Chaos Theory

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

There is a way to search Google.com and limit the search to .edu sites (and .pdf files) for specific subjects.
A new member who shall remain nameless (but his initials are 'The Joker') may appreciate these results: Chaos Theory. The other thread was closed before I noticed it.

Oh, from Google.com you can enter these search parameters to duplicate my result:

Vandango · **Joined:** Jun 2006 **Posts:** 4143 **Location:**

I Can bet one of those results has somthing to do with the advertising in video games.
:roll:

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

Naw, I'm just fishing for somebody (esp. "The Joker") who could speak about stochastic process without looking at Wiki. Thought I'd take him at face value and see.

Priam · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:13 pm

Thanks for re-opening a topic on the subject, i really like the read.

The Joker · **Joined:** Aug 2008 **Posts:** 36 **Location:** In Chaos

Priam,

if I'm not mistaken you are Dutch.

Try this link.

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

I'm only familiar with it from the movie, hmmmmm... about dinosaurs and have done some research - thought I'd list my search results because it is a fascinating subject. Having 5k+ results is better than one Wiki article.

Science has utilized Chaos Theory for weather prediction. It wasn't even called "Science" when I was a student.

Priam · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:19 pm

The Joker wrote:

Priam,

if I'm not mistaken you are Dutch.

Try this link.

Thanks, had not tried that one yet.

Ans Grandpa thanks for your search paremiters, they work better then mine.

I love to read this sort of stuff while i'm at work.

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

Check out the origin of what is known as "The Butterfly Effect"
It goes back to 1960 when Edward Lorenz took a shortcut with a computer model.
The word "Chaos" is derived from Greek Philosophers when they tried to describe the universe before matter. Interesting stuff.

Feel free to quote points of interest you stumble upon. I'll be reading more as we go.

I find this one enjoyable: One of Thousands

Excerpt wrote:

“... if every human being who ever lived had devoted his or her entire life to attempting to make sharpened pencils stand on end, it would be highly unlikely that even one pencil would have stood up for six seconds. Of course, you may have somewhat better luck if the points of your pencils become slightly worn.” (Lorenz,
The Essence of Chaos, 22)

In theory this pencil could remain vertical forever, if it was positioned in equilibrium, but
we are far from being able to determine the difference between a pencil that is truly vertical
and one that is slightly tilted. Lorenz adds that the mathematical chance for us to pick the
exact vertical state among infinitely many vertical near states is zero, and even if unstable
equilibrium was achieved in the real world, something would soon disturb it. But Lorenz says
that chaotic systems may possess states of equilibrium that are unstable. Certainly we can see
how unstable equilibrium and sensitive dependence are similar in the regard they involve the
‘amplification of initially small differences.’

Priam · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:39 pm

Grandpa wrote:

Check out the origin of what is known as "The Butterfly Effect"
It goes back to 1960 when Edward Lorenz took a shortcut with a computer model.
The word "Chaos" is derived from Greek Philosophers when they tried to describe the universe before matter. Interesting stuff.

Feel free to quote points of interest you stumble upon. I'll be reading more as we go.

Most interesting about chaos in greek mythology, is that it's mostly described as if it were a living thing. Sometimes female, usually without sexe.

Kinda cool, that is.

The Joker · **Joined:** Aug 2008 **Posts:** 36 **Location:** In Chaos

This quote is also interesting:

Quote:

What happens when the clock runs down? (Chaos Theory)

Friedrich Nietzsche, one of the first philosophers to completely reject modernity, understood the end of this pursuit was nihilism. The quest for a perfect system of knowledge would collapse on itself. In his words: "There are no facts, only interpretations." Nothing we can place our faith in, except maybe the creation of our pursuit. But this creation is a beast. Like Frankenstein’s monster, it will and has turned against us.

The best example of how our science turned against us would be the atomic bomb. The atomic bomb was the ironic last "tick-tock" of our modern dreams for a well ordered utopian society. By the beginning of the Cold War, this hope disintegrated into entropy and chaos. We lived in fear of our own science. We developed the ability to destroy ourselves on mass scale with atomic weapons. Our technology and knowledge made us less human, not more so. The clock ran down. And our trust in science as an unquestioned authority went with it.

With the postmodern condition, people are skeptical of absolute knowledge to truly solve the world’s ills. In this condition, the orderly God is not conceivable or receivable. There is simply too much out there. Descartes’ mechanical metaphor does not comfort us. As Isaiah 59:14 states, "Truth has stumbled in the streets." Now truths are seen as something that can only be socially constructed and locally relevant. Universals are observed with skepticism and indignation. There is only chaos, no order.

The Batman · **Joined:** Aug 2008 **Posts:** 30 **Location:** Bat Cave

The Joker wrote:

This quote is also interesting:

Quote:

What happens when the clock runs down? (Chaos Theory)

Friedrich Nietzsche, one of the first philosophers to completely reject modernity, understood the end of this pursuit was nihilism. The quest for a perfect system of knowledge would collapse on itself. In his words: "There are no facts, only interpretations." Nothing we can place our faith in, except maybe the creation of our pursuit. But this creation is a beast. Like Frankenstein’s monster, it will and has turned against us.

The best example of how our science turned against us would be the atomic bomb. The atomic bomb was the ironic last "tick-tock" of our modern dreams for a well ordered utopian society. By the beginning of the Cold War, this hope disintegrated into entropy and chaos. We lived in fear of our own science. We developed the ability to destroy ourselves on mass scale with atomic weapons. Our technology and knowledge made us less human, not more so. The clock ran down. And our trust in science as an unquestioned authority went with it.

With the postmodern condition, people are skeptical of absolute knowledge to truly solve the world’s ills. In this condition, the orderly God is not conceivable or receivable. There is simply too much out there. Descartes’ mechanical metaphor does not comfort us. As Isaiah 59:14 states, "Truth has stumbled in the streets." Now truths are seen as something that can only be socially constructed and locally relevant. Universals are observed with skepticism and indignation. There is only chaos, no order.

Chaos comes only when your here.

whiteraven · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 561 **Location:** dasfsss

chaostheorie will never be discoverd

why? if you discover it it aint chaos anymore,, so that will make there is no theorie at all

like railway,, they seem to hit eachother in a distance but they never hit eachother,,
why are u peeps seaching for something what never will be found,,

i would rather search for things what can be discoverd,,

why is time running slower in space, after that,, u can ask yourself, what is time,, (they dont even know yet

)

The Mobius · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 126 **Location:**

Am I the only one who noticed we now have a Batman and a Joker?

Ooh ooh! I call dibbs on two-face!!!! :roll:

Innovacious · **Joined:** Sep 2006 **Posts:** 2446 **Location:**

whiteraven wrote:

chaostheorie will never be discoverd

why? if you discover it it aint chaos anymore,, so that will make there is no theorie at all

like railway,, they seem to hit eachother in a distance but they never hit eachother,,
why are u peeps seaching for something what never will be found,,

i would rather search for things what can be discoverd,,

why is time running slower in space, after that,, u can ask yourself, what is time,, (they dont even know yet

)

youwhowhat?

whiteraven · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 561 **Location:** dasfsss

Innovacious wrote:

whiteraven wrote:

chaostheorie will never be discoverd

why? if you discover it it aint chaos anymore,, so that will make there is no theorie at all

like railway,, they seem to hit eachother in a distance but they never hit eachother,,
why are u peeps seaching for something what never will be found,,

i would rather search for things what can be discoverd,,

why is time running slower in space, after that,, u can ask yourself, what is time,, (they dont even know yet

)

youwhowhat?

youwhowhat2?

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

Don't fly too close to the sun, Icarus, you moron, do not fly too close to the sun; your wings will melt.

I wish that I had Jesse's chat. Where can I find a chat like that?
____________________________________
If the butterfly effect suggests that the flapping of the wings of a butterfly in South America could be the cause of a tornado in Texas, what about the flapping of larger wings like birds? What about cows burping methane and Global Warming? If a tornado can be caused by such a minor action (it can't) why doesn't the heat cycle from the equator to the northern and southern poles rip the world apart. Are there limiting factors other than Hadley Cells?

Recently on a Sci-Fi movie I heard a discussion about time travel and divergent multiverses. They stated that the air displacement upon arrival in another timeline would be enough to set all things into a different order and consequently the bet our time traveler made on the Denver Bronco's would not necessarily win. I'm a big Seahawks fan so I turn my house fans on during the season because I want them to win.

Much of these discussions to me are just flappings in the wind. I do like the math though. Wish we could keep our imaginations out of it.

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:42 pm

whats the point of this topic. Are we just citing quotes. Theres no real discussion going on which is a shame because it is a very interesting topic. I'll come back when this picks up.

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

Greetings, XemnasXD

I think you already know that I put my quotes in quotes. The rest of the junk I post is from the fevered place I call my mind. You're very welcome to contribute and I agree with your sentiment. Still learning here, so I try not to pose as 'expert'. Currently watching PI (the movie) on YouTube - fairly on topic if you broaden 'chaos' to philosophy.

~Granps

The Joker · **Joined:** Aug 2008 **Posts:** 36 **Location:** In Chaos

whiteraven wrote:

chaostheorie will never be discoverd

why? if you discover it it aint chaos anymore,, so that will make there is no theorie at all

like railway,, they seem to hit eachother in a distance but they never hit eachother,,
why are u peeps seaching for something what never will be found,,

i would rather search for things what can be discoverd,,

why is time running slower in space, after that,, u can ask yourself, what is time,, (they dont even know yet

)

Hehe, well that's what the whole theory is about.

Something that looks chaotic turns out to be systematical.

XemnasXD wrote:

whats the point of this topic. Are we just citing quotes. Theres no real discussion going on which is a shame because it is a very interesting topic. I'll come back when this picks up.

I am glad that you don't find this a fail anymore. We are doing some research, so that when we start a discussion, people can actually discuss.

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377...

The Golden Ratio can be seen (almost).
Compare the ratio of any term in the Fibonacci Sequence to the one before it.
As you go further toward the right the "resolution" improves.

1+SqRt[5]

2
... Still watching PI (the movie) on YouTube (part 3 now).

The Joker · **Joined:** Aug 2008 **Posts:** 36 **Location:** In Chaos

Grandpa wrote:

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377...

The Golden Ratio can be seen (almost).

1+SqRt[5]

2

but the zero...

0+0 = 0

Hehe I am sorry if I look stupid, but I'm not fimilar with this.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

The Joker wrote:

Grandpa wrote:

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377...

The Golden Ratio can be seen (almost).

1+SqRt[5]

2

but the zero...

0+0 = 0

Hehe I am sorry if I look stupid, but I'm not fimilar with this.

It starts with 0 and 1, from there it moves forward. Adding each one in sequence,
0+1 = 1
1+1 = 2
2+1 = 3
3+2 = 5
5+3 = 8
etc.
I like chaos theory.

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

The Joker wrote:

Grandpa wrote:

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377...

The Golden Ratio can be seen (almost).

1+SqRt[5]

2

but the zero...

0+0 = 0

Hehe I am sorry if I look stupid, but I'm not fimilar with this.

lol - that's okay, here I am watching a movie about Jewish Mysticism and Numerology and doing website lookups for the math - trying to figure out the dilemma. Stupid? Absurd? The only 'stupid' or 'absurd' thought is my belief that i can somehow understand.

There is an overwhelming amount of data here. The concept that our universe can be represented mathematically is quite the broad assumption, yes?

OH, Greetings Barotix! Do you have clarification?

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

Grandpa wrote:

The Joker wrote:

Grandpa wrote:

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377...

The Golden Ratio can be seen (almost).

1+SqRt[5]

2

but the zero...

0+0 = 0

Hehe I am sorry if I look stupid, but I'm not fimilar with this.

lol - that's okay, here I am watching a movie about Jewish Mysticism and Numerology and doing website lookups for the math - trying to figure out the dilemma. Stupid? Absurd? The only 'stupid' or 'absurd' thought is my belief that i can somehow understand.

There is an overwhelming amount of data here. The concept that our universe can be represented mathematically is quite the broad assumption, yes?

They say math is everything.

Doron · **Posted:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:09 pm

why are those two clowns still here? (okay, it's actually one, and the other is some underwear-over-pants-freak but still)

The Joker · **Joined:** Aug 2008 **Posts:** 36 **Location:** In Chaos

Icealya wrote:

why are those two clowns still here? (okay, it's actually one, and the other is some underwear-over-pants-freak but still)

I have not been here for a long time.

Yet, already I know that none of your posts are contributing.

Jstar1 · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 4757 **Location:**

The Joker wrote:

Icealya wrote:

why are those two clowns still here? (okay, it's actually one, and the other is some underwear-over-pants-freak but still)

I have not been here for a long time.

Yet, already I know that none of your posts are contributing.

well no one here is being entertained by the joint appearence of batman and joker.

Burningwolf · **Joined:** Jun 2007 **Posts:** 2583 **Location:** :|

quit going into the batman, joker thing
let them discuss
i want to learn something new

Saberdude · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:32 am

Burningwolf wrote:

quit going into the batman, joker thing
let them discuss
i want to learn something new

Theres a reason why they made books >_>

/Pi · **Joined:** May 2007 **Posts:** 4592 **Location:**

Let me get this straight: Chaos Theory is deterministic as well as random?

I'm lost. T.T

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