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Think of it this way. I have a ball, in my hands right now, physically here. I have evidence of its existance, i can taste,smell,feel,touch,hear it etc. I can rightfully, undoubtedly say, "I have a ball." Now if i were to walk up to you, empty handed and say i have a ball in my hands, you would most likely disagree. I would simply reply "You can't prove I don't have a ball." The existance of something is reliant on the fact on whether or not there is evidence to support it being there. That whole "Absence of proof is not proof of absence" is bullshit. There is no way to prove something that never existed, so therfore, there is no way to disprove it, because there is no evidence to find. Conclusion: It Can't/Has/or Will ever exist. It, being refrence to all divine deities.

TL;DR - The cake is a lie and "Absence of proof is not proof of absence" is ubsurd.

My pickle with Abrahamic religions are the ongoing converting efforts.

Personally, I am Wiccan. I don't seek to convert anybody, my children will be free to choose what they please, and I'm not affected by my "congregation" having small numbers.

I attend a Christian church, and am the head of the sound ministry(secretly pagan, mind you). And can honestly tell you--It's all business. More people = more money for bigger events which in turn brings more people meaning more money for BIGGER events to bring more people...rinse+repeat.


BTW: No music=no miracles. Better music=more "fire" from god.

(Lucifer took care of the music in Heaven...(most important Archangel)...damn Christian indoctrination.. =/)

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You win once you relate music and "god's presence".

the thing is, the convert efforts is not a push from god. all people of christianity are supposed to do is tell people about the good news of their right standing with the father. if people dont listen, who cares, move on. all religion is business. thats why false doctrine is so rampant in christianity today. lie to people and tell them god wants your money or you get punished, stupid people empty their pockets. lie to people and promise eternal life in fire and and anguish, you can control their actions. same with the false concept of floating into space when you die if youre good. the bible does NOT teach these, but the pulpit does. $$ and control, o and molesting little boys. thats what its all about.

Oh please dopple and John you two should just stfu. Denying god is one thing but just outright denying religion and its contributions to mankind is another thing. You can't sit here and deny the fact that religion in some ways has been beneficial to man whether it is the polytheistic Greek religion or the monotheistic Judaic religion. Why are you two so intent on getting in people's business and trying to disprove their religion? That's what the creationist who you so vehemently hate do. How the hell would you two know that the world would be so much better without religion. How would you know that the morals and ethics set up by earlier religions would manifest into the human race? Unless you have someway of knowing that human progress would be indeed better off without religion, you need to put a cork in that argument. Stop looking for only negative effects and look for the positive effect as well. Right now as I can see you two just have one side of the story.

judaism is henotheistic, not mono theistic.

Judaic also means Christianity and Islam. I know what I'm talking about.

Because religion has caused wars, corruption, etc. The list goes on. If you could provide examples of the good deeds religion has done, that would be great.

Generally speaking from experience, people have NOT stopped at a simple "god loves you". I am repulsed by "pastors" and their mindless "sheep".

Religion Thread #364547689
With John with his usual anti-religion shit, ofy with his defending of religion, and dopple making smartass comments, as always.

religion causes both bad and good, although i don't see as many goods as bads. religion, like as was stated before, limits the advances in science and understandings of ourselves. although it also is a good thing for the people who have problems with "whats the meaning of life?".

And whose fault is that? That would be the fault of humans, not god or multiple deities. If religion is what really caused it, then you should also hate things like money, land, change, love. You know the things that force people to fight.

I'll just give you some benefits of religion.
religion has and always has inspired some of the most creative eras in history, including the Renaissance, the Golden Age of Islam, and the great philosophical thinkers of antiquity.
religion gives people hope. As I have leukemia I have talked with many families that are effected by the disease and their faith in their religion and that something good will come always seems to make them strong and faithful to each other. I don't even mind when they preach to me anymore(I'm agnostic). You need to stop being so negative and looking at the bad things in life and look at the positive things as well. That is what my experience with this cancer has taught me and it's a good lesson. No one is asking you to change, repent, believe in this or that god, we just ask that you give religion it's props and respect and for you to recognize there is more to religion than judgment and general persecution of the different.

You can blame humans, but religion has and does cause war, look at the middle east.

not to mention things like the crusades and the spanish inquisition.

Humans are under the illusion that they do these certain things for the sole purpose of being revived into heaven, or some jazz like that. The Cake is a lie. Sure its humanitys fault, but what causes them to beleive in this? Faith, or there religion. For example, when the pope ordered the crusades to take back jerusalem, it was a massacre, and there justification for doing so? Sense, makes none. But hey wtf do i know, I havn't even graduated highschool yet.

I don't believe god, gabriel, jesus, muhammed came down from heaven and told the humans they must kill or be killed, or that you cannot let these moors live in your land, or that you must fight for the holy land. That was purely human decision. Those wars shouldn't even have happened according to their holy books as Muslims, Christians, and Jews worship the same go. The Quran even calls the Jews and Muslims spiritually pure. You seem to be focused on the Judaic religions and it's not fair to group all of the worlds countless religions into an umbrella based on the history of those three.

edit: Above poster, ultimately it was human behavior. That is undeniable and I'm not telling you to deny the bad deeds of religions, just the opposite of that. You should acknowledge them and along with the good deeds.

I'm just using examples that are widely known. While yes it was a human decision, religion is what caused those events, they where motivated by their religion. If your saying the middle east doesn't hate each other because of religion, I'd really like to know what your smoking.

thats my point. thats wrong. they are going to be judge harshly.

"(Religion) With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion" - Steven Weinberg

A very fitting quote, I think it applies to several of our replies here.

Very fitting indeed.

So wait? What do you believe in then? The big bang? Or something else?

Not sure where you're going with that? All evidence points to a big bang event. One basic piece of evidence, redshift. Physics basically works backwards, on residual evidence and current conditions of the universe to arrive at the big bang theory. However, the big bang theory doesn't explain where it all came for, it is simply the event that inflated the universe. Our problem is the current laws break down after going back into the big bang several billionths of a second, at the singularity.

Basically..there was something...bang(ie inflationary theory) then more accelerated expansion. What was before the big bang, where it came from, we simply do not know yet. there are many theories on it, and many seem to work, the problem is we have more than one theory. Quantum mechanics is in the process of working things out.. it entails some pretty strange stuff.

If that isn't where you were going with the comment..sry.

religion or atheism still exist till now because no one has ever really been able to disprove either side
there is no point in convincing someone to believe what we believe, free will guys

Not to be nit-picky, but how do you prove lack of belief in something?

"I lack belief in deities"... "Prove it." Huh?....

Atheism is not a religion, it's not even a belief system..it is lack of belief.

well, then religion is not lack of belief

That's fine, I was just being picky.

The eras you mentioned had little to do with religion as it foundations. The Golden Age of Islam was not called so because everyone was orthodox Muslims and ideas and thinking were limited to strict interpretations of the Quaran. Ironically the Golden Age of Islam was an age that encouraged philosophical discussion for and against the belief in God, a very liberal era not constrained by the strict doctrine of its text. It was only when people were free to question religion and god and everything around them that they were able to accomplish so much. The Renaissance is of course the rediscovering of the Golden Age of Islam anyway so again, no relgion involved.

Religion has done little for the world but belief in God can do wonders for person. Religion has caused nothing but war and strife throughout the ages but when people set aside there religious beliefs and just believe that someone greater than them is looking out for them and helping them through whatever difficult times they are going through they somehow manage to pull out a little more strength. The belief in God is very much psychological, almost like a placebo. You can ask any doctor and they will say that a patients mindset has alot to do with their outcome. It cannot conquer all things, memento mori, but it can pull them through sometimes.

Religion is evil, rest assured. It is purpose corrupted and exploited. It is the idea of God wrapped and embellished with the thoughts of man to bridge that impossible gap between man and God and in doing so it always lowers God to the level of a man because men cannot truly fathom a pure God, free of the limits and impurities of human nature.

so the belief in God deserves props sometimes, i can see why its convincing even necessary for some people. Belief in religion...it ends in disaster for all...

Xemnas, I'd have to say your the most intelligent person on this forum, I really do enjoy reading your posts.

XLax, I'd have to say ur the best ass kisser on this forum...

One day I compared the people in the Church who was worshiping one evening, with the people inside bars, pub house, and in night clubs in the same night. I noticed that it was hell a lot of a different in numbers. And if you gather all the people with 5 difference Churches who was worshiping that night and compare it to a famous night club, the combined numbers of people in the church would never reach the 1/2 population of people inside the famous night club. Sometimes you can question why people say that religion is bad when in the modern day teenager you can see them spend more time on having fun rather than spending time in church? Should atheist also accuse nightclubs, beer houses, and bars for wasting a person's time rather than help develop science, create theories, test and do experiments?

also i always as thing to myself, now can anyone answer this, cuz its bugging me out. Now its 2010, i dont see anything that the human being have evolve within this time period, no extra bone or some added muscles where evolve to obese people or something relative to that. I watched History Channel and they talked about evolution. all they said the human have just changed height add minus some couple of inches in the past thousand of years...

Simple answer, evolution occurs over large time scales. Especially in species with generations as long as ours. Everything is in a constant state of evolution, every organism you see is a transitional form.

Gotta love this answer. Your pretty much saying, "It takes such a long time for species to evolve that we probably won't ever see them actually evolving. BUT EVOLUTION IS STILL REAL!"