After discussing and learning about the Chaos Theory (thank you Grandpa), I now present to you the Theory of Relativity.
This is the Special Relativity Theory. I actually had to study this one for school, and no word is lied when I say to you that this theory is one of the most interesting I've ever read and/or studied.
For those that don't know anything or know a little about this subject:
Spoiler!
''Special relativity is a fundamental physics theory about space and time that was developed by Albert Einstein in 1905[1] as a modification of Newtonian physics (see History of special relativity for a detailed account and the contributions of Hendrik Lorentz and Henri Poincaré). It was created to deal with some pressing theoretical and experimental issues in the physics of the time involving light and electrodynamics. The predictions of special relativity correspond closely to those of Newtonian physics at speeds which are low in comparison to that of light, but diverge rapidly for speeds which are a significant fraction of the speed of light. Special relativity has been experimentally tested on numerous occasions since its inception, and its predictions have been verified by those tests.
Einstein postulated that the speed of light is the same for all observers, irrespective of their motion relative to the light source. This was in total contradiction to classical mechanics, which had been accepted for centuries. Einstein's approach was based on thought experiments and calculations. In 1908, Hermann Minkowski reformulated the theory based on different postulates of a more geometrical nature.[2] His approach depended on the existence of certain inter-relations between space and time, which were considered completely separate in classical physics. This reformulation set the stage for further developments of physics.
Special relativity makes numerous predictions which are incompatible with Newtonian physics (and everyday intuition). The first such prediction described by Einstein is called the relativity of simultaneity, under which observers who are in motion with respect to each other may disagree on whether two events occurred at the same time or one occurred before the other. The other major predictions of special relativity are time dilation (under which a moving clock ticks more slowly than when it is at rest with respect to the observer), length contraction (under which a moving rod may be found to be shorter than when it is at rest with respect to the observer), and the equivalence of mass and energy (written as E=mc2). Special relativity predicts a non-linear velocity addition formula which prevents speeds greater than that of light from being observed. Special relativity also explains why Maxwell's equations of electromagnetism are correct in any frame of reference, and how electric field and magnetic field are two aspects of the same thing.
Special relativity has been tested in many ways, and so far has been proved to be far more accurate than Newtonian mechanics. The most famous of these tests is the Michelson-Morley experiment, the failure of which was one of the things which motivated the creation of special relativity. Other significant tests are the Fizeau experiment (which was first done decades before special relativity was proposed), the detection of the transverse Doppler effect, and the Haefele-Keating experiment. Today, scientists are so comfortable with the idea that the speed of light is always the same that the meter is now defined as being the distance traveled by light in 1/299,792,458th of a second. This means that the speed of light is now defined as being 299,792,458 m/s.''
For those that know more about this subject:
Spoiler!
''Special relativity (SR) (also known as the special theory of relativity or STR) is the physical theory of measurement in inertial frames of reference proposed in 1905 by Albert Einstein (after considerable contributions of Hendrik Lorentz and Henri Poincaré) in the paper "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies".[1] It generalizes Galileo's principle of relativity – that all uniform motion is relative, and that there is no absolute and well-defined state of rest (no privileged reference frames) – from mechanics to all the laws of physics, including both the laws of mechanics and of electrodynamics, whatever they may be. In addition, special relativity incorporates the principle that the speed of light is the same for all inertial observers regardless of the state of motion of the source.[2]
This theory has a wide range of consequences which have been experimentally verified.[3] Special relativity overthrows Newtonian notions of absolute space and time by stating that time and space are perceived differently by observers in different states of motion. It yields the equivalence of matter and energy, as expressed in the mass-energy equivalence formula E = mc2, where c is the speed of light in a vacuum. The predictions of special relativity agree well with Newtonian mechanics in their common realm of applicability, specifically in experiments in which all velocities are small compared to the speed of light.
The theory is termed "special" because it applies the principle of relativity only to inertial frames. Einstein developed general relativity to apply the principle generally, that is, to any frame, and that theory includes the effects of gravity. Strictly, special relativity cannot be applied in accelerating frames or in gravitational fields.
Special relativity reveals that c is not just the velocity of a certain phenomenon, namely the propagation of electromagnetic radiation (light)—but rather a fundamental feature of the way space and time are unified as spacetime. A consequence of this is that it is impossible for any particle that has mass to be accelerated to the speed of light.''
According to this theory you could travel 40 years in space, then come back to earth and see the world as it is 80,000 years after you left.
/Discuss
* And please try to keep this thread flame free. If you don't like me and/or don't like this thread, I friendly ask you to leave.* Thanks, The Joker
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Last edited by The Joker on Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
I'm sorry to interfere like this , its 2 am and I'm tired ... I started reading and Italic text killed me... Sorry I'll read it tommorow ... But it would be nice if you removed Italic ... I just turned it off when I started to read.
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I just finished reading The Universe in a Nutshell by Stephen Hawking.
In highschool I was lazy, but I had a good mouth and way with words - it landed me a spot in the social sciences/humanities side of studies and I never took any science courses beyond what was required by the ministry. My program requires me to take a couple biology-like courses for my degree, and i've been poking around in other fields of science out of interest.
I must say that i'm in absolute love with physics, and I regret not working harder and becoming a theoretical physicist.
When I was younger, and willing to work hard, my favorite subject was math. I should of stuck to that.
One of the most interesting theories deriving from Special Relativity, in my opinion, is the Twin Paradox. It states that if one of the twins were to go into space and accelerate to a speed closer to c (the speed of light), upon return he would have aged less than the other.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the twin doing the traveling be the one to appear older, if not in age then at least in appearance? I mean if you were to merge this with biology, then you bring into account the telomeres, which are a region of DNA at the end of a chromosome. It is the deterioration of these telomeres that cause the process of aging. One thing that leads to their deterioration is the collisions against cosmic rays which continually pass through our bodies.
So, taking this into account, wouldn't a person traveling at such immense speeds have an increased amount of cosmic rays passing through their bodies, thus accelerating the deterioration of telomeres, which in turn would cause them to age that much faster?
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Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9965 Location: västkustskt
nitrofreez wrote:
One of the most interesting theories deriving from Special Relativity, in my opinion, is the Twin Paradox. It states that if one of the twins were to go into space and accelerate to a speed closer to c (the speed of light), upon return he would have aged less than the other.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the twin doing the traveling be the one to appear older, if not in age then at least in appearance? I mean if you were to merge this with biology, then you bring into account the telomeres, which are a region of DNA at the end of a chromosome. It is the deterioration of these telomeres that cause the process of aging. One thing that leads to their deterioration is the collisions against cosmic rays which continually pass through our bodies.
So, taking this into account, wouldn't a person traveling at such immense speeds have an increased amount of cosmic rays passing through their bodies, thus accelerating the deterioration of telomeres, which in turn would cause them to age that much faster?
The aging in the theory is there because of time's relativity, and sensitivity to speed. He comes back younger because at the speed he was travelling. The deterioration of DNA is not true aging, it's artificial in the sense that it has been altered by unnatural means. Coming back younger because of time's sensitivity is not artificial, because the actual amount of time passed is less.
So, the twin coming back from space would be younger. His DNA might be altered, and his physiology changed, but he still has been around for less time then his twin on earth.
I heard the Relativity theory explained in a really simple way before, but I can't remember where I heard it from. It stated that all objects move through the 4th dimensional space-time at the speed of light when motionless. When you stand completely still you are moving at that constant rate through time.
Whenever you move, as in walking, driving a car, or orbiting the Earth, you convert your speed through time into speed through physical space; in essence, it is a trade-off. Whenever you move, you take a bit of your motion through time and place it into motion through space, so time passes a little bit slower for you. It happens with GPS satellites, whose measurements are thrown completely out of whack by relativistic forces while speeding around the Earth and therefore need to be constantly adjusted to keep up with the changes.
If a human approaches light speed, everything not traveling at the same rate would speed up, so you come back after what seems like 40 years of travel to you, but 80,000 passed for everybody else like Joker said. But the human would still die eventually, obviously. He/she could live eighty years on the light-speed ship and die of old age while the outside world zips by unnoticed. So time doesn't mean much, huh?
I read the Ender's Game trilogy and thought about how they kept people alive on lightspeed ships. Really interesting stuff.
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i read a sci fi book by stephen baxter called Ring a couple of weeks ago. the theory of relativity was practiced in that book. the spaceship travelled close to the speed of light for 1000 yrs, and 10 million years passed for the rest of the universe.
if the world would turn clockwise (or counter clockwise,, opposite of what its doing now xD) howcome time would go the opposite direction to?? (that is what my teacher said to me)
and
well if in outerspace time runs slower,, will digging into the earth make time go faster? (that would be the opposite....)
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well if in outerspace time runs slower,, will digging into the earth make time go faster? (that would be the opposite....)
no you won't. It's not the higher you go, the slower time goes. It depends on your speed. The fact time goes slower in space is because we can reach higher speeds in space, that's because space is vacuum.
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Wait, wait, here, i dont Farking care about 40 years in space = 80k years in earth. 1 year is 1 year unless u dont compare the time with the same reference: the Sun. Your body may lives slower or your clock is broken and doesnt work properly.
(I heard that)There are also ppl who sleep for 50-60 after got an accident. When they wake up, they are not older, it's just like 1 night of sleeping for them. Call that also a time machine, and it's the opposite of high speed.
Chinese myth also tell that there was a monkey king which transform into a rock and sleep for trousands years.
Btw, there is a vietnamese prophet who could predict things both in future and in past. It means that we exist in different dimention of time and space. A ghost that i have spoken to through the Ouija board can predict the future too.
Without Relativity, probable fictions such as Big Bang cosmology and "black holes" can't exist - if there is no space-time, only time and space, then there is no possibility of expanding space and time from a singularity at the "beginning of time".
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9965 Location: västkustskt
NuclearSilo wrote:
Wait, wait, here, i dont Farking care about 40 years in space = 80k years in earth. 1 year is 1 year unless u dont compare the time with the same reference: the Sun. Your body may lives slower or your clock is broken and doesnt work properly.
No. And that's why a lot of people have problems grasping the concepts of relativity.
Without Relativity, probable fictions such as Big Bang cosmology and "black holes" can't exist - if there is no space-time, only time and space, then there is no possibility of expanding space and time from a singularity at the "beginning of time".
Strange world we live in, isn't it?
damnit,,
2 options
first: einstein is right but who made the world? god? well damn,, im going to prey every day from now on :O
second: einstein isnt right and time and space stuff is bullshit,,
well i can make time running faster just do something you like and time flows xD and time can run slower,, when ur at work
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The idea of absolute right or wrong is the thing. We'd like to live in a world where we can understand things in absolute terms and right is right and wrong is wrong. Fact is, we don't.
Consider early Flat Earth. At the time, it was 'right' to think so. It was so obvious - just look around. Then somebody noticed the length of the shadow cast from a stick varied depending on where it was measured - even if it was the same time of the day. So it was reasoned the the earth was a perfect sphere. Telescopes weren't that good but it seemed obvious - just look at the moon and the sun - spheres, right?
Then men started looking at Saturn and Jupiter and noticed they were fatter at their center and elliptical in shape. Turns out that the earth is not a perfect sphere. There were thousands of years where it was 'right' to think that the heavens were formed of various spheres but then came studies about distance and comets. A new 'right' was being determined.
When I call something a 'probable fiction' it isn't to say that the thought is untrue, only to say that our concepts of absolute right or wrong are. It's a matter of degree. Perhaps it could be said that relative to our knowledge at this time it is more right than prior theories.
Without Relativity, probable fictions such as Big Bang cosmology and "black holes" can't exist - if there is no space-time, only time and space, then there is no possibility of expanding space and time from a singularity at the "beginning of time".
Strange world we live in, isn't it?
damnit,,
2 options
first: einstein is right but who made the world? god? well damn,, im going to prey every day from now on :O
second: einstein isnt right and time and space stuff is bullshit,,
well i can make time running faster just do something you like and time flows xD and time can run slower,, when ur at work
It was tested many tmes. The results were always positive i believe.
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that forum needs an offtopic section where i can post to rake up my postcounts so i can look intelligent 
just do something you like and time flows xD and time can run slower,, when ur at work