Word Of Caution: For those that are very religous, I advise against watching this, as it may/may not offend you. You have been warned.
Spoiler!
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Discuss? Opinions? Thoughts?
This absolutely blew my mind, and as an aetheist myself,this video just reinforced my ideas and thoughts on how so many religions had so manys similarities.
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 5573 Location: Netherlands
Is this the one where they compare a lot of religions and say they all have similarities?
Here's an idea: what if it actually really happened, but because of a lack of modern day communication technology the story survived from mouth to mouth, thus creating a lot of versions. The core is the same, the details vary.
I don't believe in god, but I just really don't like these kind of videos. This video will only drive a bigger wedge between atheists and religious people. Atheists don't like it when religious people preach to them, and it's the same the other way around. I used to care a bit about being an atheist, but really, there is no point. If being religious makes you happy, then go for it. Just let me make my own choice, and we can all live happily ever after!
Is this the one where they compare a lot of religions and say they all have similarities?
Here's an idea: what if it actually really happened, but because of a lack of modern day communication technology the story survived from mouth to mouth, thus creating a lot of versions. The core is the same, the details vary.
I don't believe in god, but I just really don't like these kind of videos. This video will only drive a bigger wedge between atheists and religious people. Atheists don't like it when religious people preach to them, and it's the same the other way around. I used to care a bit about being an atheist, but really, there is no point. If being religious makes you happy, then go for it. Just let me make my own choice, and we can all live happily ever after!
Kind of, but they also talk about how the bible is purely a refrence to astronomy or something like that.
Many things I didn't know and this makes religion look pathetic beyond belief.
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
Last edited by Love on Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2706 Location: Resistance Headquarters
I'm always doing debates with people on religion. I'm in the middle of one right now and i always starts out as a simple question to one person then there friends jump in and helps them out and they start trying to team up on me. "I totally agree with what my friend said". There beliefs aren't based on facts or evidence, then they turn around and want you to show evidence that disproves there religion lol. The evidence is there they just don't accept them for what it is.
Maybe you'll find these interesting if you haven't seen them already.
I have several of his books, The God Delusion, The Blind Watchmaker, and The Greatest Show on Earth The Evidence for Evolution. All of them are awesome.
Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris is a good read too...destroys the Christian faith in only 114 pages, I couldn't put it down.
OMFG dude words shit at a mindblowing level, subscribe and listen to his shit like right now !
_________________
Guild Wars 2, Isle of Janthir (NA)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
I'm always doing debates with people on religion. I'm in the middle of one right now and i always starts out as a simple question to one person then there friends jump in and helps them out and they start trying to team up on me. "I totally agree with what my friend said". There beliefs aren't based on facts or evidence, then they turn around and want you to show evidence that disproves there religion lol. The evidence is there they just don't accept them for what it is.
Maybe you'll find these interesting if you haven't seen them already.
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2706 Location: Resistance Headquarters
Last reply i just got in one of my on going debates. This one has been going on for 4 days now. lol
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okay, i took look at the list, those are a bunch of random verses and different translations, and of the ones I read (i looked for the most convincing or groundbreaking ones that were not completely trivial) they are all taken out of context.... Funny, it appears that it takes more faith and belief to not believe in the bible than it does to believe it as true... even more interesting, it means putting your faith and belief into the people (who are human and make mistakes) who tell you its not factual by taking bits and pieces of what they say to be contradictory.
My purpose in this conversation is not to change your views. Its really not that deep. Believe in whatever, or whomever, you like. you are still believing in someone or something though ultimately, and even if you don't think you are, you may just be believing in yourself
For myself, I have chosen to believe that there is a God who loves me. That I have been separated from Him because of my sin. That in and of myself i can do nothing to repay my debt of that sin. and that only through Jesus Christ, whom was sinless and was killed on the cross, I can be reunited with God To live out a purpose set for me and all who choose to believe in Christ. That purpose is this, To enjoy and treasure and savor the love and fellowship that is given to me freely and that I would share this good news with everyone, not to give any glory to myself, but to give glory to God because he deserves it.... See More
Others may choose to believe that we are a result of the big bang (or whatever theory it is now) that our life is the result of millions of years of evolution. that we are insignificant in the universe and just kind of happen to be here. that there is no life after death and that we should probably just live it up now because this is all we get (which sucks because we spend most of our time paying off things we can't afford, and trying to look better than the people around us) and that the human race has lived for thousands of years just fooling ourselves with an idea as foolish as a God who created the universe (which is really awesome) and a sponge like material at the base of a giraffe's brain so it wont explode from blood pressure when it bends over to drink, and the way the moon changes the tides, and how if the earth was just a tiny bit closer, or further away from the sun it would be unlivable, etc. it just all seems so very hopeless to me and I don't really think I'd be able to enjoy much of my life if i spent most of my time thinking of reasons why everything's wrong so that i can be right.
That is a perfectly fine belief to have, but to me it just does not seem logical in any way whatsoever. I just want to share with you the truth and hope that any one can have in Christ Jesus.
Your truth seems to have bound you... My truth has set me free.
That is a perfectly fine belief to have, but to me it just does not seem logical in any way whatsoever. I just want to share with you the truth and hope that any one can have in Christ Jesus.
Your truth seems to have bound you... My truth has set me free.
Interesting statement towards the end. I'm in the state of mind that its quite the opposite way around. My view is that religion has closed the minds of people, that if anything, just prevents critical thinking. As a non-beleiver, I feel that i'm "free" of the illusions people are under through religion, and that i'm aware of reality for what it actually is. I choose to side with reason rather than faith because it just makes more sense.
Last edited by Heosphoros on Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 2706 Location: Resistance Headquarters
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Interesting statement towards the end. I'm in the state of mind that its quite the opposite way around. My view is that religion has closed the minds of people, that if anything, just prevents critical thinking. As a non-beleiver, I feel that i'm "free" of the illusions people are under through religion, and that i'm aware of reality for what it actually is. I choose to side with reason rather than faith because it just makes more sense.
Yeah that's exactly how i feel too. They like to set themselves higher than you like they have this inside knowledge that you don't. In the middle of each of our replies there are other people replying to him going "AMEN", "I totally agree with what he said" They add nothing to the discussion and i know there just trying to set me off and make me look like the irrational one. Almost all the time its myself vs like 5 people. I'm slowly building up more connections with other FreeThinkers,Agnostics,Atheists, People of reason and science, etc so that when I'm in a debate i can get some insight and not look so hard for material and also so that i don't go in the wrong direction and get yourself into a corner.
You know what's wrong with you Dopple? You're not an Atheist. You're an anti-religion dude. First of all, an Atheist IS a person that is anti-religion
You call religious people very sensitive and that they never wanna hear anything other then their religion... you're no different. Could you please quote where he mentioned any of that
Why can't you just live your life as an Atheist, and let whatever religion people live whatever religion they want to live. Freedom of religion... He's not forceing you or anyone to be Atheist
I don't care if you don't believe in God. You shouldn't care that we do. But we do care, there all around us affecting society in every way possible
If you think Religon is keeping the World from advancing, think again. Religion has been on Earth from the dawn of mankind. Well the world will advance no matter what circumstances, with or without religion, Ibeleive that Religion is merely slowing the process, because of contradictions of facts and faith.
The only way Religion can keep people brainwashed is if you use religion like the Christians did in the Dark Ages; for personal gain. Trying to force people that they'll go to hell unless they pay them to get rid of their sins, selling land on heaven for money on Earth... etc. I'm sure you're probably more knowledged about that age more then me. idk how to reply to this
If I sound offended in anyway, then you just read my reply with a wrong impression ^^. I've learned and stopped caring for threads like these and learned to ignore them. I stopped trying to "call" people to my religion or even trying to "defend" my religion on the wrongs people have learned, but it's useless on the internet. I would just love seeing Dopple do the same, not trying to call people OUT of their religion... I don't see the part where Dopple even mentioned to "call people OUT of their religion."
The fact of the matter is, Dopple is NOT "offending" religion itself, but merely critizing it. I use the topic of Religion to hear peoples opinions and thoughts on the matter, its simply because I love to think for hours on end about unanswerable ideas. I'm sorry If I've offended you in anyway, as i had no intention of being rude,harsh, nor ignorant. I respect you & your avatar
Last edited by Heosphoros on Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
You know what's wrong with you Dopple? You're not an Atheist. You're an anti-religion dude. You know this how? Please do back this up.
You call religious people very sensitive and that they never wanna hear anything other then their religion... you're no different. Example plz? If your refering to Dopple not wanting to hear anything that isn't back up with evidence I truely don't see anything wrong with that.
Why can't you just live your life as an Atheist, and let whatever religion people live whatever religion they want to live. Freedom of religion...
I don't care if you don't believe in God. You shouldn't care that we do.
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Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs money. - George Calin
Honestly Dopple shouldn't need to explain why he is concern about the progress of humunity.
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When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals, after the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil, and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil. - Gary Potter, President of Catholics for Christian Political Action
I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation, We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conguer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism. Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God's law, on the Ten Commandments. No apologies. - Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue
If you think Religon is keeping the World from advancing, think again. Religion has been on Earth from the dawn of mankind. Religion didn't come about till the Mesopotamia cultures, I highly doubt cavemen where worried about an invisible diety.
The only way Religion can keep people brainwashed is if you use religion like the Christians did in the Dark Ages; for personal gain. Trying to force people that they'll go to hell unless they pay them to get rid of their sins, selling land on heaven for money on Earth... etc. I'm sure you're probably more knowledged about that age more then me. You and I both know religious brainwashing is happening as fast as a cell can mutiply, whenever a baby is borned into a religious family he/she is already indoctrinated, no question about it. Why do religious leader care so much about the "cruelty" of abortion yet give no shit about whether a baby a living person if gaven the choice may or may not choose to be a thiest.
If I sound offended in anyway, then you just read my reply with a wrong impression ^^. I've learned and stopped caring for threads like these and learned to ignore them. I stopped trying to "call" people to my religion or even trying to "defend" my religion on the wrongs people have learned, but it's useless on the internet. I would just love seeing Dopple do the same, not trying to call people OUT of their religion...
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I don't care if you don't believe in God. You shouldn't care that we do.
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offtopic and less serious: If I had to be in a religion it would have to be one that worshipped Pixar, I mean Wall E, and now Up omg I was crying like a baby...what will they come up with next.
You honestly didn't get the video, I don't blame you its natural for someone like you to recieve it that way.
ofy1993 wrote:
John_Doe wrote:
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I don't care if you don't believe in God. You shouldn't care that we do.
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"making the world safe for those who wish to do very bad things on the basis of their faith"
lol, very bad things.
are you fuckin kidding me? This is the video you're showing me? That Imam tells people that your faith is KILLING people?
Learn Islam. Look it up. Know that taking life is an extremely serious issue. Unless it's a homosexual, a women not wearing a cloth, a person commiting apostasy, I'd also like to add dislaying the prophet in a cartoon publish by a Danish newspaper, etc. No one tells anyone that being a suicide bomber is your faith and that you have to obey it. You choose what you want to be. Really? So a kid born to Islamic parents, can grow to the age of 16+ and learn about religions and go out onto the street and declare I am a athiest, agonostic, or thiest without fear? Your faith is decided/known by Allah. Faith is how your life is going to go. This does not effect your life at all. I can not know my faith. No one can know my faith except God himself. Faith is what has happenned to us. Your experiences and ideas about your holy book mean nothing to the brainwashed and mindless mass.
Let's say there are two teams I want to join. I send a request to both of them. One of them deny me, the other one accepts me. The one that has accepted me was in my faith. It was already known by God which team I was going to go into. Now, does God knowing my faith effect at all as to where I could of gone? No. Yes god an all powerful being is way to concern about something as inconsequential as you joining a team , that he will instead not go stop disease and war, etc. Again I fail to see how this compares to useing "Faith" as a device for acts of evil.
He knew my faith because He knew the team I was going to go to. I did not go there because He knew it. He knew it because I was going to go there. Again inconsequential and redundant.
Presenting me a video from a guy speaking about something he does not know is not a smart move. I'm sure if you went into a debate with this "guy" you'd most certainly lose, and learn things about your holy book that you didn't know from all those years of cherry picking from it.Allah never orders anyone to kill anyone. We are not even allowed to kill Atheists for being Athesist. Honestly I'm starting to think you cherry pick from your holy book, did you even read the damn thing. If there is a war between two people, for conquer or for defense, then you are allowed to fight against the person that RAISES a hand against you. (Not 100% sure if I stated correct).
For example, if me and my army want to invade a city (I don't know the exact rules on those for I do not have any plans on doing so), I am still not allowed to kill ANYONE who does not fight against us, women, and all children. I can not force anyone to join my religion as well. Again "For you" does not matter to the mass. You are not leading the mass of religious followers, you are not preaching to the mass of religious.
Look up some old Ottaman history. You will see that when the Ottamans invaded a city, they did not harm anyone innocent, they did not burn any churches down. They let everyone live their religions as they used to live before. Read your damn Quran? I'm not debating history here, I am talking about religion not the rise and fall of the Ottoman Empire.
I'll also tell you a good story. During our Prophet's time, one of the great warriors in war was fighting against an enemy. He swung his sword and (maybe punched, maybe kicked) knocked the guy over. When the guy was on the floor, he raised his sword and just when he was going to stab in the heart, the enemy spat on his face. He then held him up and took him as a victim. When they asked him why he did this, he said that if he had killed him before spitting, it would of been for the war but after he spit, it got personal and if he had killed him, it would of been because he got furious at him and not because of the war. If he had killed him for his personal gain, he would of also sinned the sin of killing another mankind. Again inconsequential and redundant.
I can not believe how well you guys drag me here >-<.
Yet you believe in evolution, which has also not been proven perfectly. It's still a "theory".
Need I say more? Honestly how you a perfectly similar human similar to me in all ways but birthplace and environment with no super powers, no abilities different that of mine can blatantly state that some 2000 year old book that is also predated by Judaism is the truth without no tangible evidence is puzzling.
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you fail to see the point. also, I've realized your thoughts are also weak. You're telling me God should worry about disease that he CREATED? Hell yea, WTF is he making people suffer for? What some guy in the past pissed him off so he decide to kill millions upon millions just cause of his god damn ego?I say he created everything around you, you tell me why does he not find a cure for cancer.
Let me take a guess you have some very earth shattering evidence that doesn't involve faith nor blind belief that it is God who made everything right? Because if you don't I call BS. Why doesn't god find a cure for cancer? Cause he doesn't exist? That wasn't so hard.
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I'm trying to explain the "very bad" things people do with "faith" that dude mentioned. I used an example to help explain faith. Either I failed to explain it, or you failed to understand it.
Joining a team, nah not really, tales of heroic warriors redundant as well. I mean if that were the case Christianity has got a bunch of tales with heroes and joining teams...
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I may loose. It still won't mean there's no God. It just means I haven't educated myself enough.
The question of god is different from the question of the Islamic God, the question of god is up to philosophers to debate, but the Islamic god nah not real, and if you want to be ignorant so be it. You speak of education yet if it come to the questioning of your god all bets are off, not because you got evidence to back up your claim but just some 2000 year old book and faith.
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You act like I'm some brainwased person forced to be a Muslim. Just shows how ignorant and prejudice you are about religion.
It's fine as well. I don't blame you. There will always be Atheists vs Religion till the world ends. There will always be Atheist leaders who make sense by altering and minupilating facts and gaining an audience like you. Plz name a few and the information they altered, and I'd be incline to do the same shouldn't be to hard if We both start from the Dark Ages to now. Right?
Don't bother replying. I see you have a pattern of replying with a 50% that's irrelevant response, 30% replying with the wrong information you have, and 20% my miswording.
You say that religious people believe in stuff they don't see. Yet you believe in evolution, which has also not been proven perfectly. It's still a "theory". There are many people who still don't believe in evolution. People had been lied for what, 30 years?, thanks to that fake skull in Russia just to get people to believe in evelotuon and not believe in God.
Nice you've gone as low as attacking my intelligence. How very predictable.
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Last edited by John_Doe on Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
You say that religious people believe in stuff they don't see. Yet you believe in evolution, which has also not been proven perfectly. It's still a "theory". There are many people who still don't believe in evolution. People had been lied for what, 30 years?, thanks to that fake skull in Russia just to get people to believe in evelotuon and not believe in God.
You can't see the wind, so how can you know it's there? You see the effect on its surroundings.
You say that religious people believe in stuff they don't see. Yet you believe in evolution, which has also not been proven perfectly. It's still a "theory". There are many people who still don't believe in evolution. People had been lied for what, 30 years?, thanks to that fake skull in Russia just to get people to believe in evelotuon and not believe in God.
Evolution is as much a theory as the theory of gravity. We can literally throw the entire fossil record away and still have tons of evidence for evolution because it still occurs. So please, don't get so excited about the semantics here.
Y'know, when you get a cold or something, scientists have to look for cures for various new strands of the Influenza virus that continue mutating all the time. They do so by studying the evolutionary traits of the virus to predict its behavior and other properties that can help find an immunizing agent for the strand. Where were you the past year? I'm sure you noticed a little something called the "Swine Flu", which was an evolved strain of the influenza virus.
If you want to talk evolutionary science, try searching beyond creationist websites that have a pre-determined agenda to their findings. The other problem with thinking X book holds all the answers is that theres bound to be another book to exploit the same vague language. No god has anything to do with evolutionary science. The fact that evolution does not fit your story book does not mean evolution must be false. Basing your proof on retrospective evidentialism is very poor grounds for defending your stance.
It is none of my concern what your beliefs are, and I welcome you to believe anything you'd like so long as it doesn't harm anyone else. I won't sit here and tell you if a god exists or not because I don't know, but nor does anyone else. If you don't believe in evolution, that's your prerogative, but if you want to spread misinformation on the matter then be prepared to defend it. And if you can't defend it, then I suggest you get educated.
Edit: Is it just me or are these threads getting boring? I feel like I keep repeating myself verbatim.
Last edited by strangelove on Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hell yea, WTF is he making people suffer for? What some guy in the past pissed him off so he decide to kill millions upon millions just cause of his god damn ego?I say he created everything around you, you tell me why does he not find a cure for cancer. Let me take a guess you have some very earth shattering evidence that doesn't involve faith nor blind belief that it is God who made everything right? Because if you don't I call BS. Why doesn't god find a cure for cancer? Cause he doesn't exist? That wasn't so hard.
Again, I say God created everything around you, you tell me did God get angry at a man and create cancer. The reason there is cancer, and the reason God does not cure it is because this world is a test for us. It is a test for the better "world". This world is temporary. Even though 70 years may seem long, it is like a 2 hours exam test we go into before entering university. Like how 2 hours is very little, but extremely important in the coming 8 years, this world is extremely short, but extremely important to the infinity afterlife we believe in. Hmmm...I've heard this one before, so much for asking for intangible evidence.
John_Doe wrote:
Need I say more? Honestly how you a perfectly similar human similar to me in all ways but birthplace and environment with no super powers, no abilities different that of mine can blatantly state that some 2000 year old book that is also predated by Judaism is the truth without no tangible evidence is puzzling.
I believe in a book from ~1400 years ago because there is evidence it has not changed. I beleive in it because it is a book of about 600 pages, 0 mistakes?
http://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm
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http://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm
No mistakes no differences of translations really? So by your standard a guy 1000-2000 years from now anyone can pick up Harry Potter or Twilight and make it a religion? Well doesn't look so good for your religion then if that's all that it takes.
We all know every human makes mistakes. If our book was written by a human, who DID NOT even know how to read and write, over a 30 year period, don't you think there would at least be one mistake in it? Don't you think there would at least be one story in it that does not make sense. One story in it that science proved us wrong. You mean like the idea of a Invisble men in the sky who can hear and see everything we do and if we step out of line we end up in a fiery pit in eternal damnation? I find that pretty hard to prove right. Hmmm...they didn't know how to write for "30 years" therefore it must be divine work that did it. Good reasoning.
Honestly John, I want you to take 30 mins, 15 mins if you must to take a good look at this site.
Look under the Scientific miracles parts. Just loose this "image" you have of religion. I believe in the Qu'ran because a book about 1400 years old, knew what scientists are recently discovering. When people did not even know that Earth was circular, the Qu'ran told them that there were starts and other planets who followed a course (orbits we know of today). Well, why we just don't use the Quran as our science book is beyonded me, I mean that some compelling evidence, one sentence about stars and planets, I mean who needs a whole essay with research and evidence. O lord I see the light.
Wait shouldn't you and I also worship Nostradamusas well I mean his predictions came true or at least enough people believed so. Honestly if your evidence is nothing but coincidental events interpreted as aligning with your text or as miracles, then I already get enough of that from Christianity and it just doesn't work as "evidence". Do present to me a whole essay in your book on the topic of expanding universe, the development of the fetus, gravity, or E=MC2. Or is it just like random one liners like the misinterpretation of the Christian tale of Jonah and the Whale being used as evidence for the Mid Atlantic Range. Honestly If I dig through text by Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and find quotes that match any event that happened since the Dark Age and I also claim that text to be the holy truth? Or does it only work for you?
For other examples, please refer to the site I posted above.
I'm trying to proove the existence in God. You're trying to proove there is no God. I'll also watch a video, or surf a site for 15 mins if you want me to as well.
If you're really into researching God's existence or not, then I recommend this book.
Science by Maurice Bucaille.
I'm not interested in God, I am concern about the detrimental effect organized religion has on our society I want to see my politicians make decisions because of reason, not because he/she prayed to to some invisible deity.
You don't seem to be one of those "I'm an Atheist, I don't care about any of you. **** you all. I'm going to live my life however I want to. Just live your life." You actually seem to be interested in the truth. And you don't seem like those fanatic who claim an act in the name of God and go and blow themselves up along with 30 other people. I'm glad we understand each other.
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and trust me, I am as well. I'm not the kind of guy "o look, my parents said God exists, I'll believe in it". I've listened to many stories and read many sites on the existence on life. However, the biggest things that built up my faith in God are the things that happenned to me.
See that's my problem right there, "trust me" I sure your a decent guy, heck most everyday religious people are decent people, but I cannot accept an idea, an illusion on faith alone it is irrational to do so. Would I make my point any clearer if I said trust me god doesn't exist because reality has yet to shown me otherwise or as you put it of the things that happened to me.?
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I feel like I keep repeating myself verbatim.