Do you guys believe in god?

Knight_Ange1 · **Joined:** Mar 2008 **Posts:** 347 **Location:**

TOloseGT wrote:

what's wrong wit saying god created all living things by way of evolution?

That's a good idea. There ya go, buddy. At least someone has a right idea. +1 :love:

Bcuz I do think there's a god, But he didn't make an Adam and a Eve person right off hand.

/Pi · **Joined:** May 2007 **Posts:** 4592 **Location:**

TOloseGT wrote:

what's wrong wit saying god created all living things by way of evolution?

Evolution can already work without a guided hand. Why add one?

TOloseGT · **Joined:** Sep 2006 **Posts:** 7129 **Location:**

no, i'm saying god started the chain of evolution, then god let it go on its own. he's just a creator, not a mentor. who knows, he was prolly a martian that seeded earth =]

/Pi · **Joined:** May 2007 **Posts:** 4592 **Location:**

In the context outside naturalism, that is a good solution between the conflict of creationism and evolution. However, within the context of naturalism, these words come up: empirical evidence.

Let us also not forget that the formation of self-replicating machines (that can start evolution) can be explained by hypotheses that are currently being tested and studied. As far as I know, none of them are conclusive yet but they provide better explanations than "God did it".

strangelove · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 1255 **Location:** no

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OT: no

Grandpa · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 867 **Location:**

Prophet Izaach wrote:

In the context outside naturalism, that is a good solution between the conflict of creationism and evolution. However, within the context of naturalism, these words come up: empirical evidence.

Let us also not forget that the formation of self-replicating machines (that can start evolution) can be explained by hypotheses that are currently being tested and studied. As far as I know, none of them are conclusive yet but they provide better explanations than "God did it".

Greetings Prophet Izaach,
Your hope that naturalism can provide better explanations than "God did it" is only possible if one is highly selective of the evidence viewed.

Do you have a link to empirical evidence (proof, not involving theory) showing how cross species evolution happened? Philosophical Naturalism can be defined as "there ain't no god, no-way, no-shape, no-how" so any teleological, design based, anthropomorphic-quasi-natural explanations would (naturally) be prohibited.

Terms like "empirical evidence" are certainly easy to bandy about, anyone can claim possession of such things but... if I were to allege that creationists had discovered empirical evidence of the existence of God you could reasonably reply "YouTube or it didn't happen." If you choose to reply to my challenge kindly provide any empirical evidence that can withstand the rigorous examination you would bring to bear.

~Granps

Stress · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:14 pm

Fug_Dup wrote:

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OT: no

That video is completely irrelevant.
Why?
The people he was talking to appeared not to know how to talk about their faith. Look, for example, at the one in the discussion about Santa Claus.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

Blurred you don't understand evolution stop listening to people that just argue against a straw man version of evolution. Most people like you go; "Oh, evolution is just a theory." Well then "Mr. just a theory." Is gravity real? Is Magnetism real? Does the Earth go around the Sun? Is the Earth spherical?

Science != Religion. Stop thinking of Science as a religion.

izmeister · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 1138 **Location:** Yes

Can any science explain the floating rock in Jerusalem? (Its not at the aqsa mosque)

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

izmeister wrote:

Can any science explain the floating rock in Jerusalem? (Its not at the aqsa mosque)

What floating rock?
http://www.skywise711.com/Skeptic/Float ... ating.html

??
If that link isn't it, I'm sure whatever floating rock you speak has been proven to be an optical illusion.

izmeister · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 1138 **Location:** Yes

And how did Muhammad know about the sperm, the egg and the zygote?
[75:37] Was he (man) not a drop of semen emitted? Then he did become something leech-like which clings...
[23:14]...We made the drop into an leech-like structure, and then We changed the leech-like structure into a chewed-like substance, then We changed the chewed-like substance into bones, skeleton, then We clothed the flesh with muscles, then We caused him to grow and come into being as another creation.

Can someone tell me how anyone would know that sperm looked like a leech-like structure 1600 years ago?

Barotix wrote:

izmeister wrote:

Can any science explain the floating rock in Jerusalem? (Its not at the aqsa mosque)

What floating rock?
http://www.skywise711.com/Skeptic/Float ... ating.html

??
If that link isn't it, I'm sure whatever floating rock you speak has been proven to be an optical illusion.

Thats not it. Its at masjid near the dome of the rock, not at the dome.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

izmeister wrote:

And how did Muhammad know about the sperm, the egg and the zygote?
[75:37] Was he (man) not a drop of semen emitted? Then he did become something leech-like which clings...
[23:14]...We made the drop into an leech-like structure, and then We changed the leech-like structure into a chewed-like substance, then We changed the chewed-like substance into bones, skeleton, then We clothed the flesh with muscles, then We caused him to grow and come into being as another creation.

Can someone tell me how anyone would know that sperm looked like a leech-like structure 1600 years ago?

Muslims were very Scientific back then. Know your history before you go off quoting passages from the Kuran. The resurgence of Extremism in the Middle East stifled Islamic Science to the point of extinction. The middle east was very civilized after it was organized under Islam.

About the floating rock: It's most likely an optical illusion.

izmeister · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 1138 **Location:** Yes

Barotix wrote:

izmeister wrote:

And how did Muhammad know about the sperm, the egg and the zygote?
[75:37] Was he (man) not a drop of semen emitted? Then he did become something leech-like which clings...
[23:14]...We made the drop into an leech-like structure, and then We changed the leech-like structure into a chewed-like substance, then We changed the chewed-like substance into bones, skeleton, then We clothed the flesh with muscles, then We caused him to grow and come into being as another creation.

Can someone tell me how anyone would know that sperm looked like a leech-like structure 1600 years ago?

Muslims were very Scientific back then. Know your history before you go off quoting passages from the Kuran. The resurgence of Extremism in the Middle East stifled Islamic Science to the point of extinction. The middle east was very civilized after it was organized under Islam.

The earliest microscopes were made in the year 1595. Unless you are trying to tell me that you can see how sperm looks like with your bare eyes, you did not answer my question.

blackfalcon · **Joined:** Jun 2007 **Posts:** 1865 **Location:**

Prophet Izaach wrote:

In the context outside naturalism, that is a good solution between the conflict of creationism and evolution. However, within the context of naturalism, these words come up: empirical evidence.

Let us also not forget that the formation of self-replicating machines (that can start evolution) can be explained by hypotheses that are currently being tested and studied. As far as I know, none of them are conclusive yet but they provide better explanations than "God did it".

machines may be able to make evolution, but millions of years ago, there were no machines and billion dollar things that could create shit. we had a thread like this before, and basicaly it comes down to believing in god or science because the universe had to come from somewhere, just people have different ideas bout how it started

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

izmeister wrote:

Barotix wrote:

izmeister wrote:

And how did Muhammad know about the sperm, the egg and the zygote?
[75:37] Was he (man) not a drop of semen emitted? Then he did become something leech-like which clings...
[23:14]...We made the drop into an leech-like structure, and then We changed the leech-like structure into a chewed-like substance, then We changed the chewed-like substance into bones, skeleton, then We clothed the flesh with muscles, then We caused him to grow and come into being as another creation.

Can someone tell me how anyone would know that sperm looked like a leech-like structure 1600 years ago?

Muslims were very Scientific back then. Know your history before you go off quoting passages from the Kuran. The resurgence of Extremism in the Middle East stifled Islamic Science to the point of extinction. The middle east was very civilized after it was organized under Islam.

The earliest microscopes were made in the year 1000.

It's called Deductive reasoning.

@Falcon, you didn't understand his post.

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:59 pm

izmeister wrote:

Barotix wrote:

izmeister wrote:

And how did Muhammad know about the sperm, the egg and the zygote?
[75:37] Was he (man) not a drop of semen emitted? Then he did become something leech-like which clings...
[23:14]...We made the drop into an leech-like structure, and then We changed the leech-like structure into a chewed-like substance, then We changed the chewed-like substance into bones, skeleton, then We clothed the flesh with muscles, then We caused him to grow and come into being as another creation.

Can someone tell me how anyone would know that sperm looked like a leech-like structure 1600 years ago?

Muslims were very Scientific back then. Know your history before you go off quoting passages from the Kuran. The resurgence of Extremism in the Middle East stifled Islamic Science to the point of extinction. The middle east was very civilized after it was organized under Islam.

The earliest microscopes were made in the year 1595. Unless you are trying to tell me that you can see how sperm looks like with your bare eyes, you did not answer my question.

the fact of the matter is that Muhammad was not the first person to come up with this idea of sperm. Ideas of what it looked like had been around thousands of years before him kind of like folklore. If you look at most ancient cultures they often equate sperm to things like serpents and other slithering crawlies...Nothing in the Bible, the Tanakh, or the Qur'an is original content. Its all basically the stories, legends, beliefs, or reinterpretations of the cultures and stories that came b4 them....remember that.

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

izmeister wrote:

And how did Muhammad know about the sperm, the egg and the zygote?
[75:37] Was he (man) not a drop of semen emitted? Then he did become something leech-like which clings...
[23:14]...We made the drop into an leech-like structure, and then We changed the leech-like structure into a chewed-like substance, then We changed the chewed-like substance into bones, skeleton, then We clothed the flesh with muscles, then We caused him to grow and come into being as another creation.

Can someone tell me how anyone would know that sperm looked like a leech-like structure 1600 years ago?

They didn't. You don't have to know what sperm actually is, or looks like, to assume what it does. And in this case assume vaguely.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

Just in case:
It's called Deductive reasoning.

Every Civilization used it. Whenever my Christian friends try to convert people I like to remind them that their imaginary friend plagiarizes material.

izmeister · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 1138 **Location:** Yes

Barotix wrote:

izmeister wrote:

Barotix wrote:

Muslims were very Scientific back then. Know your history before you go off quoting passages from the Kuran. The resurgence of Extremism in the Middle East stifled Islamic Science to the point of extinction. The middle east was very civilized after it was organized under Islam.

The earliest microscopes were made in the year 1000.

It's called Deductive reasoning.

@Falcon, you didn't understand his post.

So I guess he was very lucky with his deductive reasoning.

Like how he said that the sun is a lamp while the moon reflects
[71:16]And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp.

And how muhammad said all living thing came from water (which even scientists believe)
[21:30] ...And We made every living thing from water...

And how muhammad talks about supernovas

VERY lucky Deductive reasoning.

Reise · **Joined:** May 2006 **Posts:** 6650 **Location:**

izmeister wrote:

VERY lucky Deductive reasoning.

Ugh.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

You can see supernovas that happened billions of years ago. Gazing upon the cosmos, one finds a mirror into the past. You must remember that none of Mohammed's ideas are original.

izmeister · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 1138 **Location:** Yes

Reise wrote:

izmeister wrote:

VERY lucky Deductive reasoning.

Ugh.

Elaborate plz

This must be a huge coinsidence too

Quote:

The miracle of the physical properties of Iron

Allah Almighty informs us , while teaching us, that Iron was actually descended from the sky and only came to form part of the Earth's make up after the spoken of descent, this is to say that it is a principal component of a meteorite class known as siderites and is a minor constituent of the other two meteorite classes as science today explains in the following link .

Los Alamos Laboratory's Periodic Table of the Elements

Also in the following link details of element click here for Iron properties

It is also a miracle that this verse is in chapter 57 which represents the atomic weight(not the avg atomic weight but a stable middle isotope). The verse which mentions the Iron is number 25 and the total number of verses of this chapter is 29 thus four(04) remaining verses to end this magnificent chapter.
Also the number of neutrons 30 - 04 = gives 26 which is the atomic number of iron and the number of its protons
Allah (SWT) says in the Holy Book The Quran :-

In The Name of Allah most Gracious most Merciful:
"we Verily sent our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and Balance, that mankind may observe right measure; and He revealed(descended) iron, wherein is mighty power and many uses for mankind,, and that Allah may know who helpth Him and His messengers, though unseen. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty."

Verily Allah Speaks the Truth.

From The holy Quran Chapter 57 Surat Al Hadeed (The Iron) verse 25

Isotopes
Isotope Half Life
Fe-52 8.3 hours
Fe-54 Stable
Fe-55 2.7 years
Fe-56 Stable
Fe-57 Stable
Fe-58 Stable
Fe-59 54.5 days
Fe-60 1500000.0 years

Quote:

the fact of the matter is that Muhammad was not the first person to come up with this idea of sperm. Ideas of what it looked like had been around thousands of years before him kind of like folklore. If you look at most ancient cultures they often equate sperm to things like serpents and other slithering crawlies...Nothing in the Bible, the Tanakh, or the Qur'an is original content. Its all basically the stories, legends, beliefs, or reinterpretations of the cultures and stories that came b4 them....remember that.

Sources of the folklorse of sperm plz :shock:

Barotix wrote:

You can see supernovas that happened billions of years ago. Gazing upon the cosmos, one finds a mirror into the past. You must remember that none of Mohammed's ideas are original.

When I look through my telescope I do not see any Supernovas.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

It isn't a coincidence when you base all of your holy writings on the ramblings of Greek Philosophers then go around and say your imaginary friend revealed it to you.

The Greeks existed before Mohamed:
http://www.medhunters.com/articles/hist ... ption.html

Did your imaginary friend reveal that to the Greeks too? :roll:

izmeister · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 1138 **Location:** Yes

Barotix wrote:

It isn't a coincidence when you base all of your holy writings on the ramblings of Greek Philosophers then go around and say your imaginary friend revealed it to you.

The Greeks existed before Mohamed:
http://www.medhunters.com/articles/hist ... ption.html

Did your imaginary friend reveal that to the Greeks too? :roll:

What did Greek philosophers have anything to do with the coincidence I am talking about?

And I see nothing about the structure of sperm in that...

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

izmeister wrote:

Barotix wrote:

It isn't a coincidence when you base all of your holy writings on the ramblings of Greek Philosophers then go around and say your imaginary friend revealed it to you.

What did Greek philosophers have anything to do with the coincidence I am talking about?

Your prophet attributes findings Greeks made before his time to a supernatural being. There were other civilizations that were more advanced than muslims at the time of your prophet that discovered these things through Deductive Reasoning. All Mohamed did was compile all these findings and said god made it possible. It isn't hard to say a god made something possible.

Quote:

And I see nothing about the structure of sperm in that...

You are hopeless and oblivious.

izmeister · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 1138 **Location:** Yes

Barotix wrote:

izmeister wrote:

Barotix wrote:

It isn't a coincidence when you base all of your holy writings on the ramblings of Greek Philosophers then go around and say your imaginary friend revealed it to you.

What did Greek philosophers have anything to do with the coincidence I am talking about?

Your prophet attributes findings Greeks made before his time to a supernatural being. There were other civilizations that were more advanced than muslims at the time of your prophet that discovered these things through Deductive Reasoning. All Mohamed did was compile all these findings and said god made it possible. It isn't hard to say a god made something possible.

Whether you believe it or not you have to admit the part about iron is a huge coincidence.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

izmeister wrote:

Barotix wrote:

It isn't a coincidence when you base all of your holy writings on the ramblings of Greek Philosophers then go around and say your imaginary friend revealed it to you.

What did Greek philosophers have anything to do with the coincidence I am talking about?

Whether you believe it or not you have to admit the part about iron is a huge coincidence.

izmeister · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 1138 **Location:** Yes

Barotix wrote:

izmeister wrote:

Barotix wrote:

It isn't a coincidence when you base all of your holy writings on the ramblings of Greek Philosophers then go around and say your imaginary friend revealed it to you.

What did Greek philosophers have anything to do with the coincidence I am talking about?

Are you trying to tell me the Greeks knew about the isotopes in iron? source plz

And kindly show this hopeless and oblivious person where it talks about how sperm looks like a leech or serpent in the article you posted.

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/

I'm done. Those with faith just can't be moved.

izmeister · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 1138 **Location:** Yes

Barotix wrote:

http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/

I'm done. Those with faith just can't be moved.

So I guess I finally stumped the great Barotix :shock:

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