Silkroad Online Forums

A community forum for the free online game Silkroad Online. Discuss Silkroad Online, read up on guides, and build your character and skills.

Faq Search Members Chat  Register Profile Login

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 82 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:43 pm 
Veteran Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3604
Location:
Venus
Though for right now i'm not going to bother, and i understand wanting to keep the forums clean how ever, Joymax is not immortal, and after they drop the game a private server will be the only way to ever to play the game again, provided they have enough people playing them to develop them all the way. Key-J saying due to their unstable nature, have you seen the real game? They are bugs in private servers, its what makes a real server still preferable, how ever they are being worked on to be fixed, by dis allowing and hindering people from getting information on these reduces the amount of people who will actually try the privates. And fewer people trying means less support, and less chance of the development continuing till complete.

Do what ever you want with this thread lock i dont' care, i just wanted to say what i saw. Censorship isn't always a good thing. And i beleive that the private servers should receive a good amount of support or else they wont' continue, and the game will die with joymax, not saying they are hurting right now, but they won't last forever with poor support even the boters will get bored of it after they dont' see enough people left to actually play with, and when that happens the game will become unprofitable, and closed. With a private server people would have the option to keep playing. The role of a private server on free game isn't always defiance its preservation.

_________________
Image
A man once said, "Fear is contagious". So then the same must hold true for courage.
The Roar of a Crowd begins with one man.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:44 pm 
Banned User
Offline

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5492
Location:
Venus
great post. I completely agree.

_________________
<<banned from SRF for rules violations: being a constant problem. -SG>>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:47 pm 
Common Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 180
Location:
Gaia
i agree too!

private servers are the only way to play SRO after joymax

_________________
Reddv 8x Wizard/Cleric


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:49 pm 
Veteran Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3820
Location: Whisperwind [US-PVE]
reddv wrote:
i agree too!

private servers are the only way to play SRO after joymax

Unless JM sells the license to another company

_________________
Image
Spoiler!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:50 pm 
Common Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 180
Location:
Gaia
the_wicked wrote:
reddv wrote:
i agree too!

private servers are the only way to play SRO after joymax

Unless JM sells the license to another company


that's true..

_________________
Reddv 8x Wizard/Cleric


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:59 pm 
Ex-Staff
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2979
Location: Playin' Talkin'
Foudre, i do see your point. Less users means less (or slower) improvement. But this particular private server is NOT legit. This topic explains really well why this server is not legit.

To mention our statement again:
Quote:
SRF cannot and will not support any server run by a company which sells bots and gold. We will not EVER condone a private server which allows you to buy silk which lines the pockets of those who have destroyed the official servers.


I hope you understand <3

_________________
Image


Niyoke wrote:
err i know ium soudning weird but .. Mr Bow is my p.e teacher .. ARE YOU MR BOW? LMAO ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:02 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4377
Location: De Dutch
If SRO will be run by blizzard or something then it will be great, even by the owners of GuildWars, but till then we gotta do it with Joymax :x

How much I hate this game. It is a great game, only bots ruin the game..

_________________
I cannot sing the blues...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:08 pm 
Regular Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 312
Location: somewhere
i was shocked how many bots there is...i use to play this game couple years ago and there still was bots but they didnt over populate the game..now its just not funny anymore. Before people would be scared admitting they bot..but now there is ppl only recruiting bots with globals!!. This game had soo much potential..but joymax ..... it up..i really do hope blizzard or another company buys it off thhem. I am all for one for this Private server.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:08 pm 
Frequent Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1459
Location:
Alps
you know as good as the private servers seem, they really aren't

Which is why it sad to say that i still prefer it over the actual servers run by joymax

I do see the compromising position this puts srf in, considering that the game source was (most likely) leaked and now the stolen copies are basically making profit for the thieves (silk/level/gold/even bot has to/can be bought)

_________________
Image

Mysterious Death Desert
Mysterious desert that causes mysterious deaths


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:08 pm 
Active Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 634
Location:
Oasis
put the blame where it should be, its not the bots, its JM. They and they alone have ruined this game by being a bunch of greedy, corrupt hypocrites.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:12 pm 
Addicted Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2547
Location: The Netherlands
the point of a private server is to at least not be like joymax, first thing i found when i connected to it where goldbots.

nothing changes at all.
in almost any other forums people scream for bots for the private server, what everyone is doing is simply moving to problem and destroying even more "nice" we are simply destroying this game and the people behind are only cashing as much as they can before its too late that is the same with the private server.

i hope anyone else who is working on another private server will learn from this, but i am afraid situation will be the same everyone simply want money :cry:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:13 pm 
Ex-Staff
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2979
Location: Playin' Talkin'
NightSky wrote:
i was shocked how many bots there is...i use to play this game couple years ago and there still was bots but they didnt over populate the game..now its just not funny anymore. Before people would be scared admitting they bot..but now there is ppl only recruiting bots with globals!!. This game had soo much potential..but joymax ..... it up..i really do hope blizzard or another company buys it off thhem. I am all for one for this Private server.


Even if that private server actively promotes the same bots you HATE?(unlike Joymax, who is just intentionally lazy)

_________________
Image


Niyoke wrote:
err i know ium soudning weird but .. Mr Bow is my p.e teacher .. ARE YOU MR BOW? LMAO ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:14 pm 
Frequent Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1459
Location:
Alps
the bot population is controlled on the private servers to paying customers.

which is by no means a good thing...but it gets alot more done than joymax

if joymax regulated bots (cuz they sure don't ban them) then at least I would be able to get on the servers


also 10x exp is really nice :)

_________________
Image

Mysterious Death Desert
Mysterious desert that causes mysterious deaths


Last edited by shoto on Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:15 pm 
Regular Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 312
Location: somewhere
^ AGreed. they have become so worried about there silk sales they forget to Accualy help the ppl out. I think JoyMax should of just made you buy the game instead of free online.. If we had to buy it say for 50$..then mabye joymax would accually get a decent hack prevention system and start worrying about customer support like Blizzard or other companys do.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:21 pm 
Veteran Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3604
Location:
Venus
i can see your point i dindt' know it was ran by a bot/ gold company

how ever you do know a private server is built apon the client to guess how the server should interact, and tweaked till it works, the only copy write problems being the client, and the likeness.

Whats the point of having to pay for silk on a private server, thats a flagrant defiance, a non profit private server wouldn't' bother me but the fact they are making money off of it, while the real game is still running is illegal, even joy max will take offense to that.

I can see why you are hesitant to make a stance either way toward then.
The fact that one would bot the 10x server is sad.

how ever i still don't think censorship is the best way to deal with it, i wonder which compnay is really running it, i'm curious how well they hid the private server files, if they weren't thinking it might just be easy to download and take a copy, but after a google i get all these odd ball site i dont' trust talking about it.

i'm not sure what to think about this server exactly now. they ruined the game to begin with, and now they want to run it, thru a sort of under ground coup. Part of me hopes they get prosecuted for this, the other half realized the other group that has been workign on their own private server (though with less success maybe they've given up) might back down if they see that happen.

a private server had to be run by a gold company huh, what are the odds

_________________
Image
A man once said, "Fear is contagious". So then the same must hold true for courage.
The Roar of a Crowd begins with one man.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:30 pm 
Frequent Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1284
Location:
Xian
MrBow wrote:
Foudre, i do see your point. Less users means less (or slower) improvement. But this particular private server is NOT legit. This topic explains really well why this server is not legit.

To mention our statement again:
Quote:
SRF cannot and will not support any server run by a company which sells bots and gold. We will not EVER condone a private server which allows you to buy silk which lines the pockets of those who have destroyed the official servers.


I hope you understand <3

Well excluding the bot part of the 1st private server.
They spent time and effort creating or possibly stealing it. They are the only ones that have been able to make a private server(surprisingly works just like an official server). They have something others want and dream of an alternative. Also, supply and demand. Theres only 1 source for a private server and the demand is extremely high. People will pay to support the server/get better items. With 3,000ish people on a server the bandwidth cost would be really high. Without the support, the entire project would go to waste and server will quickly die.
Id would rather not let the progress of someone else's hard work go to waste. As they get enough support, they might possibly release the program to make your own. Currently, silkroad/joymax will never live up to what people really want. A completely fun, legitimate, eventful, and fully supported server.

Quote:
SRF cannot and will not support any server run by a company which sells bots and gold. We will not EVER condone a private server which allows you to buy silk.

Sounds like joymax to me.

_________________
Image
Image


Last edited by MiKe 51-50 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:31 pm 
Banned User
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1428
Location:
Aege
Not interested in cripled private servers that can die any day. you grind to lv80 and server shut down, you try
an other you grind to lv60 it gets shut down.
Joymax server is running stable and it will do so for the next 5 years for sure.

This year aion starts with way beyond the quality of sro, and l8r even better games come.

Only way I look at private servers if i run them myself on my network, just like I do with lineage2
for testing new versions.

_________________
Be straight be proud of it, don't end up like them:
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:43 pm 
Veteran Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3604
Location:
Venus
MiKe 51-50 wrote:
MrBow wrote:
Foudre, i do see your point. Less users means less (or slower) improvement. But this particular private server is NOT legit. This topic explains really well why this server is not legit.

To mention our statement again:
Quote:
SRF cannot and will not support any server run by a company which sells bots and gold. We will not EVER condone a private server which allows you to buy silk which lines the pockets of those who have destroyed the official servers.


I hope you understand <3

Well excluding the bot part of the 1st private server.
They spent time and effort creating or possibly stealing it. They are the only ones that have been able to make a private server(surprisingly works just like an official server). They have something others want and dream of an alternative. Also, supply and demand. Theres only 1 source for a private server and the demand is extremely high. People will pay to support the server/get better items. With 3,000ish people on a server the bandwidth cost would be really high. Without the support, the entire project would go to waste and server will quickly die.
Id would rather not let the progress of someone else's hard work go to waste. As they get enough support, they might possibly release the program to make your own. Currently, silkroad/joymax will never live up to what people really want. A completely fun, legitimate, eventful, and fully supported server.

Quote:
SRF cannot and will not support any server run by a company which sells bots and gold. We will not EVER condone a private server which allows you to buy silk.

Sounds like joymax to me.


true they do need the money to run the thing, still private servers on wow had options to help support by donating and money via advertising. Not paying to bot on them or buying gold

and who said there are gold bots on their server, why would they need to run gold bots on their own server, can't they just create the gold? are you sure they weren't just normal bots

_________________
Image
A man once said, "Fear is contagious". So then the same must hold true for courage.
The Roar of a Crowd begins with one man.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:46 pm 
Forum God
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8834
Location: Age of Wushu
JM: Im dying. My body is infested with bots. I wont last much longer ~
JM: pSRO, let's die together!
pSRO: no way, I dont want to die. I dont want to go in grave with u... Im too healthy to die.
SRF: I dont know. U are a part of JM so u should go with him. Go in grave now :twisted:

_________________
Playing Age of Wushu, dota IMBA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:20 pm 
Ex-Staff
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2979
Location: Playin' Talkin'
MiKe 51-50 wrote:
They are the only ones that have been able to make a private server(surprisingly works just like an official server).

Don’t worry, the source will be leaked. Future will have a lot of private servers.

MiKe 51-50 wrote:
to what people really want. A completely fun, legitimate, eventful, and fully supported server.

This private server is not what you would call ‘legitimate’, is it?

_________________
Image


Niyoke wrote:
err i know ium soudning weird but .. Mr Bow is my p.e teacher .. ARE YOU MR BOW? LMAO ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:03 pm 
Regular Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 299
Location:
Eos
Joymax's legitimacy is debatable too.

_________________
Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:21 pm 
Regular Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 335
Location:
Odin
Deacon wrote:
If SRO will be run by blizzard or something then it will be great, even by the owners of GuildWars, but till then we gotta do it with Joymax :x

How much I hate this game. It is a great game, only bots ruin the game..


I feel u. agreed with sorrow :/

_________________
___________________________________________________

LVL 5x Heavy INT S/S Server: Saturn(Bah) Status: Not Active
LVL 80 Wizard/Cleric. Not Pure. Server: Odin Status: Active


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:26 am 
Forum Legend
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6816
Location: Anything goes
This private server is a waste of time.
Just wait for the next private servers, from ppl that can speak english and eventually an emu will be released.
Then someone nice will be able to run a server where not everybody can play, no bots are alllowed, everybody's even and can have a great gameplay as long as they arent tards/bot/hackt.
That WILL happen someday, we just have to wait...

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:31 am 
Frequent Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1485
Location:
Alps
nightbloom wrote:
great post. I completely agree.


and i have pmed SG about this with my views as others may have.

_________________
Hardware Reviews & UnBoxing Some of the Best Hardware @ GreatNova.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:35 am 
Valued Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 380
Location: here
Still imo private servers will never be fair, since the owner always have the possibility to make anyone capped and uber rich.

I would rather have careless admins like JM than some random team controlling one server.

Oh and also, the fact that most people dont have the knowledge to really modify the game files and add features/fix bugs, I wouldnt really like to play a game that will always stays the same, no update.

Unless the guys can get updated leaked files.. Which would be quite weird. I doubt JM and other companies running SROs will let that happens. THey probably aware now that someone sent the files to someone outside the company, and no companies will ever tolerate that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:15 am 
Banned User
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4383
Location:
Off Topic
Dont forget, the Chinese GMs hate us

_________________
------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:20 am 
Banned User
Offline

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3182
Location:
Babel
It's funny how threads about the private server get locked because a small amount support bots, when in all actuality, there's maybe 2% bots. People actually WANT to play this server because the exp/sp ratio has been fixed. I've seen a few bots, and you know what? The protectors from the grocery shop work on them. Problem solved, not a big deal, and most def not something to lock over.

_________________
<<banned from SRF for proof of botting. -SG>>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:29 am 
Common Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 160
Location:
Xian
Yes i agree that bots on a 10x server is SAD AND NOT anymore 'legit' than joymax.

however, i think many of us suffered more than enough under the cruppted hands of joymax. We should at least allow this private server topic to remain open, until newer ones come out. I believe in a way, the server act as a 'refugee camp' for those legit noobs that tried to play the real version, only to be ownd by bots

in breif, Im just saying that this server might act as a relief for those who've been pushed around by the bots in isro. ( i've been legit, up to 46, but the bots+server traffic is just too annoying). i think all other new players who wish to try this game should get a slightly more fair chance. (playing on the private server)

_________________
zszc: 7838 LVL 105 INT HYBRID DUAL WEP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:47 am 
Ex-Staff
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 9250
Location: Sand
Itonami wrote:
It's funny how threads about the private server get locked because a small amount support bots, when in all actuality, there's maybe 2% bots. People actually WANT to play this server because the exp/sp ratio has been fixed. I've seen a few bots, and you know what? The protectors from the grocery shop work on them. Problem solved, not a big deal, and most def not something to lock over.


The exp/sp ratio has not been fixed. You simply level faster and gain SP faster, but you don't gain more sp than exp. Therefore you will still have a shortage of SP. 10x sp and 10x exp is the same concept as 1x exp and 1x sp. A good ratio is 3:1 not 1:1 which is in concept the same as Joymax'. ~ so there goes your first argument.

Referring to the second argument. These servers no matter how you see it are not Legit. Your argument of their legitimacy is laughable, They give bots to those who buy silk, they give gold to those who buy silk. Simply because protectors work on old bots doesn't really do much. Last I checked protectors have a 30 minute cool down. Most on the server don't bot, but the company that funds the server openly supports botting, therefore the server isn't legit.

Your 3rd argument was only 2% of private servers support botting. Wrong again first off: since this is the only working private server, and since the "producers" support bots [even though its checked] that means 100% of the working private servers support bots. Another thing if you check Known emu/private server sites you will notice they also blatantly support botting. Way to smack a legit in the face, eh?

@NB, your Hypocrisy disgust me. In the past you would have fervently opposed an Illegitimate [bot/gold selling] private server, especially when the means to get it working involve editing SRO which in the past you also opposed. Before being so judgmental on SRF how about you turn the mirror on yourself and your forum. Oh, how the mighty have fallen :roll:

The argument most have is that if we prevent private server links why don't we ban the "teaching" of media.pk2 editing. A rather weak argument :roll: This Private server not all private servers is shunned by the srf staff because it is run by an Illegitimate company. The companies goal is to make money off an unlicensed product. Our stance on Media.pk2 is as rigid as our stance on this private server: We don't allow LINKS we don't allow downloads, you may discuss, but the first Link to a pre-edited media.Pk2 results in a NUKE. Same goes with this private server, the only working private server, we prevent links to the site. As far as the srf staff is concerned any server associated with bots or gold selling is Illegitimate, and therefore links to the site or any downloads relating to this particular private server will be Nuked on sight.

EDIT:
boybitz699 wrote:
Yes i agree that bots on a 10x server is SAD AND NOT anymore 'legit' than joymax.

however, i think many of us suffered more than enough under the cruppted hands of joymax. We should at least allow this private server topic to remain open, until newer ones come out. I believe in a way, the server act as a 'refugee camp' for those legit noobs that tried to play the real version, only to be ownd by bots

in breif, Im just saying that this server might act as a relief for those who've been pushed around by the bots in isro. ( i've been legit, up to 46, but the bots+server traffic is just too annoying). i think all other new players who wish to try this game should get a slightly more fair chance. (playing on the private server)


Your argument is flawed, The don't like the game because they can't handle the grind. They either A]Join the bot horde, B]Leave, or C]stay, whine, and get no where. 10x rates with a 1:1 ratio :roll: , you're still going to need to farm regardless of the rates. LOL, If your legit instead of running to an Illegitimate private server [under the guise: "its a safe haven"] that doesn't want you there, how about you "pull an Avalon"

Admit it you, can't take the grind, you want 80 NAO, and you want minimum effort. 10x rates with 1:1 ratio + bots and selling silk. :roll: ROFLMFAO!

_________________
Maddening
Image


Last edited by Barotix on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Food for thought just saying my view on priv server
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:52 am 
Frequent Member
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1424
Location:
Off Topic
You_Dead_Yet wrote:
Still imo private servers will never be fair, since the owner always have the possibility to make anyone capped and uber rich.

I would rather have careless admins like JM than some random team controlling one server.

Oh and also, the fact that most people dont have the knowledge to really modify the game files and add features/fix bugs, I wouldnt really like to play a game that will always stays the same, no update.

Unless the guys can get updated leaked files.. Which would be quite weird. I doubt JM and other companies running SROs will let that happens. THey probably aware now that someone sent the files to someone outside the company, and no companies will ever tolerate that.

i have doubts as to your private server experience. You would not belive how much intellegence and updates/fixes go into lineage2/ WoW priv servers.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 82 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group