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First, I think you mean statutory rape...If your 18+ and having sex with someone 17 and under it is statutory rape...if you're both below 17 and under its legal...this of course doesn't mean it isn't frowned upon...

Second, a successful relationship requires intimacy...you cannot build a successful relationship solely on emotional attachment anymore then you can build a successful relationship purely on sex...

People are complicated...and as easy and palatable as it is just to lump things into 2 categories...thats just not the way things work...love is much like a stained glass window...the kind you might see in a church...each piece adding to the whole...sex can be one or more of those pieces depending on how important physical contact is to you...as I said...people are complicated...

Third, true love is a negotiated partnership...2 complicated beings occupy the same place at the same time..sharing all they have...it takes a lot of work and effort to pull off successfully...

Unless your a gold digger...marriage is not meant to be a thing of convenience...

+1@ what catlike shark adn mario said
@ZeFrog
dam why arent u in my country i would enjoy talking whit you (if i recall ur from texas USA(read some where)..sry if i spelled it wrong)cant remember when i liked more how person thinks
@Nace
well u hit few rights but your point of veiw made whole lot of wrongs u ... focused your point of view on life and left out some things that Frog and 1211 mentioned

does that mean ur a vigin till u get married or were a virgin until u got married....

Or was a party animal who slept with everyone around until he/she found Jesus and was born again...

that could be true.....Nace which is it

That means I'm still a virgin, and it's basically no sex till after marriage.


Then what about morals? Or are you just going to go with your feelings? I'm sure most of your parents at that time would not have permitted it.


I said most, not everyone. I'm assuming obviously since this might be true for some people. You're assuming that it can 'well be love' also, so I don't see what's difference between your 'opinion' and mine here.


Are you going to believe you love someone, lie that you love someone just to have sex? I don't think so. If you're going to do that, you might as well get a prostitute.


That was implied actually.


Then you're basing your relation off of physical contact. Not all relationships need it, long-term relationships don't. If your boyfriend or girlfriend goes overseas or somewhere else, you now have lack of physical contact. Are you going to cheat on her? I doubt so.


??


Exactly.


Isn't that what I said above, that it's nearly impossible though not.


When you say love relationship do you mean relationship with sex? I'm confused.


Test each other in bed? What for? Please explain.


Even when you love someone you can still fall to desires. Maybe you're going to plan on a sex-free relationship, but your desire is to have sex.


You answered your own question when you said It's only wrong if you're basing it off of a sex free relationship. If you have morals.

Haven't you ever heard of Age of Consent laws?

seriously, anyone worth their salt should know that this varies widely on area, and statutory rape normally only applies to people over a certain age. for example, where I am, we have Romeo and Juliet laws, which means that anyone within a certain age of someone else is legal- so someone who's 17 could legally sleep with a 12 year old.

You should know what you're talking about before you say it, this is really basic knowledge (or maybe I'm just a pedo, but still)

And don't try to push your views on other people. Humans are animals, sex is just something we do.

EDIT:

BAD MOVE THAR. JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS MORALS THAT DIFFER FROM YOUR OWN DOESN'T MEAN THEY DON'T HAVE THEM. JUST BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIT IN WITH THE GUIDELINES MADE FOR YOU IN FAIRY TALES FROM A COUPLE THOUSAND YEARS AGO DOESN'T MAKE THEM IMMORAL. YOUR IDEAS OF MORALITY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE FLAWED. THERE IS MORALITY WITHOUT GODS, AND JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE SUCH A WEAK HUMAN BEING AS TO BE UNABLE TO CONTROL YOURSELF WITHOUT LISTENING TO STORIES INTENDED TO FRIGHTEN CHILDREN INTO SUBMISSION AS IF THEY WERE THE TRUTH DOES NOT MEAN THE REST OF US ARE.

Thank you.

im sorry but not even the large bold font could keep me reading that whole rant...i get it, theres no god and ppl suk at life....

but i agree with the morals things, they differ from person to person but you have to remember that society itself has morals. I mean im sure we can all agree that things like kiddie porn is immoral (i hope) but whether thats a personal decision or one influenced mostly by the world around you is a different story...Brave New World is a prime example of how moral and immoral is all perspective...but i digress.


@Zefrog im all down for poetic speech in writing i have a friend that writes wonderful emo poetry but GRASS is GRASS its struggling no more or less than anything else in nature....i seriously doubt that you find all things in life so amazing its like that weird kid from American Beauty who loves his bag....everything you said about grass has almost nothing to do with grass i could probably replace the world grass with gopher and it would all make sense.....i don't know if im just busting chops for the sake of it or because im tired and should be laying down.....either way its grass there are far more complex things to be in wonder at and if you spend that much thought on grass alone you defiantly don't have time to enjoy everything else....


summary: its grass...its depth only goes so far

feba, I said If you have morals. I did not say 'If you have Christian morals. So please read carefully before you waste 5 minutes typing something that makes no sense at all.

and I don't recall trying to force my views onto someone, so, please think and read clearly before you start your childish accusations.

Besides, humans aren't animals. If you want to have a chat on this, I can, just give me a screen name or something to contact you. I can show you at least 10 different ways in which we differ from animals. One small example is, animals are driven to reproduce and mate. A female arabian camel can pace the desert for 3 days non stop just looking for someone to mate with her, same with dogs. WE, however, can live without sex -- for pleasure (not including reproduction purposes), it's called abstinence. Anyone worth their salt should know that, but of course, you consider yourself an animal. So I should probably write a different explanation for a dog like you right?

And I only said that because I'm assuming that not everybody on here was doing it to reproduce, but merely for pleasure.

No, loosing your virginity means putting your thing in her thing, or vice versa, nothing else...

I stand corrected ofcourse u need to put it in just one time...no need to keep pushing after that first one...j/k ...but seriously yeah u lose your virginity after that first puch but its quite normal that u keep pushing and... eh u know so i tought thats naturaly to say sex
@Nace
As i already said your prob is focused ( i didnt want to say limited) point of view that is restrainting u from seeing "whole picture" i wont argue whit you becouse i understand str8 of your belifes and i dont think that i will achieve anything by argueing whit you....

...grass was an example...but you're arguing with me about how I see grass now...at some point...you're going to have to accept the fact that not everyone will see things the same way as you...

You didn't say Christian specifically, but by implying that ANYONE WITH MORALS WILL AGREE WITH YOUR (CHRISTIAN!) PERSPECTIVE IS WRONG.

Assuming that just because someone has morals means they will agree with you is WRONG. I have morals, but I don't think it's "wrong". Plenty of other people could say the same. Saying "If you have morals [you think such-and-such a thing is bad]" is like saying "If you believe in God, you think it's ok to molest little boys."- it might be true for SOME, but it's definitely not true for ALL.


Your point? Abstinence is caused by people that think nature is wrong, like yourself. Abstinence doesn't make us better than animals, if anything it makes us worse for denying the fact that we have bodies and purpose, abstinence is a matter of self-shame, not of any amazing difference.

The mental power to question might be unique to man- we cannot know. Sadly, that same mental power to question is the reason we make up stories to explain what we cannot explain with logical thinking- and why we can be so quick to defend them later. Dolphins can have sex for pleasure too, are you going to tell me they're on par with humans? Just because we have different mating rituals, or we might go longer without mating doesn't mean we aren't animals.

Humans wake up in the morning, we get food, we eat, we shit, we mate, and we go back to sleep. Now, yes, we might have mental power that makes us more distinct from other animals, but it's not like we're the only creatures that manage to make civilizations and societies. We cannot reproduce without sex, despite what your stories might tell you, we are the same as any animal when it comes down to it. Just because you put on clothes and cover yourself and have language doesn't mean you've stopped being an animal.

I don't need to argue this point though, even the most basic knowledge of biology would show you that humans are indeed animals. We might be the only animal capable of deciding what an animal is, placing a name to it, and realizing we are one, but that doesn't change the fact that we are.

EDIT: Oh, and before you say something about me not being able to control myself because I'm an animal, no. Self-Control doesn't make you human. You can train a dog to not bark when it wants to, to not eat food off the floor, to not beg- that is self-control too, but you would never say a trained dog (and admit it, society trains humans. anyone worth their salt would know about feral children if they're trying to debate this) is human. Just because you are an animal does not mean you cannot act civilized- it just means that you accept that humans are animals, and whatever mental advantages we might have doesn't mean we aren't fundamentally the same.

Human's are animals buddy, it's a scientific fact.

So what if you can compare us to another species and find dissimilair traits, because at the same time you can compare us to a different species and find many similair traits.

DOOD SEX IS NOT WRONG,,,,, you just need to be careful who you have it with. i have not had sex because the girls in my school are whinny spoiled brats where they try to have sex with ALL OF THE FOOTBALL PLAYERS. and i hate football ( i shouldnt have to say this, but no offense) i am poor ( my parents are not though lol) so all chicks wanna do is talk on the phone and they are self consous of the way they look *deep breath* and now im bored and i cant remember what i was talking about so latsers........... go away!

Twelweeleven, atleast now I know what that 12 is in your name, still gotta figure out that 11

But me myself, is still a virgin, I'm 14 btw.

o rly....i-I never thought of things that way...thank you...thank you for opening my eyes to the world...a world where grass is more than grass...



im not buying the buddha, I see all and realize im one with all, if you really saw things the way you see them i doubt you'd be spending your days playing an MMO and talking to ppl on a forum.....

srry about getting off topic guys




Humans are not the only animals that have sex for recreation and pleasure. Believe it or not Dolphins also mate for recreational purpose. And just like you can find a species of animal that practically lives to mate the same applies to ppl, every heard of nymphomania. People ARE animals like it or not. Nace whatever kind of superiority complex you have about humans should be disregarded. I would say ppl are equal to the common dog but hat would insult the dog seeing as dogs don't commit half the daily atrocities humans commit. I'd love to hear these other 10 things that "separate" humans from animals either pm them or reply but either way im positive i can break them all.

Twelweeleven, atleast now I know what that 12 is in your name, still gotta figure out that 11

But me myself, is still a virgin, I'm 14 btw.

Where'd you get "the Buddha" thing from?..."I see all and realize I'm one with all"...where are you getting this from?...And why wouldn't I play MMOs and go to forums?

How far are you willing to take my words out of context, or purposely misinterpret them in order to prove yet again that we don't see things the same way?

You are...and have been...the aggressor here...

Lol owned.

Also, Nace doesn't know what he's talking about. He's like "I didn't say christian morals". That has nothing to do with it, you said if you have morals, you'll think this. Morals aren't universal, I have morals, but I don't think you have to be married to have sex, or whatever. That's just an example, but you get it, right?



Owned yet again.

So, you have no morals right?
You think it's okay to lie? to steal? to kill? all for no reason?
That's what I thought. Morals don't just apply to sex, it applies to everything, whether you know it or not.

Feba, again, please read carefully.
I never said self-control doesn't make you an animal. I said humans can go prolonged periods, if any, without sex. Animals are driven to mate, we can choose.


Sure, anyone could say animals have a social structure too, but our social structure is far more complex than theirs. Do we operate on the same levels as animals? No, we rule over them. Does that put us on the same level? We can destroy them if we want to.

We don't train animals not to bark, eat food off the floor, to beg. That's an instinctive trait. We 'train' them not to through discipline. They bark, we put on one of those electric collars, and they learn through that. Humans have intuition, we can tell just by looking, learn just by hearing. We don't need discipline because our mind works differently. It's different for little kids, babies, because their mind isn't even fully developed yet. Try going into more complex biology, and actually study it. The most basic points of biology can show we are animals, yeah that's true, if you mean basic to the point where we're all made of cells and we breathe, eat, shit, and mate. But what else do we do besides that. We go to work, we can have conversations. I can go on, and on.

Don't just use one part of biology for your defense, but leave out the other part.

What I don't get is, if this conversation is between you and me, why do you like to slander my religion? Is your argument or thinking process so weak, that the only way you can feel like you've won some points is to start making fun of what I believe? In every single one of your posts so far, it has to contain some sort of slander about my religion. Leave that out of it, you're the one assuming that when I refer to something, I'm referring to Christian morals or what not. If you read my second post in response to TwelveEleven, I said;

Quit automatically assuming that everything after that has to do with Christianity. Obviously I've noticed that you, yourself am not a Christian, so I've stopped using things from religion that I know you wouldn't understand. Now you're just having a one-on-one conversation with me, leave my beliefs out of it. Stop using my religion to try to win some points. Argue with me, without my religion.


XemnasXD, ever look up the definition to your word, 'nymphomania'?
Definition; abnormally excessive and uncontrollable sexual desire in women.
You're seriously going to use that as your defense? So we all have abnormally excessive and uncontrollabe sexual desires right? Oh, and we're all women.

AGAIN, HUGE MISTAKE. My morals regarding one thing do not change my morals regarding another.

YOU ARE ASSUMING THAT MORALS = YOUR IDEALS. They are NOT.

Morals apply to every single thing you do, if you've got them, but they do NOT mean that one person's morals is the same as someone else is the same as another's. Again, saying that everyone with morals says such-and-such a thing is bad is as false as saying that everyone in the clergy molests little boys. It's simply *not true*, it is *not* what the majority believe, it was what a very few specific minds think.


Who's to say animals can't chose as well? Not *wanting* to refrain from something doesn't mean you can't. I *could* stop watching television, but it's not bad for me, so why would I?

There is *no* good reason to artificially inhibit yourself, except by misguided beliefs.


You don't know much at all about biology, do you? Have you ever seen the types of social interactions even *insects* have? Dogs? Chickens? Our social structure is no more complicated than theirs. There are plenty of tribes all over the planet that still live in fairly small groups, with little or no contact with the outside world. Yes, more modern places had governments, but that is a matter of managing a very large society, which animals don't tend to do.


Ah, egomaniacs and religious beliefs. I suppose you also believe that the Earth is the center of the universe, and that there's no life on other planets, as well? There's no scientific way to put humans above animals. Stop making unfounded claims based on your fairytale books, and make a real argument.


I suppose you've never been face to face with a bobcat, or a wolf, or a lion

From first hand experience, I can safely say that animals are NOT to be farked with. We have no more ability to destroy animals than we do the Earth. Yes, we can kill bits and pieces here and there, but not only would it be impossible to do real damage, but we'd screw ourselves over in the process.


And you're telling me animals can't do the same? I can almost certainly promise you that antelopes don't learn to run away from lions by trial and error. "Oh, I wonder what happens when that thing chases me down. Oh, I died! Shucks."

Children are trained for society. Be it peer pressure, media, discipline, or indoctrination, children are taught how to do what is considered good, and not do what is considered bad. Considering that any different than training your pup by giving him treats, smacking him with a newspaper, or having him raised by your more mature dog is just being ignorant.


Your point? Again, you seem to be vastly over estimating how advanced society is. Insects do the exact same things you're discussing. Sure, they do it on a more basic level, but they still do it. Given how many many times more complex our bodies are, we aren't very far beyond them at all.


What part am I leaving out, the research that was paid for by the Vatican?


Simply put, because you act like it's right in the face of overwhelming, provable evidence otherwise. Your entire argument is founded on religion. The belief that humans are above animals, that humans have a right to the planet, that anyone with morals would agree with you is based on your little bedtime stories. Quite frankly, I'm happy to live and let live, as long as people aren't being retarded about it. My families are Seventh Day Adventist and Jehovah's Witnesses, believe me I've dealt with much worse than you-- and on the flip side, I'm perfectly happy to never bring it up to people that do the same. If you intend to talk about things as if they were fact though, be prepared to get shot down.


Is your argument so weak that you have to make an ad hominem attack to try to regain yourself?


Again, if you can make a post that is based in fact instead of your beloved fiction, I won't have a need to comment on it.


Because YOU DO. Saying that you'll think something is wrong "if you have morals" IS REFERRING TO YOUR OWN BELIEFS. I think you could ask most of the people here if they have morals, and they'd say yes-- and if they think morals had to agree with a certain viewpoint, and they'd say no.


Excuse me? I, like most people who aren't religious, understand more about it than most of the people that practice it. I'd like to know what I "wouldn't understand" that would help prove your case-- except bible quotations that would clearly show that you have no basis for what you're saying except a book of fables.


Again, this is impossible, when all your arguments are from a religious base. This is like "tell me how to make a cake, without naming any ingredients."- it's ludicrous to think that's even possible.



And speaking on his behalf, his point was that not all humans CAN control sexual urges like you claim we can, not that we all can't.

lahg.

ddp

excess.

When did I say that?
Not that it matters to me, but perhaps it will help you understand what I mean if I say that I don't think it's right to do those things without reason. With reason however is a totally different situation.
To lie to save your own ass is fine by me , but I realize it's not fine by many others.
To steal should be to save yourself and loved ones, but only in times of great need.
To kill, well, I figure I would only kill in 2 situations. 1, if someone murdered my best friend, I would kill him/her. Or if someone murdered, or severely dishonored my wife, then I'd kill him/her too.



That's exactly what I said, dipshit.

Nace, you remind me of my sister. But to a much lesser extent.

When we argue, she'll say crap, and then after she's been proven wrong, many times, she will pretend that she was saying the opposite. It bugs the shit out of me, but it doesn't seem to be so bad in your case. But you're getting pretty close.

By the way, I swore alot on the post. Usually I don't do it that more, nor do I care. But I hate it when someone talks a certain way, and you don't like it, but they continue to talk that way. I figure you might have taken offence, but maybe not. Just wanted to say sorry for it, but I'm kinda pissed right now, for half-arbitrary reasons too, so it's kind of unjustified.

Morals are not just my ideals. I'm basing it off of morals we all have, not MY IDEALS. Am I the only one who thinks it's wrong to kill, and steal? We all share morals. Try looking up the definition so you can attack my perspective correctly.

- Morals : of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong.

Where does it say based on your ideals/beliefs? NO WHERE. It says rules of right conduct, not rules on your ideals for distinctions between right and wrong. Is the law someone else's idea or belief that we all just follow? Do you randomly attack someone on the street and rape them or steal someone's purse? You might say it's self-control, but ask yourself, why are you refraining from doing that? Because you don't want to get arrested? Well if in your perspective it's okay, then you shouldn't be worried about getting arrested, after all, it's just a moral, and a moral is an ideal or belief.



Again, you missed my point completely. I wasn't referring to choices overall, I was referring to sex and mating itself. Animals HAVE to do it in heat. When we're 'horny' or going through puberty, we can refrain from having sex.



You just answered your own question. We can form governments. You don't need a 'very large society' to even form a government. Tribes themselves have some sort of government also, ants for instance just have a queen, workers, guards, and whatever else you want to add. But the queen just lays eggs, and workers carry them, that's it. The queen doesn't tell everyone what to do, or make political or critical decisions.



Oh, and I suppose you know that there's life on other planets just because scientists THINK they have discovered dry riverbeds on Mars? Or you've actually seen an UFO up close and actually witnessed it all?



I suppose you've never heard of a gun. Or extinction.



That's instinct, and animals have to follow it. If you're standing in front of a train, you most likely will run or jump out of the way, or you can fight your instinct, and stay there. It can be done. It's called suicide.



Can you give me some examples please, on how our society is the same as theirs.



There you go again. Research is still research, even if it's paid for by the Vatican, so say what you want. Maybe Human Behavior? If you've actually studied it, you might know a thing or two.



Man's spirtuality. The ability to choose a religion and worship it. Animals don't worship rocks or each other. Human beings can, and do. We are they only ones with organized religions. Thus, this shows that humans have a desire for a relationship with a superior being. Humans through history have displayed it, whether Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, whatever, any religion, big or small.

I could go on, but it would involve going into Creation itself, but then that would be another big debate. We can have it if you want, just tell me so, and I'll argue with you on that too. Without, using Bible references.

Please just leave your AIM or MSN. We can communicate at a much faster rate, and I don't need to keep checking back.



So we all have that abnormality..... right.

16 and I was totally stoned

But woww it was great.

your a prick.
that and I resent you for having a name that comes before mine alphabetically. So you can go die in a fire.