Discussion on the validity of New GMs. From Krush's post.

_Dutchy_ · **Posted:** Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:50 am

NuclearSilo wrote:

Goseki wrote:

Yes, 99.9% of humans aren't exactly moral leaders. This kind of thought is for people old enough to see the world and realize it for what it is. We try, but rarely do we succeed. This is even more true of kids who don't have strong moral standards yet or are easily swayed.

Look at every major organized game/sport. People still cheat, steroids, fouls, etc. What reduces these is that rules are ENFORCED CONSTANTLY. You break a rule, you get punished. Doesn't mean people will stop, it just means it keeps it to a reduced level. People still use drugs, people still do illegal moves, but the difference is that they are punished, even forever barred from playing ever again once they get caught. Thus the majority of players in all games/sports know that unless the profits outweigh the risk, they won't cheat.

In SRO's case, the rules are listed, but never/rarely enforced. Hence, with a majority of kids playing that barely speak good english, they see no punishment. They want to win, so they do what they can.

Of course we need JM's action to fix it. But you also need everyone's action too. You can't just sit in a place and wait for magic to happen.

In real life sport, one person use drug/cheat, thousands or even billions of people complain. In sro, 0.01% of the total players complain? And you can't actually compare it with sports. In sport, when you win, you could gain thousands of dollars, glory, pride. In sro, I nothing else you could gain beside "haha, i pwn you noob". If you easily turned into bot just because lots of ppl say that to you then I'm sorry you should play different game. Botting is not a solution, it's a problem.

As I stated before, if JM make an anti-bot system, the first thing a botter do is lurking around hack forum to search for a crack for this system. It's just a matter of time a crack will be released. The fight will never end. If you want to fix the game, both side needs to see their responsibility. You can't just sit in a place and wait.

It's about awareness of the situation of the game. If kids and turks can learn about bot, then he can learn other things too. They just need someone to guide them. Since kids are also easy to believe, convincing them that botting is bad for the game is possible too. Assuming you are a botter, if you invite a friend to play silkroad, you should first not to guide him to bot site. That's the least thing you can do.

I don't know what country you are living in but it seems that you saw in everyone around full of bad and evil, willingly hurt everyone else whenever they can

I agree with you i think everybody is blaming Joymax for Silkroad being infested with bots but i don't think Joymax is not only one to blame the comunity is also to blame. and as far as the GM's concerned i don't really believe they will do anything unless silkroad will die and THEN i believe they will try to save there game because then they will lose money. but hey it doesn't stop me from being legit as i get the most pleasure of playing it this way

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

I've had these discussion with Silo a long time ago. The blame is 100% joymax. I know the players are breaking the rules but you can't act surprised when people are given the freedom to break the rules and do.

You don't open the gates to a prison and then post signs for the prisoners saying "DONT ESCAPE" and then when they start escaping you're partially blaming the prisoners for not following "The rules". You'd be a complete retard. Joymax owns the game...Joymax manages the game...The players don't own it or manage it.

In a group so large like SRO community there are people who will break the rules if given the opportunity. Its common sense to recognize this fact and it's also common sense to try and prevent them from doing so.

Goseki · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 3452 **Location:**

NuclearSilo wrote:

Goseki wrote:

Yes, 99.9% of humans aren't exactly moral leaders. This kind of thought is for people old enough to see the world and realize it for what it is. We try, but rarely do we succeed. This is even more true of kids who don't have strong moral standards yet or are easily swayed.

Look at every major organized game/sport. People still cheat, steroids, fouls, etc. What reduces these is that rules are ENFORCED CONSTANTLY. You break a rule, you get punished. Doesn't mean people will stop, it just means it keeps it to a reduced level. People still use drugs, people still do illegal moves, but the difference is that they are punished, even forever barred from playing ever again once they get caught. Thus the majority of players in all games/sports know that unless the profits outweigh the risk, they won't cheat.

In SRO's case, the rules are listed, but never/rarely enforced. Hence, with a majority of kids playing that barely speak good english, they see no punishment. They want to win, so they do what they can.

Of course we need JM's action to fix it. But you also need everyone's action too. You can't just sit in a place and wait for magic to happen.

In real life sport, one person use drug/cheat, thousands or even billions of people complain. In sro, 0.01% of the total players complain? And you can't actually compare it with sports. In sport, when you win, you could gain thousands of dollars, glory, pride. In sro, I nothing else you could gain beside "haha, i pwn you noob". If you easily turned into bot just because lots of ppl say that to you then I'm sorry you should play different game. Botting is not a solution, it's a problem.

As I stated before, if JM make an anti-bot system, the first thing a botter do is lurking around hack forum to search for a crack for this system. It's just a matter of time a crack will be released. The fight will never end. If you want to fix the game, both side needs to see their responsibility. You can't just sit in a place and wait.

It's about awareness of the situation of the game. If kids and turks can learn about bot, then he can learn other things too. They just need someone to guide them. Since kids are also easy to believe, convincing them that botting is bad for the game is possible too. Assuming you are a botter, if you invite a friend to play silkroad, you should first not to guide him to bot site. That's the least thing you can do.

I don't know what country you are living in but it seems that you saw in everyone around full of bad and evil, willingly hurt everyone else whenever they can. This is not just about cheating, but also about harming everyone else too. You gain advantage, widgets, add-on if there is no rule to stop it, i'm ok with it, but something like destroying someone's game-play, environment is worst. "You don't touch me, I won't touch you", that simple rule, what's hard to understand?

Nuclear, I know you've been around for awhile, and when you're not talking about random ghost stuff, your posts make sense.

It's true we need to stop it too, like Krush said, there are botters that are willing to give up their characters to start over legitly. We saw that in Venus.

But the thing is, we HAVE all tried. We said stop botting guys, no fun. etc etc. What happened. Time flows. People saw after a year, 2 years, 3 years, 4 years for me now, nothing has changed. JM still won't help us. People just start giving up and either quitting, or seeing as their friends are still playing but ff and capped, they want to play still so they join in. If you look at it, most things in SRO are really only fun once you have a chance at winning. FW isn't that great if you're lvl 50 i'll tell you that. It's flashy and crowded, but dull after being killed your 80th time in 10 mins. Same with jobbing. Really only best part is CTF, which is one of the things I liked.

Oh and I live in the US, but I got that view through history. Earth's history isn't exactly hugs and kisses. That's another discussion though. Feel free to start it in OTL.

Edit:

BuDo wrote:

I've had these discussion with Silo a long time ago. The blame is 100% joymax. I know the players are breaking the rules but you can't act surprised when people are given the freedom to break the rules and do.

You don't open the gates to a prison and then post signs for the prisoners saying "DONT ESCAPE" and then when they start escaping you're partially blaming the prisoners for not following "The rules". You'd be a complete retard. Joymax owns the game...Joymax manages the game...The players don't own it or manage it.

In a group so large like SRO community there are people who will break the rules if given the opportunity. Its common sense to recognize this fact and it's also common sense to try and prevent them from doing so.

+1

_Dutchy_ · **Posted:** Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:43 am

BuDo wrote:

I've had these discussion with Silo a long time ago. The blame is 100% joymax. I know the players are breaking the rules but you can't act surprised when people are given the freedom to break the rules and do.

You don't open the gates to a prison and then post signs for the prisoners saying "DONT ESCAPE" and then when they start escaping you're partially blaming the prisoners for not following "The rules". You'd be a complete retard. Joymax owns the game...Joymax manages the game...The players don't own it or manage it.

In a group so large like SRO community there are people who will break the rules if given the opportunity. Its common sense to recognize this fact and it's also common sense to try and prevent them from doing so.

I think this statement is wrong you are right poeple sometimes will break the rules if they can but lets say you don't see police around in your town for 2 years would you start to steal ? your example of a prison is just silly in my opinion because a prison should be full of convicted poeple wich if they get the chance will escape because they are already being punished for what they have done but thats just my opnion
and yes ofcourse Joymax should have done more and has to do more but they really can't even fix the game by themselfs the player comunity has to cooperate and also has to want it

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

_Dutchy_ wrote:

BuDo wrote:

I've had these discussion with Silo a long time ago. The blame is 100% joymax. I know the players are breaking the rules but you can't act surprised when people are given the freedom to break the rules and do.

You don't open the gates to a prison and then post signs for the prisoners saying "DONT ESCAPE" and then when they start escaping you're partially blaming the prisoners for not following "The rules". You'd be a complete retard. Joymax owns the game...Joymax manages the game...The players don't own it or manage it.

In a group so large like SRO community there are people who will break the rules if given the opportunity. Its common sense to recognize this fact and it's also common sense to try and prevent them from doing so.

I think this statement is wrong you are right poeple sometimes will break the rules if they can but lets say you don't see police around in your town for 2 years would you start to steal ? your example of a prison is just silly in my opinion because a prison should be full of convicted poeple wich if they get the chance will escape because they are already being punished for what they have done but thats just my opnion
and yes ofcourse Joymax should have done more and has to do more but they really can't even fix the game by themselfs the player comunity has to cooperate and also has to want it

Wrong again....I wouldn't start stealing just because I'm given the opportunity but don't use me or people like me as winning points for your argument while forgetting about the people who will break the rules. You are living a fairy tale dream if you think that all players ought to have morals and take responsibility if they want to end the bot problem. You're forgetting that some players want to bot..they want to cheat and thats a fact. They're not interested in trying to "clean up" the game. They won't ever stop buying gold either.

You and Silo's point of view are too optimistic when you should be realistic. There are people who wont cheat..people who will and people who don't care either direction. Cleaning up the game is entirely up to Joymax and whether joymax does so or not people will always do what they feel is best for themselves...whether that is to play fair or cheat. It is a reality of life.

Joymax has full power to stop this and they can. The game is their creation and theirs to manage. But it seems you and Silo are looking to the community to dig deep into their morals bucket and do what is right. How can you both sit there and hope that the entire community do the right thing? possibly 1000+ players from different backgrounds and experiences to just all think and behave morally. Especially when joymax isn't punishing them. How naive are the both of u?

SwordCloud · **Posted:** Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:30 am

I don't think these GM can ban or do something like olds GM,maybe only kick people from the server if not less..
<<<<<<<<<<<but i think they do report>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So in other word,imo,they are like normal player but people in GE will listen to them more than us.

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:40 am

ok, talking about polices and thiefs, after they are out of prison, lots of them return back to a normal life. What about bots? After get banned, they refresh as... bots. If a thief gives himself up to the police, the world will be lot lot lot easier to fix than waiting them to come to your house to catch you. Meaning that if you are willing to fix the game an easy and faster way then you got to cooperate with jm. JM banned bots years ago before things get out of control.

We got a peaceful world everyday (not all but most) because people still have moral and respect each other, love the good and hate the bad, that's why criminals are afraid to commit act in public. If there is no police around, the public will report or attack the criminal if he is not armed. At least they do something. They don't just stand there and watch till a police come. Imaging one day, 90% of people gone wild and start robbing and do violence. The police is nothing, they can't do anything beside face palming. You need a good army of people, willingly to fight the bad, well-armed with high tech lazer or not doesn't help. Quantity > quality, you first need group large enough.

That's the solution for this problem. I especially address this to those who turned into bot. Becoming a thief yourself will never help the solution to be better. Miracle will never happened (especially for atheists), it's all about human-human action. JM is fine in any ways, they still got income monthly. But the matter is do you want a good game or not. Maybe you heard about corrupted polices, they help the bad. They are just neutral entities, belong to good or bad doesn't matter, what they just care is that they got well paid monthly. If you want JM to fix the game, firstly you need to show them what do they gain more if they fix it. It's even a better way than "turned myself to bot and wait for miracle". No! If you don't start to do something, what make you think someone else will do it for you?

Goseki · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 3452 **Location:**

NuclearSilo wrote:

ok, talking about polices and thiefs, after they are out of prison, lots of them return back to a normal life. What about bots? After get banned, they refresh as... bots. If a thief gives himself up to the police, the world will be lot lot lot easier to fix than waiting them to come to your house to catch you. Meaning that if you are willing to fix the game an easy and faster way then you got to cooperate with jm. JM banned bots years ago before things get out of control.

We got a peaceful world everyday (not all but most) because people still have moral and respect each other, love the good and hate the bad, that's why criminals are afraid to commit act in public. If there is no police around, the public will report or attack the criminal if he is not armed. At least they do something. They don't just stand there and watch till a police come. Imaging one day, 90% of people gone wild and start robbing and do violence. The police is nothing, they can't do anything beside face palming. You need a good army of people, willingly to fight the bad, well-armed with high tech lazer or not doesn't help. Quantity > quality, you first need group large enough.

That's the solution for this problem. I especially address this to those who turned into bot. Becoming a thief yourself will never help the solution to be better. Miracle will never happened (especially for atheists), it's all about human-human action. JM is fine in any ways, they still got income monthly. But the matter is do you want a good game or not. Maybe you heard about corrupted polices, they help the bad. They are just neutral entities, belong to good or bad doesn't matter, what they just care is that they got well paid monthly. If you want JM to fix the game, firstly you need to show them what do they gain more if they fix it. It's even a better way than "turned myself to bot and wait for miracle". No! If you don't start to do something, what make you think someone else will do it for you?

Eh, I agree with you. Back when I was really into SRO and played daily almost, I would be a trader and spawn thieves, delete friends that were botters, etc. Thing is, a higher lvl would come and kill me and my thieves and say don't touch my goldbots, or eventually my legit friends all quit, so on and so forth.

You can try all you want, but as with your example. Sure a large group of people can work together to bring the bad criminals down, but what if the large group of people were stuck in wheelchairs and had no arms. While the enemy had tanks and ak's..... In that case, quantity doesn't really matter. We can try to make botters outcasts, but with SRO's current situation, they need to be reduced first, than we can outcast them. Not really outcasting them if WE'RE the minority being separated.

The game got to where it is today both due to players and JM, but to clean it up, they need to take some srs action, followed by player support.

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

NuclearSilo wrote:

ok, talking about polices and thiefs, after they are out of prison, lots of them return back to a normal life. What about bots? After get banned, they refresh as... bots. If a thief gives himself up to the police, the world will be lot lot lot easier to fix than waiting them to come to your house to catch you. Meaning that if you are willing to fix the game an easy and faster way then you got to cooperate with jm. JM banned bots years ago before things get out of control.

We got a peaceful world everyday (not all but most) because people still have moral and respect each other, love the good and hate the bad, that's why criminals are afraid to commit act in public. If there is no police around, the public will report or attack the criminal if he is not armed. At least they do something. They don't just stand there and watch till a police come. Imaging one day, 90% of people gone wild and start robbing and do violence. The police is nothing, they can't do anything beside face palming. You need a good army of people, willingly to fight the bad, well-armed with high tech lazer or not doesn't help. Quantity > quality, you first need group large enough.

That's the solution for this problem. I especially address this to those who turned into bot. Becoming a thief yourself will never help the solution to be better. Miracle will never happened (especially for atheists), it's all about human-human action. JM is fine in any ways, they still got income monthly. But the matter is do you want a good game or not. Maybe you heard about corrupted polices, they help the bad. They are just neutral entities, belong to good or bad doesn't matter, what they just care is that they got well paid monthly. If you want JM to fix the game, firstly you need to show them what do they gain more if they fix it. It's even a better way than "turned myself to bot and wait for miracle". No! If you don't start to do something, what make you think someone else will do it for you?

Stop preaching to the masses. You're claims and hopes are very superficial. Get with reality already. Stop tryin to appeal to the morals of botters. It won't work. If you pay close attention its not the botters that are complaining...its the less than 5% that isn't botting.

Think of how ridiculous you are being. You are trying to convince a thief to stop thieving who is being allowed to steal and getting away with it. Its almost impossible for him to stop. Don't blame him for following his nature..blame the people who have the power to stop him but isn't doing so. The world is both fair and unfair. Good and bad coexist and will never go away so stop day dreaming.

Yes I agree in a world full of goodness we the SRO community can solve the bot problem and do Joymax's work for them (Which is retarded). We could all hold hands and sing and stop buying gold and stop botting but in the real world that is extremely unlikely. The real world is whats happening right now..and that is some players will cheat and some wont. The real world isn't purely good or purely bad its both. Get your head out of the clouds

vermillion · **Posted:** Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:22 pm

omg I miss Silkroad. still the best mmo I played. too bad things haven't changed a bit.

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:14 pm

I didn't say the world need to be pure good or bad. I only say that becoming a bot is not the solution. There are lots of choice you can make. Most of the bots used to be legits. It's not like they all start with a bad moral to become bots.

Since what happened happened, there is no point in blaming whose fault. I just want to tell you that becoming a bot, sit in a place and wait for miracle is for dreamer. First, you failed to convince JM why they should ban bots. Second, there is not enough motivation for this changes. 4-5 players send suggestions and reports a day doesn't help. You need a large community to do it, spam bug report, suggestions 10000 messages a day. That's it. Krush at least tried to send the GM a message using stalls. But one player is not enough. What did you do? "I don't care if they bots, it's JM's problem", "I bot because my friends bot too" ?

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

None of us including myself need to tell joymax that they need to get rid of bots...none of us need to make any suggestions on ways to solve SRO's problems. Bots (Especially gold bots) have been making tons of money from joymax customers and if joymax can't see it then they shouldn't be doing any business of any kind. Besides we've already established from years of seeing this plus with the recent posting of Krush openly admitting to a GM that he bots which further shows that joymax DOESN'T want to do anything about botting.

Do I think people should bot?...No I don't think they should. But when the people in charge (Joymax) aren't doing anything about it what you expect me to do? I wont be like you and waste my time blaming the community. And that is basis of my whole argument. Its pointless to turn your attention to the community and find the blame because as long as this game exist there will always be players willing to cheat. So I have to turn to the people (Joymax) who has the power to stop them and ask why....why is botting being allowed to ruin the game for such a long time. I personally hold JOymax 100% responsible

Goseki · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 3452 **Location:**

Wasn't there a post here awhile back of a former SRO GM saying how they all knew of the botting issue, but when they told their higher ups about it, they higher ups said we know, but just ignore those bots. Those in charge of JM seem to want the bots in SRO. Prob for profits due to prem, seemingly popular game, etc.

_Dutchy_ · **Posted:** Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:33 pm

BuDo wrote:

None of us including myself need to tell joymax that they need to get rid of bots...none of us need to make any suggestions on ways to solve SRO's problems. Bots (Especially gold bots) have been making tons of money from joymax customers and if joymax can't see it then they shouldn't be doing any business of any kind. Besides we've already established from years of seeing this plus with the recent posting of Krush openly admitting to a GM that he bots which further shows that joymax DOESN'T want to do anything about botting.

Do I think people should bot?...No I don't think they should. But when the people in charge (Joymax) aren't doing anything about it what you expect me to do? I wont be like you and waste my time blaming the community. And that is basis of my whole argument. Its pointless to turn your attention to the community and find the blame because as long as this game exist there will always be players willing to cheat. So I have to turn to the people (Joymax) who has the power to stop them and ask why....why is botting being allowed to ruin the game for such a long time. I personally hold JOymax 100% responsible

Well it doesn't seem we are gonna agree wich is fine everybody has there right on there own opnion ^^ our opinions are probaly based on our past experiences in our different servers.
i just think in my opinion its impossible to blame jm for anybody starting to bot in the end whos the person that throws the bot on there computer ? who is the person who activates it ? the player himself. I've heard all the excuses " my friends bot " " Jm Doesn't care " but in the end its all excuses poeple who start botting do they bot cuz there friends bot ? or do they bot cuz of there own selfish reasons ?

in the end the bots i do respect and yet dispise the most are the ones that plain out admit they are just to lazy to grind and they know they are wrong they know they cheat. for the rest of the best i just believe they are making excuses to do so turning around it not wanting to face what reasons they have for acautly botting.

and as for the GM's in this game it really bothers me poeple always jump them scolding at them because most poeple don't seem to realise the GM's we see don't have any power they try the best they CAN! be glad they are there they are trying they are probaly getting a sh1tty pay to do a horrible job but they try they do what they can in the end its always the higher ups that decide whats gonna happen
anyways thats my Opnion and my few cents on the matter ^^

Goseki · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 3452 **Location:**

_Dutchy_ wrote:

BuDo wrote:

None of us including myself need to tell joymax that they need to get rid of bots...none of us need to make any suggestions on ways to solve SRO's problems. Bots (Especially gold bots) have been making tons of money from joymax customers and if joymax can't see it then they shouldn't be doing any business of any kind. Besides we've already established from years of seeing this plus with the recent posting of Krush openly admitting to a GM that he bots which further shows that joymax DOESN'T want to do anything about botting.

Do I think people should bot?...No I don't think they should. But when the people in charge (Joymax) aren't doing anything about it what you expect me to do? I wont be like you and waste my time blaming the community. And that is basis of my whole argument. Its pointless to turn your attention to the community and find the blame because as long as this game exist there will always be players willing to cheat. So I have to turn to the people (Joymax) who has the power to stop them and ask why....why is botting being allowed to ruin the game for such a long time. I personally hold JOymax 100% responsible

Well it doesn't seem we are gonna agree wich is fine everybody has there right on there own opnion ^^ our opinions are probaly based on our past experiences in our different servers.
i just think in my opinion its impossible to blame jm for anybody starting to bot in the end whos the person that throws the bot on there computer ? who is the person who activates it ? the player himself. I've heard all the excuses " my friends bot " " Jm Doesn't care " but in the end its all excuses poeple who start botting do they bot cuz there friends bot ? or do they bot cuz of there own selfish reasons ?
in the end the bots i do respect and yet dispise the most are the ones that plain out admit they are just to lazy to grind and they know they are wrong they know they cheat. for the rest of the best i just believe they are making excuses to do so turning around it not wanting to face what reasons they have for acautly botting.
and as for the GM's in this game it really bothers me poeple always jump them scolding at them because most poeple don't seem to realise the GM's we see don't have any power they try the best they CAN! be glad they are there they are trying they are probaly getting a sh1tty pay to do a horrible job but they try they do what they can in the end its always the higher ups that decide whats gonna happen
anyways thats my Opnion and my few cents on the matter ^^

What's the point of a GM/Admin than. If not to ban people that are going against the rules. It's BS imo that SRO GM can't ban anyone. What's the point in having them, to be someone we can all pk? Sure it's our fault we do bad things, but if you think about it, would there really be that many botters if JM allowed their GM to do their JOB and ban botters? No, those who use "my friend bot and got away so i'll do it too" won't work. Only those desperate to win by all means will bot, not every average joe player.

We all saw what happened when the availability of bots got reduced. I heard one type went from free to paid, servers became populated for about a week since people didn't have any bots to use. If JM allowed GM to ban bots, same thing would happen. Only instead of finding a different one, they would have to just play the dam game since all bots would be off-limits now. Pointless if you spend time getting a bot to hit lvl 30 than getting banned. Actually when I first played, one of my friends botted, back in 60 cap. He got to lvl 40 in like 5 days, but than got banned. Than he went back to playing legit until he got bored and quit.

It's our fault for letting botting be in this game, but it's JM fault for letting it get out of hand. Just look at major updates, servers are populated for days until bots are back up. We see how much of the "norm" bots now. If only JM did their job, that would be reduced, and the legits could actually do something against botters.

Honestly if I tried to outcast all my botting friends, and only play with legits, I'd prob be 1/3-5 other people on my server... I bet all the botters will come running to join me than right?

Basically, JM GM fails. Just a show, with no power to enforce anything except if you buy a prem, i can't do anything to you since all i'm allowed to do is kick. BTW, I'm pretty sure old GM like Crayon and whatnots had banning powers. Just FYI.

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:49 pm

It's not like you don't have a choice to deal with. You still have choices to quit or don't play the game at all.

Goseki · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 3452 **Location:**

NuclearSilo wrote:

It's not like you don't have a choice to deal with. You still have choices to quit or don't play the game at all.

Eh, or you could play the game your way and just not be too uptight about bots. It's just that being a legit still sucks. Even more now that we have GM, which was like a boost in moral for legits, than to find out o wait, they fail, just like the rest of JM's attempts. Another scam to lure players back who left due to the shitty state of SRO.

SRO is like an apartment you loved to live in, except it is placed in a bad neighborhood so you left due to danger. JM is like apartment owners. They tell you it's ok to live there now, they just put a security system in. You come back only to realize they did put a security system, too bad the electricity got cut off to the apartment so it makes the security system useless.

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:58 pm

Being legit doesn't suck. You just need a team. Join Venus, play party fighting. You just fail to play a game correctly, that's all.

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

_Dutchy_ wrote:

BuDo wrote:

None of us including myself need to tell joymax that they need to get rid of bots...none of us need to make any suggestions on ways to solve SRO's problems. Bots (Especially gold bots) have been making tons of money from joymax customers and if joymax can't see it then they shouldn't be doing any business of any kind. Besides we've already established from years of seeing this plus with the recent posting of Krush openly admitting to a GM that he bots which further shows that joymax DOESN'T want to do anything about botting.

Do I think people should bot?...No I don't think they should. But when the people in charge (Joymax) aren't doing anything about it what you expect me to do? I wont be like you and waste my time blaming the community. And that is basis of my whole argument. Its pointless to turn your attention to the community and find the blame because as long as this game exist there will always be players willing to cheat. So I have to turn to the people (Joymax) who has the power to stop them and ask why....why is botting being allowed to ruin the game for such a long time. I personally hold JOymax 100% responsible

Well it doesn't seem we are gonna agree wich is fine everybody has there right on there own opnion ^^ our opinions are probaly based on our past experiences in our different servers.
i just think in my opinion its impossible to blame jm for anybody starting to bot in the end whos the person that throws the bot on there computer ? who is the person who activates it ? the player himself. I've heard all the excuses " my friends bot " " Jm Doesn't care " but in the end its all excuses poeple who start botting do they bot cuz there friends bot ? or do they bot cuz of there own selfish reasons ?

in the end the bots i do respect and yet dispise the most are the ones that plain out admit they are just to lazy to grind and they know they are wrong they know they cheat. for the rest of the best i just believe they are making excuses to do so turning around it not wanting to face what reasons they have for acautly botting.

and as for the GM's in this game it really bothers me poeple always jump them scolding at them because most poeple don't seem to realise the GM's we see don't have any power they try the best they CAN! be glad they are there they are trying they are probaly getting a sh1tty pay to do a horrible job but they try they do what they can in the end its always the higher ups that decide whats gonna happen
anyways thats my Opnion and my few cents on the matter ^^

I still don't see why you waste time blaming the players that bot _Dutchy_. They aren't the ones to be blamed. Nobody is stoping them. And thats the problem. Its that simple. There will always be players willing to cheat.

Let me ask you this.....If you left your car parked on the street with the engine running and the doors unlocked as you run into your house to grab your jacket for a minute and when you returned the car was gone..stolen..who would you blame? The car thief? or yourself for giving him the opportunity....I think the person whom you'd be angry at the most would be yourself.

Thats my whole point here. There will always be people willing to bot/buy gold/hack. That will not change but it can be prevented.....And the people who can prevent it aint doing sh!t. You're persistence in blaming botters is like constantly blaming a duck for being a duck. Its retarded and a waste. If you dont understand what I'm saying by now then its hopeless.

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:06 pm

Osama Binladen sent someone to kidnap an airplane and use it to destroy World Trade Center buildings. Who to blame? Binladen the leader, the captain for letting the airplane kidnapped, the WTC for not built with strong walls or the US army for lack of defense? You tell me.

.AWAKE. · **Joined:** Jun 2007 **Posts:** 2070 **Location:**

I would blame osama's parents for ever consummating such an animal

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

NuclearSilo wrote:

Osama Binladen sent someone to kidnap an airplane and use it to destroy World Trade Center buildings. Who to blame? Binladen the leader, the captain for letting the airplane kidnapped, the WTC for not built with strong walls or the US army for lack of defense? You tell me.

If Osama was allowed to walk up in the airport with a well known plan and bombs strapped to his chest and publicly saying he's gonna blow up the twin towers and the people who's soul purpose is to stop people like Osama didn't do shit but watch him and his crew carry out their mission I'd hold those people responsible.

I can't believe you and dutchy sitting there and arguing your point when Krush walks right up to a GM and not only said he bots but showed them his stalls and they didn't do shit...and still you wanna blame botters..lol u guys are hilarious.

NuclearSilo · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:09 am

so botters are innocents?

Goseki · **Joined:** Apr 2008 **Posts:** 3452 **Location:**

NuclearSilo wrote:

so botters are innocents?

Both at fault, it's a matter of who's more responsible.

For Example, A director is shooting a movie, guy is holding a women at gunpoint. He screams he is about to shoot her for cheating on him. A cop walks buy but sees no security, the camera and crew are hidden in the building for the shot. The cop shoots the man and injures him.

Who is more at fault, the cop or the director for not having security around the set?

Botters cheat, legits tried to fight back, failed, figured i'll use the same method to get back at them since they think they're the shit and pwned us over and over for no reason. JM is hiding and doing nothing to prevent the problem from spreading.

Crowley · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:29 am

Play nicely kids.

But really, almost every single post here is WAY too long.

TheDrop · **Joined:** May 2008 **Posts:** 7150 **Location:** uefa2012

SRO is serious business mens

BuDo · **Joined:** Dec 2008 **Posts:** 4714 **Location:**

NuclearSilo wrote:

so botters are innocents?

No..they're not innocent....what I'm saying is botters are the symptom not the cause. The only reason why botters "EXIST" is because of Joymax.

Stop looking at the symptom of the problem and look deeper at the cause. Kill the weed at the ROOT and stop complaining about how it's ruining your garden. The bad weed in the SRO garden is being neglected by the gardener aka Joymax.

_Dutchy_ · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:34 am

BuDo wrote:

NuclearSilo wrote:

Osama Binladen sent someone to kidnap an airplane and use it to destroy World Trade Center buildings. Who to blame? Binladen the leader, the captain for letting the airplane kidnapped, the WTC for not built with strong walls or the US army for lack of defense? You tell me.

If Osama was allowed to walk up in the airport with a well known plan and bombs strapped to his chest and publicly saying he's gonna blow up the twin towers and the people who's soul purpose is to stop people like Osama didn't do shit but watch him and his crew carry out their mission I'd hold those people responsible.

I can't believe you and dutchy sitting there and arguing your point when Krush walks right up to a GM and not only said he bots but showed them his stalls and they didn't do shit...and still you wanna blame botters..lol u guys are hilarious.

We didn't say that JM wants to ban bots or anything we basicly know they don't care but i think me and silo both think
a person is responsible for his own actions every person activates his bot himself so in the end a person who bots is to blame for botting not someone else however i do JM is at fault letting it get this far but nobody can ever blame Joymax for a person turning on his bot JM didn't force them everysingle one of them did it willingly
blaming joymax is like... having a murderer in court .. he murderd someone but hes gonna blame the police for not stopping him ? lol a bit over the top example but thats how i think
anyways don't think me and silo gonna agree with you BuDo
anyways thats how i think you think how you think xD we can argue endlessly but doesn't seem we can change each other's mind

MrSonic · **Joined:** Jan 2008 **Posts:** 325 **Location:**

_Dutchy_ wrote:

BuDo wrote:

NuclearSilo wrote:

Osama Binladen sent someone to kidnap an airplane and use it to destroy World Trade Center buildings. Who to blame? Binladen the leader, the captain for letting the airplane kidnapped, the WTC for not built with strong walls or the US army for lack of defense? You tell me.

If Osama was allowed to walk up in the airport with a well known plan and bombs strapped to his chest and publicly saying he's gonna blow up the twin towers and the people who's soul purpose is to stop people like Osama didn't do shit but watch him and his crew carry out their mission I'd hold those people responsible.

I can't believe you and dutchy sitting there and arguing your point when Krush walks right up to a GM and not only said he bots but showed them his stalls and they didn't do shit...and still you wanna blame botters..lol u guys are hilarious.

We didn't say that JM wants to ban bots or anything we basicly know they don't care but i think me and silo both think
a person is responsible for his own actions every person activates his bot himself so in the end a person who bots is to blame for botting not someone else however i do JM is at fault letting it get this far but nobody can ever blame Joymax for a person turning on his bot JM didn't force them everysingle one of them did it willingly
blaming joymax is like... having a murderer in court .. he murderd someone but hes gonna blame the police for not stopping him ? lol a bit over the top example but thats how i think
anyways don't think me and silo gonna agree with you BuDo
anyways thats how i think you think how you think xD we can argue endlessly but doesn't seem we can change each other's mind

Lets take your example of a Murderer: what does he think about before he commits a murder? He thinks about the consequences for his actions: he'll go to jail, he will lose his freedom, his whole life will change not only during his sentence but also after the sentence since he will forever have a criminal record that will show up whenever he's looking for a job, trying to get a traveling pass, etc.
What does a 13 year old kid think about when he's about to download a bot for Silkroad? -"Oh its just a game, its not like its gonna impact my life in any way! The worst that can happen is that JM will ban me but knowing them even thats not gonna happen!"-
See where I'm getting at? You can't possibly expect someone to take a video game's rules as seriously as the real life's law, hence they will be much more tempted to break them, even if their values are at the beginning fairly good. This is where the makers of said video game come in, its THEIR JOB to make sure that THEIR OWN rules are respected, you can't possibly expect a "moral leader" to come out of nowhere and while leveling his own character run around distributing pamphlets against botting to all of his friends. Its JM's job to guide the community and make sure their game stays exploit-free and enjoyable for everyone

Lets take Runescape and Jagex for example, what did they do when they started having botters in their game? Not only did they post warnings against botting all over their website, but they clearly stated that ANYONE caught botting will be permanently banned. And, OMG, they actually did it! A whole bunch of people, including paying customers, got their accounts banned. Yes, Jagex did lose some profit from it, but what would have hapenned had they let the bots run rampant in their game? They would have multiplied and started ruining the gameplay for legit players, who in return would have quit the game, leading to even more profit loss to the company then had they banned the botters while their numbers were small.

The same could have applied to SRO and JM. They had one of the best MMORPGs on the market with tons of potential to be one of the best games out there for the next 5 years +. Instead they didn't do sh1t about it and now their game is dead and buried.

_Dutchy_ · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:03 am

i do understand your point botting has to have a certain fear factor to be stopped and prevented but my point is that every player starts his own bot hence you never can fully blame Joymax no matter what you do the player is at fault to and i won't deny Joymax does a sh1tty job

EDIT : i do understand what you are trying to say a person's decision or acts always have side reason's but i do believe every person in the end is responsible for his own decisions and never can fully blame it on side reason's
also you are right it is a game poeple look to it difrently and will more likely and faster cheat
but if they do no matter what they say they cannot blame Joymax for them starting to do it

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