Silkroad Online Forums

Edit: Excuse the fact that my post is not directly related to what has been said above me.


Thank you Fly, Nightbloom, Avalon. Thank you Suicide Girl, BHA. Thank you to all those that continue to fight bots day in, day out on this server despite the dramas.

As a BHA member to Avalon members, as one legit player to another, I just wish to share with you all the appreciation that I feel everytime I log onto Venus and see actual people chatting and partying together. No mistake, that is the result of much hardwork over a long period of time by many people - most working in the background whose deeds will never be known by others.

I am glad that this forum is so active and people are so passionate when debating these issues because there is only one thing worse than a over-heated debate and that is indifference. Not giving a stuff, kills.

However, flaming and insulting each other, in some cases by name, is not the most effective way to resolve issues. People become too distracted by the way things are being said rather than what is being said. It turns into a shouting match and ironically no one is heard in the end.

Therefore I ask all those who are going to post, please do so in the spirit of wanting to make Venus a better place for everyone. Have your say, come up with new ideas together, but keep the flame wars and personal grudges for elsewhere.


Continue please.

All Empires fail, and for the same reasons: 1. Expense of military abroad, and subsidies at home, 2. Decline in domestic productivity (spoiled, parasitic citizens), and 3. Corruption (illegal conduct) and decadence (unethical and immoral conduct) by leaders and citizens.

Phase 2- Maturation
* Strength: Become a world leader in both economic and military strength. Homeland receives cheap imports from colonies. Currency is debased to foster ‘growth and prosperity'.

* Government: Grows stronger and acts as boss, manager, nanny, owner, etc. Power is used to ‘manage’ other nations to impose/protect its ‘interests’

* Ethics: Corruption and decadence grow due to decline in personal responsibility caused by nanny state.

Phase 3- Decline and/or Failure
* Land: Lose colonies by revolution or voluntary release (due to expense and unrest).



* Strength: No longer a world leader. Power declines by 50% or more. Value of fake currency crashes in purchasing power by 50% or more. Default on debt (or pay off with low value paper money).



* Government: Gets weak and desperate. Leaders try to gain power to survive citizen discontent. ‘Bread and Circuses’ grow, now called grants, subsidies and entitlements.



* Ethics: Corruption and decadence are rampant in both social and government conduct. Failure occurs as either; A. Nation survives, but at a reduced level of strength and standard of living (England, France, Spain, and Russia are examples; see list in Part D), or B. Ceases to exist due to takeover by other nations or groups.



When we thrust our soldiers into the role of occupiers, we are giving them a choice: commit war crimes, or die. Become a monster, or a corpse.

Doesn´t that sound fimmilair Fly?


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.", Edmund Burke

Ok, please show me where in that quote it says BHA is supporting bots???? It says we don't want to play Fly's style of game, we prefer a different approach. And please don't bring up the same old examples of where this approach fails, because BHA will just throw the same old examples back at you that have been discussed endlessly. This is a perfect example of seeing what you want to see, instead of what is actually written.
I questioned Fly twice about the same thing at the beginning of this post and he never respond to either request. I guess he didn't have any answer on how forcing legits from the server with his tactics helps his war.
BHA is not divided, some people want to be more aggressive against the bots, so they are, others prefer not be so they aren't. That's BHA, we give people a choice on how they want to play the game. That's called a democracy. That is the part Fly doesn't like.

Okay I'm glad for seeing such replies.. thats wot I expected...

Here you got an example Fly mentioned earlier and it got ignored... It's MagicRik..

What about MagicRic? He's banned from here and blacklisted in game. Now, if you're talking about that misunderstanding. Oh, here we go again: More misunderstandings.

/sighs
*signs out*
*signs back in*
*reads Venus*
*lols*
*Reads Combat Arm Thread*
*Goes back to Venus*
*sighs*

Good Times.

T3d, read the Venus Fortress thread. We made a breakthrough while you were just ignoring everyone else's post.

I know, and I'm glad you did.. now visit your inbox and see my PM

.....wow.....

That is by far, the most intelligent post in this topic.

T3ddy, I said, don't bring up the same old examples, because if you want to, I'll throw examples right back at you. But they haven't gotten us anywhere in the past, so it's not going to change in this discussion.

The problem is very simple, BHA has been called bot supporters. This makes us feel like all the work we've done has no value. Have we done it as much as Avalon's core, no, do I appreciate what they've done, yes. I also appreciate the freedom provided for me by my country's armed forces and police, could I do what they do, no. Does that mean I'm not allowed to enjoy my country as long as I respect the laws laid down? I will respect any rules if I know them. An example is it was stated before "since when are we not allowed to say "hi" to botters". I've seen plenty of conversations from both Ava and BHA with Illusionist at Gens, obviously those people didn't know the rule either. So when I first go there and he's talking away and people that have been at gens far longer than me are talking back (and remember, this is both unions)how am I supposed to know this is against the rules. This don't say 'hi' rule came into effect when it suited Ava's purpose with the Rik incident, in my 8x lvls prior I've not heard this rule, and the actions I've seen have been contrary. So why now? Why is it ok to being distro parties with bots, that gives them a feeling of belonging as well. I know some of the high levels in CTF won't party with bots, but I've seen plenty of high Ava's party with them. You want the ss, I got them. Again, it's this making up the rules as we go along that is frustrating the hell out of BHA, so SG finally said we'd had enough, our union, our rules that way we know what's expected of us.

Alright, having just caught up on some of the stuff said on the Confed forums, I can state that the problem is exactly what I said it was earlier. There is a breakdown in communication, yes that is evident, but there is also a breakdown in what has been established. Now I'm not finger pointing at either side for this, so don't go jumping down my throat over that.

Basically, this is happening because of small things. Small actions, which may seem irrelevant, are making the bots feel accepted. To an outside point of view, unless they know the internal drama, we are allies. By doing so much as saying hello, they think they're being accepted by the legit community.

Yup, breakdown in communication, both between the unions, and between the legits and botters.

To have any chance of rectifying this, the unions need to come to a finalised, firm and harsh agreement. I know that majority of BHA is there to have fun. That's cool, that's how you do things. But when legits form either union act nice to bots, it undoes the knot.

It sends the same messages that screwed the older servers. You bot but I accept you because I'm doing what I want.

The war is best won through a denial of fun. Harsh yes, but effective. The reason it works so well is because it is a game based on interactions.

Now the part which I'll probably get attacked for most, I agree with Fly's stance on this 100%, but I state and direct this at ALL parties from BOTH unions; stay firm and harsh in your resolve to remove the bots. You can be as carebear or whatever as you like towards other legits, but do not give bots that pleasure.

I welcome any flames, as I sense they'll more then likely come, but you have to realise that harsh rules were laid down for a reason.

I agree with that guy who said "wow".

This stuff starts, because there are drama queens around in the first place. Theres irrelevant problems around between the two unions, like you all stated. But in most case it's personal problems and not guild problems. People just fail to solve problems in a mature way with each other, and prefer to go on forums and post "z0mfg!!!111! that guy KSed me11!11!!1!"

besides, most people don't say "omg i got a problem with this guy", they say "I have a problem with a BHA/Avalon member" what makes it a UNION problem instead of personal problem.

That's why you start problems. Stop attacking on a full union because you got a personal problem with a member who is in the union. Go solve your personal problems yourself instead of coming on forums and starting drama about unions. If you think someone is dumb, at least don't blame him for having BHA/Avalon over his name, accuse him for being dumb. Stop acting like drama b1tches and solve things in a mature and personal way.

Nuff said.

Seriously I dunno much individual incidents.. but I believe that SG's stance is the problem... and yeah, Necrobat is right, we lack communication..

No-one is going against the Harsh Rule, afaik. Only people who have been in Avalon or think like Fly know what Fly expects. BHA is carebear towards other legits. I don't know where all this carebear towards botters nonsense came from. Stance towards botters has been the same since day one for most Legits who came to Venus. Tbh, Fly you brought BHA in to early. You should have made more Unions, but as subordinates to your own Union. Once the bots are completely gone you can add more Legits and Have fun.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of bots is for BHA to do nothing.",

Doesn´t that sound fimmilair Glenn?

What the fack made u think that?


That what exactly fly did wrong.


We should argue about that.

And u guys saying magicdick, ims, w.e. Then what about k0d? Isnt he a confirmed botter? And I prolly now why hes still in midnight.

Fack mathar, read post okie noop.

OnT: How about this rule, write it down:

Let it be known: There shall be no fraternizing with the enemy unless to demean, harass, or insult.

So can BHA Avalon nao?

I have seen it stated, and I've read conflicting views, however that may also be something to do with the fact I am half asleep at the same time. But it was something I did see while I was still active in game anyway.

I tried to make clear I wasn't finger pointing either, so no need to take offense at it if you are, I'm just stating that any members who do so are indirectly putting the entire effort into serious jeopardy.

let me tell you a little story.

in the 60 cap, almost 3 full years ago, I ran across a player named Professional. He was in Blackhand guild. Remember, this is on Xian. Well this player added a member that we kicked out of TE a day ago. This member was Carere a total moron and there is a famous video by nightbloom about him if you wanna see more. Anyways, we told him to kick the noob and he did.

A week later, Professional got into an argument with a member of TE who left his guild to join ours due to growing anti-TE bullshit in BH. As a result a huge flame war bagan which spilled
over into SRF. As a result TE and BH fought a war both of actions and words for around a full month. That was came to a close when professional gave up and quit sro. He was then replaced by SG who ended the war instantly. Good move since we had atleast 10-15 players over 52 while they had only 2 players over 52.

So, 5-6 months of peace and calm.

Then comes the 70 cap. Ryoko, a friend of SG and the founder/owner of SRF is getting picked on in his guild SuddenDeath. He leaves and makes a new guild. He happens also to be a good friend of mine so he joins my union. At this time SD dies on xian and the players murge into BH. This is the only time in sro history that BH had any kind of real power. As a result it went str8 to there head. BHA has a fit and announce that they will be murdering him on sight. When Ryoko asks his good friend SG for help, he gets no reply. SG is not willing to risk losing his 15 minets of fame even if it means watching a good friend get slaughtered. Avalon had to step in and protect him. We would get 2-5 Avalon members to grind in the same cave room as him just to keep him from getting picked on. This bullshit goes on for around a month. Tired of leadership that cant make up its mind, all the high levels of BH leave and form there own guild. Now that BH is back to being a small carebear guild with no chance at power, SG makes up with Ryoko and peace is back once again.

end of epic story.

If you think this is something new or unpredictable your wrong. I know how my "allies" work just as much as i know my enemy.

This will continue to go on untill either A) bh gets a new leader, or B) BH loses there slim hope at being top dog on venus. Till then SG will not risk any action that might drive away a single high level. Get hard on bots, lose IMS. Make up with Avalon, lose Axe and Goob.

Time will be the only bandaid to this problem. Given enought time cracks in there leadership will show, there house will begin to crumble, activity goes down, and the weaker they get, the more friendly they get. Its not a coincidence that all this BS started the min they go to an equal level. No one enjoys being in 2nd place. No one enjoys the thought of never getting that glory and respect of being the best. BHA is being torn in 2 directions. well 3 really. You have those that want the glory and want to fight avalon. you have those that respect and support avalon. and you have the carebear middle that wants to send avalon dirty looks while "having fun".

They need to man up and attack us head on. Until they do so, there will always be that feeling in BHA that they were cheated out of there potential.

I love it when you guys talk about the past. So now it all comes down to ancient feuds that won't stay dead. Well, I don't know enough Xian History so this is my cue to back out. I'm an Alexander boy.



Why can't you fuse those two. You can respect yet want to battle someone.

EDIT: Feel free to pm more stories, though.

Why are people comparing us to Hera, did we join a bot union to fight against the legits wtf has hera got to do with us?

its not an ancient fued. it was forgiven and almost forgotten a long time ago. To totaly forget would mean you repeat your mistakes. I study the past and how each peice reacted in that situation. Its what gives me the edge in the current situation. I can predict and counter almost every move made.



you can, but not when your being held back. If you want to fight but are told not to, you have no choice but to sit there and build up anger. If BHA attacked us a month ago, they would be simple rivals with no hard feelings.

I bring up the past so you can understand how the future will turn out. Its just a matter of time until the yingyang holding BHA together tips to one side and all hell breaks loose.

Like a game of chess. Strategy appears to be your forte.

Fly your wrong if anything our ties to BHA has grown stronger over the past few months because of your comments and your backstabbing.

One example is me i wasnt so aggressive but your constant attacking of my union has made me a different person in this game i was super anti bot and very aggresive to bots, but now i gotta watch my unions back from you and all my aggresion is pointing at you.

so what whould be your ideal outcome? peace with avalon at the cost of having to boot people like IMS, or open war with avalon?

Group.
READ
OR
UNIFY
Polarization.

What, What?

Why would we kick ims he has done nothing wrong you make no sense?

So IMS really is at the root of this tree.

thats a prefect answer. directly you challange my view without answering in a way that would look bad on you. indirectly you answer the question perfectly so it does not look like your hiding from the question.

i hope to see you next FW

lol what!!!! have you got a personal vendetta against ims, you need to get over it, you guys need to look at your own union you have kod who admits to botting you have mai who botted to lvl 59/60 and you focusing on ims who has a friend who started botting.

You all need to seriously leave IMS alone, he hasnt done a damn thing wrong. If hes booted or blacklisted from the alliance for being a friend with rik since before we've ever even heard of silkroad, then youll have to do the same to me.