The Bordom Euros Bring to SRO

.curve · **Posted:** Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:50 am

BuDo wrote:

teammates are teammates for another important reason....and that is they disagree due to their individualities and experiences. You can sit there and spew garbage all you like but I ain't buying it. Your teammates aren't your exact copies. They have their own interpretation and threshold of whats boring or not. I'm sure you heard them tell you "No" before. And if they haven't yet you are in for a surprise..

Even when you all share the same goals of winning, there are different levels of expectations as to how and when the winning will come about..If it takes too long or is perceived to be pointless then some of them will abandon the battle. If not physically then mentally.

And yes, some nights they wont join you in a fort war...as matter of fact they wont even log in to help out not just because of priorities but because..wait for it...."it gets boring"....

That's the thing about the people I play with, we may disagree with something individually, but we will suck it up and do what's best for the group in order to win. If they do agree, they will speak up, and the team as a whole will make the decision on what to do with what that person has to say. One person does not lead the team, that's why it's called a team.

I don't get why you keep saying they'll abandon the fight. What kind of people are you playing with? My friends are a lot stronger in character and will stay in the fight until the end. I figured that that's how most people who want to win are. Consider looking at a new group of friends to play with if your current ones are just giving up left and right.

If we ever don't log in for fortress war, it's a synchronized agreement. One or two people don't just decide not to show up without telling people. Factor in that FW starts at 2-5AM for my friends and I, and we usually decide to sleep through it. Regardless of what we do, we let each other know beforehand.

Since you've decided to start the Venus lol thing, I'm going to use them as an example. How did they win over the server? By saying, "This fight against the bots is too long and too hard, let's give up." Lolno. Teamwork, dedication, and a will to win are what made Venus what it is.

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

Prophet Izaach wrote:

I have to agree with .curve. Group fights are much more fun than soloing - for me that is. It adds a whole new level of gameplay and player interactions. On top of that, what makes it more interesting is the uniqueness of each player in terms of personality. Every person in the group brings something unique other than their characters' classes, levels, gears. In these fights, they bring out social skills - communication, leadership, obedience, etc.

A higher degree of intelligence also comes into play:
"If I'm a cleric, who should I prioritize? Should the tank be my primary target to heal? If he dies and his buffs go down, we're doomed. Or should it be the wizards, warlocks, and nukers? If they die, what will be the consequences? Or should I just keep watch my own HP so I can survive wipeouts to ress them all? What about that Chinese in our group? Is his low pot delay enough to keep him alive? Am I the only cler-

Oh shit! That wizard is about to get ganked. Do I have enough time to cast bless spell and save him? Or should I just ready oblation in case the warrior doesn't screen him in time?"

Of course, this is not to say that solo PvPs do not demand any degree of thinking. You still need to know what skills to use at what moment, whether you're specialized like the Euros or self-dependent like the Chinese. The only thing that it lacks is the social aspect. However, that should not be counted as a downside. Not everyone wants to socialize all the time. There are times where you just want to fight alone and not be bothered to form a group and deal with people.

I've also noticed that it is in group fights that friendship and trust is formed the most often. I even know certain players who would only party with certain people. Since they've been working together in teams through PvE, they stick together in job wars, guilds wars, fortress wars. They know each others roles and needs. It's a self-perfected killing machine.

What are you talking about Prophet? This discussion isn't about group play vs 1V1. Its about how Euro defensive abilities bring about a boring fight in group duel mainly because of their insane buffs. 20 minutes can go by and not a single player on either team dies. Thats whats boring, and thats what this thread is about.

.curve · **Posted:** Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:09 am

BuDo wrote:

Prophet Izaach wrote:

I have to agree with .curve. Group fights are much more fun than soloing - for me that is. It adds a whole new level of gameplay and player interactions. On top of that, what makes it more interesting is the uniqueness of each player in terms of personality. Every person in the group brings something unique other than their characters' classes, levels, gears. In these fights, they bring out social skills - communication, leadership, obedience, etc.

A higher degree of intelligence also comes into play:
"If I'm a cleric, who should I prioritize? Should the tank be my primary target to heal? If he dies and his buffs go down, we're doomed. Or should it be the wizards, warlocks, and nukers? If they die, what will be the consequences? Or should I just keep watch my own HP so I can survive wipeouts to ress them all? What about that Chinese in our group? Is his low pot delay enough to keep him alive? Am I the only cler-

Oh shit! That wizard is about to get ganked. Do I have enough time to cast bless spell and save him? Or should I just ready oblation in case the warrior doesn't screen him in time?"

Of course, this is not to say that solo PvPs do not demand any degree of thinking. You still need to know what skills to use at what moment, whether you're specialized like the Euros or self-dependent like the Chinese. The only thing that it lacks is the social aspect. However, that should not be counted as a downside. Not everyone wants to socialize all the time. There are times where you just want to fight alone and not be bothered to form a group and deal with people.

I've also noticed that it is in group fights that friendship and trust is formed the most often. I even know certain players who would only party with certain people. Since they've been working together in teams through PvE, they stick together in job wars, guilds wars, fortress wars. They know each others roles and needs. It's a self-perfected killing machine.

What are you talking about Prophet? This discussion isn't about group play vs 1V1. Its about how Euro defensive abilities bring about a boring fight in group duel mainly because of their insane buffs. 20 minutes can go by and not a single player on either team dies. Thats whats boring, and thats what this thread is about.

Which, in retrospect, is actually discussing group play vs 1v1. Euros and their buffs are meant for a team. Alone, a Euro will never be as effective as it is when it's doing it's role in a party.

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

.curve wrote:

BuDo wrote:

teammates are teammates for another important reason....and that is they disagree due to their individualities and experiences. You can sit there and spew garbage all you like but I ain't buying it. Your teammates aren't your exact copies. They have their own interpretation and threshold of whats boring or not. I'm sure you heard them tell you "No" before. And if they haven't yet you are in for a surprise..

Even when you all share the same goals of winning, there are different levels of expectations as to how and when the winning will come about..If it takes too long or is perceived to be pointless then some of them will abandon the battle. If not physically then mentally.

And yes, some nights they wont join you in a fort war...as matter of fact they wont even log in to help out not just because of priorities but because..wait for it...."it gets boring"....

That's the thing about the people I play with, we may disagree with something individually, but we will suck it up and do what's best for the group in order to win. If they do agree, they will speak up, and the team as a whole will make the decision on what to do with what that person has to say. One person does not lead the team, that's why it's called a team.

I don't get why you keep saying they'll abandon the fight. What kind of people are you playing with? My friends are a lot stronger in character and will stay in the fight until the end. I figured that that's how most people who want to win are. Consider looking at a new group of friends to play with if your current ones are just giving up left and right.

If we ever don't log in for fortress war, it's a synchronized agreement. One or two people don't just decide not to show up without telling people. Factor in that FW starts at 2-5AM for my friends and I, and we usually decide to sleep through it. Regardless of what we do, we let each other know beforehand.

Since you've decided to start the Venus lol thing, I'm going to use them as an example. How did they win over the server? By saying, "This fight against the bots is too long and too hard, let's give up." Lolno. Teamwork, dedication, and a will to win are what made Venus what it is.

Seems you like being stuborn...The problem isn't you and your friends..its Joymax incompetence that will cause you're friends to toss in the towel.

It doesn't matter how well you think you know your friends or how well you wanna put your idea the fact is they are people just like any...and will get bored when ANYTHING in life starts to drag itself out with no end in sight.Thats a natural human behaviour. You yourself is just the same. I'm sure there were times when you've deduced that situation is pointless and or just boring and not worth the effort whether in game or outside of it.

You're just being stubborn. Like when you said you'd fight yarkan for an "hour". How about I up it a notch then. What if Yarkan could buff himself? and repot? and that hour starts to look indefinite? Then what?...let me guess....you'd still continue the fight right? continue the fight knowing Joymax messed up by allowing Yarkan those abilities. LOL..

.curve · **Posted:** Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:51 am

How are Euro's defense buffs an error by Joymax?

Your Yarkan scenario is completely irrelevant now. Adding "What If's" to the equation doesn't prove your point at all.

This whole dilemma is a question of character to be honest. Joymax gave Euros these defense buffs, you say they're too overpowered, I offer you a solution, and you are still arguing. Teamwork can solve the problem of defense buffs.

To be honest, you're the one being stubborn. People have agreed with me that all it takes is some teamwork to counter the defense buffs. Stop crying and get a good group of people together. Learn how each other plays, and how you all can be an effective party. Problem solved.

_Scarlett_ · **Joined:** Jan 2007 **Posts:** 1567 **Location:**

Team vs team = an endless fight if neither team knows what they're doing. Give a team the know how to do what, when, then that "endless" fight turns into another easy job. You can take down a warrior with a devil spirit, warrior fences, full screens (all 3), cleric defense buffs, AND bard tambours with know how. It's only an endless fight if you have no idea how to go about countering it.

The game was designed for team play, plain and simple.

As for the boredom thing, people have differing views on what's "boring." What bores you, will not always bore another.

.curve · **Posted:** Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:30 am

_Scarlett_ wrote:

Team vs team = an endless fight if neither team knows what they're doing. Give a team the know how to do what, when, then that "endless" fight turns into another easy job. You can take down a warrior with a devil spirit, warrior fences, full screens (all 3), cleric defense buffs, AND bard tambours with know how. It's only an endless fight if you have no idea how to go about countering it.

The game was designed for team play, plain and simple.

As for the boredom thing, people have differing views on what's "boring." What bores you, will not always bore another.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Thank you.

selenne · **Joined:** Jul 2008 **Posts:** 1176 **Location:**

warlocks + clerics do the job in group wars

Mousetrap · **Joined:** Mar 2008 **Posts:** 817 **Location:**

Immolation needs to be removed, Or if not removed at least given a cooldown of 2-3 minutes. That way you have to choose which character needs it the most, just like giving out warrior screens.
As the cap increases, so does HP. Immolations gives a 70% HP increase, along with 70% phy / mag absorption. How much hp will a warrior have at 100 cap?
How many clerics will have to overheal him for him to die? While he can run around giving all his buffs.. I'm a warrior, btw.

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

.curve wrote:

How are Euro's defense buffs an error by Joymax?

Your Yarkan scenario is completely irrelevant now. Adding "What If's" to the equation doesn't prove your point at all.

This whole dilemma is a question of character to be honest. Joymax gave Euros these defense buffs, you say they're too overpowered, I offer you a solution, and you are still arguing. Teamwork can solve the problem of defense buffs.

To be honest, you're the one being stubborn. People have agreed with me that all it takes is some teamwork to counter the defense buffs. Stop crying and get a good group of people together. Learn how each other plays, and how you all can be an effective party. Problem solved.

You must be joking about people agreeing with you..maybe a few... but for the most part I see here people discussing what should be removed or modified. This thread and many others like it.

Anyways you stick to your point and I'll stick to mines...No point in going further with this...I know what I've experienced and witnessed. Our perception on how soon a battle should be over just differs thats all.... Seems like you never heard the term "Stale mate" b4...Thanks to JM thats whats happening a lot with euro buffs.

.curve · **Posted:** Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:03 pm

BuDo wrote:

Seems like you never heard the term "Stale mate" b4...Thanks to JM thats whats happening a lot with euro buffs.

This the part I have a problem with. Thanks to JM what? For adding defense buffs? You have them too yourself. Like multiple people here have said, teamwork > defense buffs.

Nixie · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 1108 **Location:**

I was arguing in such thread long time ago, but I've come to a conclusion. If you think the other race or overpowered, stop playing your race and re-roll with the other. It's as simple as that. Nobody forces you to play either Chinese or European. NOBODY. So stop whining. As for the holly word, it's resistance will get decreased in 100 cap, so stop bitching around that. <.<

Barotix · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 9250 **Location:** Sand

@Shadow, I don't want balance. Group PvP is so heavily skewed in favor of Europeans that it's only fair that 1v1 belongs to Chinese instead of IMBA Paladins, War/Locks, Rogue/Clerics, Rogue/Locks. Europeans can have their Group Orgy.

Give me an Imba Force Imbue, and Ice/Force/Bicheon will dominate 1v1.

eaglehawk · **Joined:** Apr 2006 **Posts:** 230 **Location:**

Mousetrap wrote:

Immolation needs to be removed, Or if not removed at least given a cooldown of 2-3 minutes. That way you have to choose which character needs it the most, just like giving out warrior screens.
As the cap increases, so does HP. Immolations gives a 70% HP increase, along with 70% phy / mag absorption. How much hp will a warrior have at 100 cap?
How many clerics will have to overheal him for him to die? While he can run around giving all his buffs.. I'm a warrior, btw.

i agree.. immolation suxs, in job wars u see weak euros (wizards and rogues) sacrificing themselves just to receive immolation and then they can do still do full damage with their overheal and glut. so basically a chinese cant do jack to them but they can kill the chinese. with this longer 2-3 minute cooldown u wont see euros abusing this immolation+absolute damage crap, only way to deal with this is to have the other team fight the same way but of course i think any decent player would prefer watching paint dry and will go back to grinding. either increase the immolation cooldown time and/or decrease their absolute damage while in immolation/oblation

-.- · **Posted:** Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:57 pm

i think its fine :S

the problem with outside clerics... chinese could do that too but they were focused on 1vs1 and didnt bother getting force... the euros however learned teamwork...

it isnt exactly like chinese are weak, its everyone keeps playing it like 1,2,3 like a bot would

Shadowfox542 · **Joined:** Jul 2008 **Posts:** 914 **Location:**

Barotix wrote:

@Shadow, I don't want balance. Group PvP is so heavily skewed in favor of Europeans that it's only fair that 1v1 belongs to Chinese instead of IMBA Paladins, War/Locks, Rogue/Clerics, Rogue/Locks. Europeans can have their Group Orgy.

Give me an Imba Force Imbue, and Ice/Force/Bicheon will dominate 1v1.

I have a super biased opinion as I haven't played my chinese char for long at all since euros came out...but it's not THAT imbalanced is it?

I was typing an example, but then I realized that 8vs8 with 8 chinese vs 8 euros would be a lolfest. Yea, that would be kinda nice I suppose, but on Olympus 1v1 is so outrageously more common than group. However, that might make people forced to group...

Corrupt · **Joined:** Jan 2007 **Posts:** 548 **Location:**

Immolation is there for players to rebuff, because without them they're nothing. If JM somehow made a way for immolation to maybe last 10 or 15 seconds or make it so players can only buff and not attack would fix it.

It should be there so players get their buffs back up then it should cancel. Otherwise a regular res you'd just get spawn camped or res camped hardcore. The 5 second delay they added has made a slight difference but being able to do decent damage and absolute while having Immolation is plain overpowered and stupid.

Shadowfox542 · **Joined:** Jul 2008 **Posts:** 914 **Location:**

Corrupt wrote:

Immolation is there for players to rebuff, because without them they're nothing. If JM somehow made a way for immolation to maybe last 10 or 15 seconds or make it so players can only buff and not attack would fix it.

It should be there so players get their buffs back up then it should cancel. Otherwise a regular res you'd just get spawn camped or res camped hardcore. The 5 second delay they added has made a slight difference but being able to do decent damage and absolute while having Immolation is plain overpowered and stupid.

Yea, I was hunting today and out of suit resser with immolation kept ressing a rouge, who scorned me a lot.

strangelove · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 1255 **Location:** no

I think the current setup is fine. Either adapt to the new system or be prepared to fail. If the Euro expansion has taught me anything (especially playing Warlock builds) is that stats and gear become irrelevant if you can stay one step ahead of your opponent.

I also :love:

group fights.

selenne · **Joined:** Jul 2008 **Posts:** 1176 **Location:**

i do not think game's imbalanced. a chinese well played can be way more dangerous than euros, specially hybrids and force-based chars. about group wars, bleh, euro thing.

actually i think players r not buildin euros as joymax meant to. euros should be never able to solo, or pwn in 1v1.
the sp requirements r so high to force ppl to select better their skills and focus on roles they want to play, like ice wizards, light wizards, tank warriors, dmg dealing warriors etc, not a ultra 3 wep warrior + full cleric. or a full melee euro char, wich takes 1.3mil sp just to 90 cap. such builds were made to be "unmakable" at higher caps, like 110 or 120.

Glavie's Girl · **Joined:** Jun 2007 **Posts:** 1464 **Location:**

I wish they would add the islamic race. Sro is about triangular conflict, but we only have two corners of the triangle atm; euros and china.

Toshiharu · **Joined:** Feb 2008 **Posts:** 4222 **Location:** Nowhere

Glavie's Girl wrote:

I wish they would add the islamic race. Sro is about triangular conflict, but we only have two corners of the triangle atm; euros and china.

Uhh.. the triangular conflict is Traders, Hunters, and Thieves.

Glavie's Girl · **Joined:** Jun 2007 **Posts:** 1464 **Location:**

Toshiharu wrote:

Glavie's Girl wrote:

I wish they would add the islamic race. Sro is about triangular conflict, but we only have two corners of the triangle atm; euros and china.

Uhh.. the triangular conflict is Traders, Hunters, and Thieves.

Why cant it be both?

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:45 am

Glavie's Girl wrote:

Toshiharu wrote:

Glavie's Girl wrote:

I wish they would add the islamic race. Sro is about triangular conflict, but we only have two corners of the triangle atm; euros and china.

Uhh.. the triangular conflict is Traders, Hunters, and Thieves.

Why cant it be both?

coz race vs race is not a conflict, you usually see euro vs euro or euro +china vs china+euro fight...

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