Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 9841 Location: US - Illidan
Fiction wrote:
Jstar1 wrote:
^I skim through your posts in this thread and your really cynical about both parties and talk as if you know everything.
Is there a reason I shouldn't be cynical about both parties? As someone who works for a living, I don't get any welfare checks, so why would I vote democrat? As someone that doesn't agree with policing the world and endless wars, why would I vote republican? As someone that disagrees with having my personal liberties stripped away, why would I want either party? I talk about what I know, you won't see me in an anime thread talking about Dragon Ball Z because I don't know shit about it, but I know enough about politics to rant on the subject for months... el oh el..
About the one thing you had the heart to rebut, oil prices are still driven by speculators, so not all variables that effect price at the pump come from the international market. The U.S. government has plenty of ways of raising and lowering the prices at the pump just through taxes, not even mentioning other legislation/regulations. Again, not "dead wrong" and why would I need to listen to any thing Gingrich has to say on the matter.. If you want to give me facts, I'll happily concede to you being correct, but as long as we're talking theory, anything is open to interpretation. (even my beliefs which evolve base off information and certain events)
you're an idiot.
also oil prices are driven by china and india.
also you're a complete idiot.
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XemnasXD wrote:
you're an idiot.
also oil prices are driven by china and india.
also you're a complete idiot.
Always good to see the opposition's facts laid out so plainly. I forgot how oil was being traded in Rupees & Renminbi...
If you don't think that the American government cannot effect the price of oil inside it's own boarders, than you're a bigger idiot than you seem to think I am. The taxes and regulations inside the U.S. are just as big a factor as the national market, when it comes to shooting yourself in the foot and buying from Saudis and other oil rich counties. We could easily bring the price of gas down just by drilling more of our own supply.
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 9841 Location: US - Illidan
Fiction wrote:
XemnasXD wrote:
you're an idiot.
also oil prices are driven by china and india.
also you're a complete idiot.
Always good to see the opposition's facts laid out so plainly. I forgot how oil was being traded in Rupees & Renminbi...
If you don't think that the American government cannot effect the price of oil inside it's own boarders, than you're a bigger idiot than you seem to think I am. The taxes and regulations inside the U.S. are just as big a factor as the national market, when it comes to shooting yourself in the foot and buying from Saudis and other oil rich counties. We could easily bring the price of gas down just by drilling more of our own supply.
you do realize that we're drilling more on our own land than we have ever done before? We're pulling out more natural gas in the US than at any point in history. Whats your reaction to this information.
WE'RE NOT DRILLING ENOUGH BECAUSE OF OBAMA!
that's why you're an idiot. Gas prices will remain high and will probably only increase. This is the new normal. There are other countries in the world now that are using fuel just as aggressively as we are. The goal at this point is not to hoard as much oil as possible. It's to remove your need for an unsustainable environmentally damaging and costly product. That's why China is investing so much money into solar and wind technology and the reason we aren't is because about 50% of our population keeps on screaming JUST DRILL MORE! And you idiots actually believe that is the solution.
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Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 5168 Location: Palmdale, CA
I voted just now....for everything except President. I refuse to vote for either candidate so instead I chose to fill in a name, and wrote "We The People"
_________________ Speak the truth, even if your voice shakes.
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 2147 Location: Dead.(No Longer With Us)
XemnasXD wrote:
Fiction wrote:
XemnasXD wrote:
you're an idiot.
also oil prices are driven by china and india.
also you're a complete idiot.
Always good to see the opposition's facts laid out so plainly. I forgot how oil was being traded in Rupees & Renminbi...
If you don't think that the American government cannot effect the price of oil inside it's own boarders, than you're a bigger idiot than you seem to think I am. The taxes and regulations inside the U.S. are just as big a factor as the national market, when it comes to shooting yourself in the foot and buying from Saudis and other oil rich counties. We could easily bring the price of gas down just by drilling more of our own supply.
you do realize that we're drilling more on our own land than we have ever done before? We're pulling out more natural gas in the US than at any point in history. Whats your reaction to this information.
WE'RE NOT DRILLING ENOUGH BECAUSE OF OBAMA!
that's why you're an idiot. Gas prices will remain high and will probably only increase. This is the new normal. There are other countries in the world now that are using fuel just as aggressively as we are. The goal at this point is not to hoard as much oil as possible. It's to remove your need for an unsustainable environmentally damaging and costly product. That's why China is investing so much money into solar and wind technology and the reason we aren't is because about 50% of our population keeps on screaming JUST DRILL MORE! And you idiots actually believe that is the solution.
Your theory is filled with generalizations and assumptions... I've worked in the pipeline and also the oil field business, I know what goes on.. Hell I'm from Houston, I've gotten the chance to be involved in most aspect of the business when it comes to producing and selling the crude oil.
You talk about renewable energy, and assume just because I think there are too many taxes and regulations on oil, it means I don't think we should be trying to find new ways to produce energy. It's a complete generalization, and you truly show how ignorant you are, and how terrible your debating skills are.. I'm a big supporter of building nuclear power plants, more natural gas technology and even personal solar panels. I just believe the market should control which technologies thrive and not the government. They've already propped certain failing energy alternatives up and wasted billions..
Even something as small as home ownership will teach you, you need to do more than just "DRILL BABY DRILL".. I have my own home, -I'm quiet the handy man- and I have made damn sure to take every step possible to keep it energy efficient. Everything from upgrading windows, insulation, appliances, heat&air, and even made sure it's air tight.
I digress... I'm not sure how we even got on the subject of energy or oil, but you've made it perfectly apparent how you operate on emotion and not rationality. Instead of having a factual discussion, you let your emotions feed your flame and you see fit to make assumptions about people you clearly know nothing about. You can even go back and read my previous post and see how wrong your silly childish argument hold true.
.curve wrote:
I voted just now....for everything except President. I refuse to vote for either candidate so instead I chose to fill in a name, and wrote "We The People"
Idk what state you're in, but you still had other choices, like, the libertarian party, the constitutionalists party, and even the GREEN party!
So Fiction what do you think about the shitload of government subsidies & tax breaks for oil companies? Exxon says they are necessary cause or else the corporations wouldnt be able to fund finding new oil/gas fields Even as they post record profits and the highest compared to any other industry.. Funny how they showed record profits in 2008, 2011 while gas was 4$, and blamed "government regulations"
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Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 9841 Location: US - Illidan
Fiction wrote:
Your theory is filled with generalizations and assumptions... I've worked in the pipeline and also the oil field business, I know what goes on.. Hell I'm from Houston, I've gotten the chance to be involved in most aspect of the business when it comes to producing and selling the crude oil.
What was that point of this paragraph? So you worked there, is that supposed to mean something? Nothing i said was untrue. I'm sorry but the fact is that we are drilling more on US land than ever before. So your argument about how we could bring the price of oil down by drilling more is void because that is clearly not the solution, otherwise prices would have dropped. I'm glad you have a front row seat to witness how void your argument is. That's something i'll keep in mind going forward.
Fiction wrote:
You talk about renewable energy, and assume just because I think there are too many taxes and regulations on oil, it means I don't think we should be trying to find new ways to produce energy. It's a complete generalization, and you truly show how ignorant you are, and how terrible your debating skills are.
I never said anything about taxes or oil regulation. I said China and India are the driving forces of oil prices around the world, nothing seems to be changing that. So I don't know where you even pulled this from but it's cute i guess.
Fiction wrote:
I'm a big supporter of building nuclear power plants, more natural gas technology and even personal solar panels. I just believe the market should control which technologies thrive and not the government. They've already propped certain failing energy alternatives up and wasted billions..
There are two things wrong here though. The first is that the american oil industry would not exist without the subsides the government gives them to stay competitive. The same with coal and natural gas. So the gov't is already deciding which technologies thrive, they have been for decades, they choose oil and oil wasn't complaining then but now oil is complaining. I don't know why because oil is still raking in massive profits that the taxpayers don't really get back but thats oil i guess.
The second is that little nugget at the end there. That the gov't is wasting billions on failed alternatives which isn't true. Of the 63 alternative energy businesses that were given money only 5 failed. Those aren't really bad odds when it comes to new investment technology. Anyone who owns a business will tell you that that kind of investment is a winner. If wall street had those kinds of odds they'd be trillionaires. So yeah. 5/63 isn't a huge waste of gov't money. Granted it's money that won't be going to oil but somehow i think between the other billions we give them they'll manage.
Fiction wrote:
Even something as small as home ownership will teach you, you need to do more than just "DRILL BABY DRILL".. I have my own home, -I'm quiet the handy man- and I have made damn sure to take every step possible to keep it energy efficient. Everything from upgrading windows, insulation, appliances, heat&air, and even made sure it's air tight.
I'm a big boy. I have a house and i pay bills and i go to work in car at an office. I can fix it all!
That's all I got out of that.
Fiction wrote:
I digress... I'm not sure how we even got on the subject of energy or oil, but you've made it perfectly apparent how you operate on emotion and not rationality. Instead of having a factual discussion, you let your emotions feed your flame and you see fit to make assumptions about people you clearly know nothing about. You can even go back and read my previous post and see how wrong your silly childish argument hold true.
ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
we're back to you being a complete idiot. The facts say oil gets tons of money from the gov't so you've got a double standard. The facts say that explosion of the Chinese and Indian market is gobbling up resources faster than ever before. The facts say that the gov't has made some very smart investments in alternative energy technology. The facts say that we're drilling more here than ever before. The facts say that more drilling won't help. The facts say your pipeline won't help.
You are in a constant state of digression. Please digress back into whatever intellectual void you crawled out of and leave the good people of the world alone. Free of your idiocy.
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Great talking points you've manage to compile.. I'd start dissecting your argument and spin them to fit my points, but I don't need to.
Spoiler!
Quote:
you do realize that we're drilling more on our own land than we have ever done before? We're pulling out more natural gas in the US than at any point in history. Whats your reaction to this information.
WE'RE NOT DRILLING ENOUGH BECAUSE OF OBAMA!
that's why you're an idiot. Gas prices will remain high and will probably only increase. This is the new normal. There are other countries in the world now that are using fuel just as aggressively as we are. The goal at this point is not to hoard as much oil as possible. It's to remove your need for an unsustainable environmentally damaging and costly product. That's why China is investing so much money into solar and wind technology and the reason we aren't is because about 50% of our population keeps on screaming JUST DRILL MORE! And you idiots actually believe that is the solution.
Here is your comment I was replying to, since you've obviously forgotten what you said. My reply was in response to you making the assumption that I was for big oil, and against alternatives, and then I lightly touched on the fact that the U.S. still has control over prices in it's boarders. So if anyone's argument is void, it would have to be the idiot that can't even keep his context straight. You made a point about China and India, then you went on to attack me with assumptions, my post was in response to your attack, and you take my entire response as a reply to your one factual statement. You get a cookie for being able to spin just like the rest of the bloggers.
Anywho, to assume just because we have more drilling operations going on here than we have had in history, and oil prices aren't falling, is kind of a skewed argument, and it's a fallacy I'm sure you love using. You're trying to make a direct link between the two, when there are a lot more factors in the equation. So drilling more oil from our own natural resources doesn't necessarily mean it will not have an effect on our oil prices. Either way we're working off a retroactive scale of inflation.
Also about the subsidies and tax breaks, and how the government is somehow keeping these businesses a float. What business these days doesn't get subsidies and tax breaks? Even households get some sort of subsidies or tax break. The way tax laws are written, this is the nature of the game. To go as far and say that this is the reason oil can even compete in America is kind farfetched.
... but just to make sure I'm getting your theory... If you sell something for 100 bucks, I tell you, we normally would take 40% of your profit, but since you're such a good guy, I'll let you off with 35% from your profit, and then at the end of the year I give you 10 dollars because you conducted your business in a reasonable way. Through this intervention, I've made it possible for you to survive? Now how exactly does that work out? Excuse me for getting this confused, again, I didn't study under Krugman.
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 9841 Location: US - Illidan
Fiction wrote:
Great talking points you've manage to compile.. I'd start dissecting your argument and spin them to fit my points, but I don't need to.
Spoiler!
Quote:
you do realize that we're drilling more on our own land than we have ever done before? We're pulling out more natural gas in the US than at any point in history. Whats your reaction to this information.
WE'RE NOT DRILLING ENOUGH BECAUSE OF OBAMA!
that's why you're an idiot. Gas prices will remain high and will probably only increase. This is the new normal. There are other countries in the world now that are using fuel just as aggressively as we are. The goal at this point is not to hoard as much oil as possible. It's to remove your need for an unsustainable environmentally damaging and costly product. That's why China is investing so much money into solar and wind technology and the reason we aren't is because about 50% of our population keeps on screaming JUST DRILL MORE! And you idiots actually believe that is the solution.
Here is your comment I was replying to, since you've obviously forgotten what you said. My reply was in response to you making the assumption that I was for big oil, and against alternatives, and then I lightly touched on the fact that the U.S. still has control over prices in it's boarders. So if anyone's argument is void, it would have to be the idiot that can't even keep his context straight. You made a point about China and India, then you went on to attack me with assumptions, my post was in response to your attack, and you take my entire response as a reply to your one factual statement. You get a cookie for being able to spin just like the rest of the bloggers.
Anywho, to assume just because we have more drilling operations going on here than we have had in history, and oil prices aren't falling, is kind of a skewed argument, and it's a fallacy I'm sure you love using. You're trying to make a direct link between the two, when there are a lot more factors in the equation. So drilling more oil from our own natural resources doesn't necessarily mean it will not have an effect on our oil prices. Either way we're working off a retroactive scale of inflation.
Also about the subsidies and tax breaks, and how the government is somehow keeping these businesses a float. What business these days doesn't get subsidies and tax breaks? Even households get some sort of subsidies or tax break. The way tax laws are written, this is the nature of the game. To go as far and say that this is the reason oil can even compete in America is kind farfetched.
... but just to make sure I'm getting your theory... If you sell something for 100 bucks, I tell you, we normally would take 40% of your profit, but since you're such a good guy, I'll let you off with 35% from your profit, and then at the end of the year I give you 10 dollars because you conducted your business in a reasonable way. Through this intervention, I've made it possible for you to survive? Now how exactly does that work out? Excuse me for getting this confused, again, I didn't study under Krugman.
Wow i really have to do this.
Xemnas: calls Fiction an idiot, says that China and India drive gas prices Fiction: Replies that taxes and regulations are keeping prices high and that "We could easily bring the price of gas down just by drilling more of our own supply." Xemnas: calls Fiction an idiot and says that because we're already drilling more than ever drilling more is not the solution. I propose that the solution is alternative energies and that we are behind in their development because of the mentality that we can mine, pump, drill our way out of this problem. Fiction: Responds by saying he supports gas and nuclear power, one of which isn't renewable and the other is not really considered renewable by most scientific organizations, and solar. Goes on to say he feels like the gov't should not decide which markets should thrive. That he worked on oil fields. That he owns a home. And that Xemnas is emotional.[note that nothing here contradicts any of the points that Xemnas has brought up] Xemnas: Once again points out that more drilling has not solved the oil crisis. Points out that oil recieve's tons of gov't money. Points out the success rate gov't investments in alternative energy. Also calls Fiction an idiot.
So that's been the flow of information. correct me if i'm wrong but it looks like i chastise you for being an idiot. you respond. I poke holes in your terrible response. then you respond opening up more places for me to poke holes. And here we are now with you whining about something. I don't even know what the first paragraph is about tbh. But I will continue to poke holes on your shitty arguments.
Fiction wrote:
Anywho, to assume just because we have more drilling operations going on here than we have had in history, and oil prices aren't falling, is kind of a skewed argument, and it's a fallacy I'm sure you love using. You're trying to make a direct link between the two, when there are a lot more factors in the equation. So drilling more oil from our own natural resources doesn't necessarily mean it will not have an effect on our oil prices. Either way we're working off a retroactive scale of inflation.
How is that a skewed argument or a fallacy. Do you even know how to use those words. Here's what a skewed argument looks like
-Saying drilling more on US soil will easily bring down gas prices. -Saying that the price of gas and the amount of drilling we do on our soil are not directly linked.
Your first statement started all of this. The last one is from the post you just made. They do not match up with each other. Either drilling more is correlated to price reduction or it's not. But you are arguing both in the same thread.
Quote:
Also about the subsidies and tax breaks, and how the government is somehow keeping these businesses a float. What business these days doesn't get subsidies and tax breaks? Even households get some sort of subsidies or tax break. The way tax laws are written, this is the nature of the game. To go as far and say that this is the reason oil can even compete in America is kind farfetched.
If it's so farfetched why do oil companies say they won't be able to compete if we take these subsidies away? Also there's a difference between getting a tax break because you're a low income family with 5 kids and getting a tax break while you pull in record profits during a recession. If you don't see the difference or who clearly needs a break more then you're an idiot.
Quote:
... but just to make sure I'm getting your theory... If you sell something for 100 bucks, I tell you, we normally would take 40% of your profit, but since you're such a good guy, I'll let you off with 35% from your profit, and then at the end of the year I give you 10 dollars because you conducted your business in a reasonable way. Through this intervention, I've made it possible for you to survive? Now how exactly does that work out? Excuse me for getting this confused, again, I didn't study under Krugman.
Look if you dont' want the subsidies get rid of them. Thats 40 billion dollars that can go to something else. Like education..
so people don't turn out to be idiots...
...
..like you
_________________ signatures by Hostage Co. <3 ~PoP is DEAD! My sTyLe is Supa-Flat!!~
Obama wins Not sure if i want him to win the rest of the states & win by a large margin or lose all of em, lose the popular votes and watch the hysteria that follows
Al Gore and Kerry both got like 90% of black vote in 2000/2004, alot of the rest went to Nader, so to say black people are voting democrat just cause their candidate is a half black guy is retarded
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I kinda feel bad for romney watching the concession, same as i felt for mccain in 2008. Feel like they were both moderates, too bad for the tea party and Fox news
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Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 9841 Location: US - Illidan
They were moderates once. But to win the republican primary you have to go all in so things they were once moderates on they had to take a complete turn around and alienate a lot of other people. They're not moderates anymore by a long shot which is a shame for McCain, **** romney though he can diaf.
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Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 2147 Location: Dead.(No Longer With Us)
Spoiler!
XemnasXD wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Great talking points you've manage to compile.. I'd start dissecting your argument and spin them to fit my points, but I don't need to.
Quote:
you do realize that we're drilling more on our own land than we have ever done before? We're pulling out more natural gas in the US than at any point in history. Whats your reaction to this information.
WE'RE NOT DRILLING ENOUGH BECAUSE OF OBAMA!
that's why you're an idiot. Gas prices will remain high and will probably only increase. This is the new normal. There are other countries in the world now that are using fuel just as aggressively as we are. The goal at this point is not to hoard as much oil as possible. It's to remove your need for an unsustainable environmentally damaging and costly product. That's why China is investing so much money into solar and wind technology and the reason we aren't is because about 50% of our population keeps on screaming JUST DRILL MORE! And you idiots actually believe that is the solution.
Here is your comment I was replying to, since you've obviously forgotten what you said. My reply was in response to you making the assumption that I was for big oil, and against alternatives, and then I lightly touched on the fact that the U.S. still has control over prices in it's boarders. So if anyone's argument is void, it would have to be the idiot that can't even keep his context straight. You made a point about China and India, then you went on to attack me with assumptions, my post was in response to your attack, and you take my entire response as a reply to your one factual statement. You get a cookie for being able to spin just like the rest of the bloggers.
Anywho, to assume just because we have more drilling operations going on here than we have had in history, and oil prices aren't falling, is kind of a skewed argument, and it's a fallacy I'm sure you love using. You're trying to make a direct link between the two, when there are a lot more factors in the equation. So drilling more oil from our own natural resources doesn't necessarily mean it will not have an effect on our oil prices. Either way we're working off a retroactive scale of inflation.
Also about the subsidies and tax breaks, and how the government is somehow keeping these businesses a float. What business these days doesn't get subsidies and tax breaks? Even households get some sort of subsidies or tax break. The way tax laws are written, this is the nature of the game. To go as far and say that this is the reason oil can even compete in America is kind farfetched.
... but just to make sure I'm getting your theory... If you sell something for 100 bucks, I tell you, we normally would take 40% of your profit, but since you're such a good guy, I'll let you off with 35% from your profit, and then at the end of the year I give you 10 dollars because you conducted your business in a reasonable way. Through this intervention, I've made it possible for you to survive? Now how exactly does that work out? Excuse me for getting this confused, again, I didn't study under Krugman.
Wow i really have to do this.
Xemnas: calls Fiction an idiot, says that China and India drive gas prices Fiction: Replies that taxes and regulations are keeping prices high and that "We could easily bring the price of gas down just by drilling more of our own supply." Xemnas: calls Fiction an idiot and says that because we're already drilling more than ever drilling more is not the solution. I propose that the solution is alternative energies and that we are behind in their development because of the mentality that we can mine, pump, drill our way out of this problem. Fiction: Responds by saying he supports gas and nuclear power, one of which isn't renewable and the other is not really considered renewable by most scientific organizations, and solar. Goes on to say he feels like the gov't should not decide which markets should thrive. That he worked on oil fields. That he owns a home. And that Xemnas is emotional.[note that nothing here contradicts any of the points that Xemnas has brought up] Xemnas: Once again points out that more drilling has not solved the oil crisis. Points out that oil recieve's tons of gov't money. Points out the success rate gov't investments in alternative energy. Also calls Fiction an idiot.
So that's been the flow of information. correct me if i'm wrong but it looks like i chastise you for being an idiot. you respond. I poke holes in your terrible response. then you respond opening up more places for me to poke holes. And here we are now with you whining about something. I don't even know what the first paragraph is about tbh. But I will continue to poke holes on your shitty arguments.
Fiction wrote:
Anywho, to assume just because we have more drilling operations going on here than we have had in history, and oil prices aren't falling, is kind of a skewed argument, and it's a fallacy I'm sure you love using. You're trying to make a direct link between the two, when there are a lot more factors in the equation. So drilling more oil from our own natural resources doesn't necessarily mean it will not have an effect on our oil prices. Either way we're working off a retroactive scale of inflation.
How is that a skewed argument or a fallacy. Do you even know how to use those words. Here's what a skewed argument looks like
-Saying drilling more on US soil will easily bring down gas prices. -Saying that the price of gas and the amount of drilling we do on our soil are not directly linked.
Your first statement started all of this. The last one is from the post you just made. They do not match up with each other. Either drilling more is correlated to price reduction or it's not. But you are arguing both in the same thread.
Quote:
Also about the subsidies and tax breaks, and how the government is somehow keeping these businesses a float. What business these days doesn't get subsidies and tax breaks? Even households get some sort of subsidies or tax break. The way tax laws are written, this is the nature of the game. To go as far and say that this is the reason oil can even compete in America is kind farfetched.
If it's so farfetched why do oil companies say they won't be able to compete if we take these subsidies away? Also there's a difference between getting a tax break because you're a low income family with 5 kids and getting a tax break while you pull in record profits during a recession. If you don't see the difference or who clearly needs a break more then you're an idiot.
Quote:
... but just to make sure I'm getting your theory... If you sell something for 100 bucks, I tell you, we normally would take 40% of your profit, but since you're such a good guy, I'll let you off with 35% from your profit, and then at the end of the year I give you 10 dollars because you conducted your business in a reasonable way. Through this intervention, I've made it possible for you to survive? Now how exactly does that work out? Excuse me for getting this confused, again, I didn't study under Krugman.
Look if you dont' want the subsidies get rid of them. Thats 40 billion dollars that can go to something else. Like education..
so people don't turn out to be idiots...
...
..like you
lol it's rinse and repeat with you, eh. I think you're-yet again-making more of the argument than what was there. The one factual thing you said was that the market was "driven" by china and india. I get, that's what you believe, and I don't disagree with it to a point. The only thing I had anything to say was about the assumptions you made... You can quit with the immature "You're an idiot".. I get it, you don't often get the validation you seek, so you wanna make this into a spectacle. Again... Point is... china and india can have an effect on our gas prices... but at the same time, the government can as well... GG this guy... I'm not even gonna bother reading the next grandstand argument this guy makes.
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Is there a reason I shouldn't be cynical about both parties? As someone who works for a living, I don't get any welfare checks, so why would I vote democrat? As someone that doesn't agree with policing the world and endless wars, why would I vote republican? As someone that disagrees with having my personal liberties stripped away, why would I want either party? I talk about what I know, you won't see me in an anime thread talking about Dragon Ball Z because I don't know shit about it, but I know enough about politics to rant on the subject for months... el oh el.. 
