to have Ice up to the 3rd book, on the same Level as Fire, within about 2-3 days or so. If you want, I could come back then, and try it, i fyou want.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:17 pm 
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snag12 wrote:
Sry to burst your bubble but you should only have 1 imbue, unless you plan on farming an extra 15k.


Your right.
I am trying to give people the information they need to choose the right imbue for them.

This will be the first hard data post, that will give real numbers. Not just "ice sucks, fire rocks" kinda info.

If you look at the last page you will see some of the info for ice and light I have already collected.

http://silkroadforums.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=810


@ Fena When you have the imbues leveled up, I would love to see some data. Just PM me with the info In the format of the form I added at the top of the thread. In your case I guess, knock down would be the most logical skill to test it on.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:57 pm 
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snag12 wrote:
Sry to burst your bubble but you should only have 1 imbue, unless you plan on farming an extra 15k.


Theres nothing stopping most people whilst waiting for 90 cap maxing every single skill in 3/4/5 skill trees like me. Hens 2 maxed imbues.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:04 pm 
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Crumpets wrote:
snag12 wrote:
Sry to burst your bubble but you should only have 1 imbue, unless you plan on farming an extra 15k.


Theres nothing stopping most people whilst waiting for 90 cap maxing every single skill in 3/4/5 skill trees like me. Hens 2 maxed imbues.


Crumpets Please help us if you have 2 maxed imbues.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:26 pm 
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Come on, guys. Nobody?
I think Glavie has a great idea here, personally.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:42 pm 
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Ice immunity will be gone sooner or later i think, maybe im wrong lol.
Dont lose hope 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:57 am 
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fena wrote:
snag12 wrote:
Sry to burst your bubble but you should only have 1 imbue, unless you plan on farming an extra 15k.


Not a problem. As a Pure STR Blader, I prefer to take Ice as well as Fire. You'd be surprised to find how many people at my Level aren't Ice-Immune. And besides, Ice is wonderful for PvE.

Pure STR Ice Blader - original badass.

More like original annoyance lol. I imagine it will be effective once ice immunity is gone but bladers are annoying to fight as it is even without ice~KD and stab for every move it seems like. :x

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:10 am 
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I would only say that you would sorta gimp yourself in PVP with Ice if your a blader, only slightly, due to the bug when a you attempt a knockdown on a frostbitten or frozen mob it doesn't actually work and they start spazzing out and glitching all over the place, the person/monster looks knockdowned but actually isn't, and its pretty frustrating.

But in PVE you can pretty much own all, Devil Cut + Ice Imbue is just bliss, they'll be frostbitten or frozen by a blade of energy. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:29 am 
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This was the test that I did to test the damage difference between fire and ice. The day that new skills were announced I decide to change my gap from 0 to 5 and I use the SP that I got to full farm fire imbue:

Pacheon 77 Ice 69 (Ice imbue fully maxed)

Image


Pacheon 72 Fire 69 (fire imbue fully maxed)

Image


So basically the diference between both is the damge decrease of having 5 gap instead of 0 gap.


Currently I use both imbues during pvp and grinding. For grinding I use fire on normal mobs and ice on giants, and for pvp obviously ice for non-inume and fire for inmunes.

PD: I have a pic of me doing just 38 over the cap on a champion mangyan and the mangyan actually survive to my zerk devil arrow crit :P (crumpets was correct, you do on the mob that you kill same damage that you see on the pic :banghead: ).


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 Post subject: Re: DO YOU have 2 or more IMBUES, PLEASE HELP
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:38 am 
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glavie wrote:
If you are level 50+ and have 2 or 3 imbues I need your help.

Pick a monster. and do a skill+imbue hit on it. And record the data. Make sure you label criticals. If you have imbues at different levels, you will have to either use a lower book where both are maxed, or just let me know.


If you want to test nukes be my guest, I will take all raw data and make an easy to read chart.

Criticals are affected by imbues, wouldn't it be nice to know by how much?

How much does the critical stat on a weapon increase your chance of critical?

For the information to be accurate I need at least 30 non crit imbued shots, and at least 10 critical hits per imbue type. The more data the higher the accuracy.

Use this form when you submit your data


Character Level:
weapon skill and level:
Weapon mastery:
Imbue 1 type, imbue level, mastery level:
Imbue 2 type, imbue level, mastery level:
Imbue 3 type, imbue level, mastery level:
Weapon used:
Critical on weapon:
Physical and mag balance fully dressed:
Monster:

Example:

Character Level: 54
weapon skill and level: bow antidevil book3 level1
Weapon mastery: 53
Imbue 1 type, imbue level, mastery level: ice, book3 level1, mastery level 54
Imbue 2 type, imbue level, mastery level: light book3 level1, mastery level 54
Imbue 3 type, imbue level, mastery level: NA
Critical on weapon: 10
Physical and mag balance fully dressed: 82:86
Monster: devil yeti

Ice imbue:
2465
2570
2994
4540 crit
2751
5000 crit

light imbue:
2501
4771 crit


*Note i made all this data up Its for example only*



i try to stick to one. witch for me is lighting. but if i have some extra sp ill get the cold one. just jacking off you know. lol.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:51 pm 
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Tomiotar

Didn't you just say in the 70:70 noob thread that masteries have no effect on imbue strength? Aren't you contradicting yourself.

If you still have both imbues at high level pelase help us out by doing the experiment above.

It only takes about 15min or less. to do the test. I just did it on the mob I normally farm on.


There are people like miage fena and me who are really interested on the info you can give us.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:55 pm 
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Quote:
I'm going to agree with you, I have no idea why people arent Ice Bladers. You would not believe all the heavy PVP'ers who arent immune to ice. Your right about one thing to The ol' Classic Pure Str Ice Blader. Kick ass indeed with PvE.

and
Quote:
Drop ice.. It's fun and all to use but the damage you will see on a Karra is almost half of fire nuke book 2-lv 14 (max). Eh, I personally think dropping ice would be the best idea, especially for farming, will only slow you down. As for your imbue, again, I doubt in a week's time from now you wont like your decision, way better off getting light (that is is your a nuker, does huge good, Grass walk- 65% and also Pierce- Piercing Force and Phantom Walk. Much better idea over Ice. But it's your char and not mine so do as you wish.


WTH??!!??, did you just contradict yourself,or was that sarcasm

btw,fena is a pure str blad0rz :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:05 pm 
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I think we are getting off topic.................Would it be possible to leave ice bladders to a different thread :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:20 pm 
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glavie wrote:
Tomiotar

Didn't you just say in the 70:70 noob thread that masteries have no effect on imbue strength? Aren't you contradicting yourself.

If you still have both imbues at high level pelase help us out by doing the experiment above.

It only takes about 15min or less. to do the test. I just did it on the mob I normally farm on.


There are people like miage fena and me who are really interested on the info you can give us.



I said that imbue mastery has no effect on the damage when you use weapon skills. On my pics you can see the effect of lowering my weapon mastery on 5, keeping imbue mastery at same level but using fire instead of ice. So, weapon mastery has a significant effect on weapon skills damage but that has not effect is force mastery. You can have your force mastery at any value between 69 to 80 with no effect on weapon skills, but Im sure that for nukes the important mastery is the force mastery(fire, ice or light that nuke belong) but Im not a nuker to test it.

The good point of being archer is that you get really frequently the highest possible damage you can deal, so you can see a high value that repeat very frequently. Now Im trainning on shamans and mages and I see that with fire my highest value is around 8,1K and with ice is 7,5k on regular hits (lvl 78 6 gap, both imbues maxed and ice and fire at 69).


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:12 pm 
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Tomiator

Ah i understand what you are saying about the masteries now.

So you are saying that there is a 600 damage difference between fire and ice on the highest hits non crit. Is that antidevil? What about when you crit? When I tested ice and light. My damage difference doubled. Ie. You would have a 1200 damaged difference. Can you find out if this is true for you as well.

If you can get me the raw data we will soon have enough info to determine the effect of imbue on pure str all the way to pure int.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:48 pm 
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Ive just finished the test. I did 50 shots with fire and 50 with ice always using same buff and skill:

Devil arrow 297 - 402 (350%) 29 attack rating

flame body (7% phys dmg)
fire passive lvl6 (6% phys dmg)
Speed piercing force (15% mag dmg)
Blue hawk lvl 1 (26 attack rating)
Pacheon passive lvl6 (27 attack rating)

With fire I got 44 regular hits and 6 crits:

Highest regular value: 8145
Average value: 7560
Lowest regular value: 6352

Highest crit: 11531 (I know I can do it better but dont get it on the test :x )
Average crit: 10939
Lowest crit: 10423


With ice I got 46 regular hits and just 4 crits :( :

Highest regular value: 7631
Average regular value: 7090
Lowest regular value: 6101

Highest crit: 11002
Average crit: 10464 (with 4 hits I dont think is representative)
Lowest crit: 9833


I was saving to excel during the test so if you want I can copy all the values and send it to you with a PM.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:59 pm 
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fena wrote:
snag12 wrote:
Sry to burst your bubble but you should only have 1 imbue, unless you plan on farming an extra 15k.


Not a problem. As a Pure STR Blader, I prefer to take Ice as well as Fire. You'd be surprised to find how many people at my Level aren't Ice-Immune. And besides, Ice is wonderful for PvE.

Pure STR Ice Blader - original badass.

AMEN

EDIt: Ill get my damage info to you as soon as I get home :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:07 pm 
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Awesome tomiotar
I really appreciate this. If you could send me the excel data via pm that would be great. To be honest I am not sure exactly how I am going to represent this.

Any suggestions are welcome on how to portray the info. I would eventually like this data to get a sticky in the Character and Skills section.

What are your balances Tomiotar, also what is the crit on your bow, you seem to have a 10% chance of critical without antidevil.

Everyone else, either post your info here, or pm me directly. At this point there is no such thing as to much info.

:)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:51 pm 
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snag12 wrote:
fena wrote:
snag12 wrote:
Sry to burst your bubble but you should only have 1 imbue, unless you plan on farming an extra 15k.


Not a problem. As a Pure STR Blader, I prefer to take Ice as well as Fire. You'd be surprised to find how many people at my Level aren't Ice-Immune. And besides, Ice is wonderful for PvE.

Pure STR Ice Blader - original badass.


I'm going to agree with you, I have no idea why people arent Ice Bladers. You would not believe all the heavy PVP'ers who arent immune to ice. Your right about one thing to ;) The ol' Classic Pure Str Ice Blader. Kick ass indeed with PvE.

+1 - even scarier is the bladers that will keep ice after the skills update...that's going to be scary. Gonna be harder to run from them if you're frozen to the ground.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:48 pm 
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I just want to thank Miage for getting me some data.

I need a lot more, keep it coming.

:) :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:57 pm 
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I will help too. I have all three imbues on a lv 16-17 farmer character. Do you need that data too? Just PM me and i'll be glad to give you the info.

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