What do you consider legit?

ThisIsAvalon · **Joined:** Nov 2007 **Posts:** 1163 **Location:**

Cheetos wrote:

avalon i feel sorry for u foo im intrigued by ur guild members
y u guys so gay for

They like my body. :wink:

Cheetos · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 81 **Location:** VENUS DUDE

inzu owns u guys

nightbloom · **Joined:** Jan 2006 **Posts:** 5492 **Location:**

XemnasXD wrote:

so whats the unfair advantage given by a no-dc client....it doesn't even guarantee login it just doesn't kick you out when you inevitably are unable to login....whats the unfair advantage in that....its victim-less and had no impact on anyone except the user whatsoever....

Because 3rd party program/altered client use has always been a no no. PK2 editing doesnt alter the client at all. Its not re engineered and anyone can do it if they read for 2 seconds in the guides section. Its a completely different animal.

Necrobat · **Posted:** Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:15 am

Cheetos wrote:

inzu owns u guys

Wow! I'm being owned by someone I've never even heard of! I'm shakin' in my boots.

nightbloom · **Joined:** Jan 2006 **Posts:** 5492 **Location:**

No joke, who the heck is Inzu?

Cheetos · **Joined:** Aug 2007 **Posts:** 81 **Location:** VENUS DUDE

the guy that owned Khaara at sungsungs earlier it was funny khaara was trying so hard and he/she whatever the hell she is kept losing aha ks wars but khaara got owned

MrFudge · **Joined:** Jan 2007 **Posts:** 5731 **Location:** None

Cr4ck wrote:

SuicideGrl wrote:

you amaze me.

botting is obviously not legit. where the hell do you think that gold you are buying comes from? from legits who so kindly donate it to gold companies? get real and get with the program. gold-selling companies have HOARDS of clientless and cliented bots in every server 24/7 collecting gold to sell to people like you, who either don't care that it's not legit or have convinced themselves it is. i have a secret for you, my boy. IT'S NOT.

banned. i hope that clears up that little section of the debate.

bottin companies get gold from actuall players + gold botts. but like i said again gold only makes u buy stuff for ur self. Dont u buy item scrolls ? for ur char to be stronger ? And topic says what u consider a legit , and i simple posted my opinion that i dont consider gold buyers non legt , u in the other hand are just to trigger happy to ban people.
Dont bother replying since im banned.

Forwarding that response given to me by Cr4ck himself.

HyorunmarouZ · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 1839 **Location:** Hell.

SuicideGrl wrote:

let me ask this: do you people REALLY want us to ban pk2? i mean come on. there's a huge portion of the community that spends a lot of time and effort in unlocking cool elements from the game that have not been experimented with or released yet, and it doesn't hurt anyone at all.

if at some point it is proven that pk2 can alter the state of invisibility for rogues, etc., we will re-examine the issue, but let's not get carried away here. we are focusing on those who hurt our gameplay. if you're gonna draw a line in the sand, draw the right line.

If that day ever comes, i hope we get one post to say goodbye

pk2 editing makes the tedious grind a bit less tedious (for some of us) just entertaining the sight, nothing more (to me at least).

OnT: i doubt i can add anything, but whatever thing that gives you an advantage over other players that's not either provided by JM in their game (such as Sealed items or elixirs, etc) or by Silk buying legally, then i'd consider it unlegit.

Though Sylhana's point of view is the most real one. If JM allows it, so be it.

Goobronicus · **Joined:** Nov 2007 **Posts:** 1011 **Location:**

HyorunmarouZ wrote:

Though Silhana's point of view is the most real one. If JM allows it, so be it.

That's a scary thought :shock:

HyorunmarouZ · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 1839 **Location:** Hell.

Goobronicus wrote:

HyorunmarouZ wrote:

Though Sylhana's point of view is the most real one. If JM allows it, so be it.

That's a scary thought :shock:

It is indeed

but it's their game after all...

tedtwilliger · **Posted:** Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:38 am

HyorunmarouZ wrote:

If JM allows it, so be it.

But what do you define "allow" as?

Sure they can set up a tonne of laws, but are the laws really practical when they aren't enforced? For instance the classic view of most players is that JM wont ban bots. So if this is actually true and they aren't administrating their laws, does it not make the laws void? Laws can only exist if someone is there to enforce them.

Posei · **Joined:** Dec 2006 **Posts:** 856 **Location:**

Sylhana wrote:

tedtwilliger wrote:

Sylhana wrote:

Not breaking the ToS? (as far as gameplay is concerned)

See now i would of said this as well. But the joymax tos doesn't allow for anyone to alter the client. So by this definition using p2k to do something like.. edit your 7th degree sword into an 8th degree sword makes you a non legit?

This is the iffy bit. I chose my words carefully to not include pk2 edits that only give a client sided aesthetic alteration for the player. By all means, yes this is client alteration.

That is open to discussion what you all think about pk2 edits, cause in my opinion, it gives minimal (if at all) any gameplay advantage. Other users do not see the alteration, and doing so (say change your weapon to a sosun glow) is akin to deluding oneself or sticking post-its on the computer screen, to remind yourself you have something that you dont

.

Language filter removal? Font fix? Naked chars (oh dear)? All can be pk2 edited. Advantage in gameplay? Or is that irrelevant to play legitimacy. Discuss.

Syl

Another part to discuss regarding pk2 editing is remember some people made [GM] accounts? Which didn't just affect what they saw, everyone in the game saw them. So what's everyones thoughts about that? Is that still defined as 'not affecting anyone else'?

Goobronicus · **Joined:** Nov 2007 **Posts:** 1011 **Location:**

This is starting to sound like Bill Clinton and define "is"

/end of political reference.

Sylhana · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 3467 **Location:**

Posei wrote:

Another part to discuss regarding pk2 editing is remember some people made [GM] accounts? Which didn't just affect what they saw, everyone in the game saw them. So what's everyones thoughts about that? Is that still defined as 'not affecting anyone else'?

I'm sure some accounts got banned for that. You wouldnt get far in the game by impersonating a GM, although at the time players who did it used it to dc bots. Whatever the intentions are to attempt such a feat couldnt possibly justify the potential abuse it could bring (impersonation of a GM).

HyorunmarouZ · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 1839 **Location:** Hell.

tedtwilliger wrote:

HyorunmarouZ wrote:

If JM allows it, so be it.

But what do you define "allow" as?

Sure they can set up a tonne of laws, but are the laws really practical when they aren't enforced? For instance the classic view of most players is that JM wont ban bots. So if this is actually true and they aren't administrating their laws, does it not make the laws void? Laws can only exist if someone is there to enforce them.

Yeah i was thinking about it when i posted. I meant the ToS, what they are supposed to allow or not, but, in the end it's like Sui said, JM doesn't enforce their own laws, though that doesn't mean we should break them.

If they officially allow it, so be it (in my opinion it is). It might be a more appropriate sentence. Wether they act or not if that limit is crossed, is not something that we can control (we might be able as customers, but many players just don't care enough to try something). They might delete the ToS for all they care and let pleyers do whatever they want, but they should act as a company with rules and regulations.

Those rules are just a PK2 edit for me

they are just for looks, the real deal is underneath, in the actual game.

MrFudge · **Joined:** Jan 2007 **Posts:** 5731 **Location:** None

GM_Sexy lurks around takla on babel.

I caught him yesterday.

look im still 79, turned 80 a bit afterwards.

so yea, pk2 is a no-go for me since it still allows you to make the GM name.

Posei · **Joined:** Dec 2006 **Posts:** 856 **Location:**

Ya there's a fake GM that runs around Alexander still every now and then. Funny to see the people who don't know it's fake freak out cause they think it's real XD

HyorunmarouZ · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 1839 **Location:** Hell.

MrFudge wrote:

GM_Sexy lurks around takla on babel.

I caught him yesterday.

so yea, pk2 is a no-go for me since it still allows you to make the GM name.

I didn't know "GM_" names were impossible to made. "[GM]" on the other hand...

Aiyas · **Posted:** Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:46 am

HyorunmarouZ wrote:

MrFudge wrote:

GM_Sexy lurks around takla on babel.

I caught him yesterday.

so yea, pk2 is a no-go for me since it still allows you to make the GM name.

I didn't know "GM_" names were impossible to made. "[GM]" on the other hand...

So that's why they've been spamming those "Beware of fake GMs" notices.

HyorunmarouZ · **Joined:** Mar 2007 **Posts:** 1839 **Location:** Hell.

Aiyas wrote:

HyorunmarouZ wrote:

MrFudge wrote:

GM_Sexy lurks around takla on babel.

I caught him yesterday.

so yea, pk2 is a no-go for me since it still allows you to make the GM name.

I didn't know "GM_" names were impossible to made. "[GM]" on the other hand...

So that's why they've been spamming those "Beware of fake GMs" notices.

Yeah, but i mean, you don't need to do anything special edit or something to make a "GM_whatever" name or do you? (i think you don't but i might be wrong), however, it is impossible to make "[GM]whatever" names.

That was my point because they are obviously fake

THE_ZUL · **Joined:** Nov 2006 **Posts:** 1031 **Location:**

for me legit stand for

-No botting
-No 3rd Party software
-No buying golds
-No being Powerlevel/Powerfarm
-No scamming

that how i define as legit

XemnasXD · **Posted:** Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:57 pm

nightbloom wrote:

XemnasXD wrote:

so whats the unfair advantage given by a no-dc client....it doesn't even guarantee login it just doesn't kick you out when you inevitably are unable to login....whats the unfair advantage in that....its victim-less and had no impact on anyone except the user whatsoever....

Because 3rd party program/altered client use has always been a no no. PK2 editing doesnt alter the client at all. Its not re engineered and anyone can do it if they read for 2 seconds in the guides section. Its a completely different animal.

don't you run a site that supports the use and spread of private servers....thats altering off the scale by comparison. How can you be so gung ho for something thats clearly against the ToS and is far more harmful than a no-dc modified client, in fact the server is run by a bot/gold company.....your sending mixed messages here. Pk2 i understand doesn't harm anyone but neither does the no-dc client yet your so firmly against it...why is it ok to support private servers but not a program thats just as harmless to everyone as Pk2

ArchYourFace · **Joined:** Oct 2007 **Posts:** 638 **Location:**

Necrobat wrote:

MrFudge wrote:

how is no-dc not legit?

doesnt change anything in game.
its still a pain to log in as far as i know, i havent needed one since ive been on premium but more power to the one who can log in fastest.

Because it gives its user an unfair advantage over somebody without one. Anything that gives an unfair advantage is non-legit as far as I'm concerned.

I don’t really have any stance on any of this (im simply going to state facts as best as they were presented to me), but one thing I disagree with is THIS explination of what makes one illegitimate. You cant say that something that gives an advantage is illegitimate. Otherwise my 32+5 som bow would be illegit. Anyone who uses droped weapons over npc has an advantage. The real issue here, is, plain and simple. Not following the ToS is what make one illegitamate. Nothing more, nothing less. This includes PK2 editing in any way. The previously mentioned EXCUSE is used by pretty much everyone who pk2 edits, and still wants to be "legit." this IS NOT directed at you necro (as a matter of fact I believe you placed yourself against this by stating "editing the client in any way is wrong" or something like that.) You just so happened to be the one to use this cliched phrase that holds no grounds anywhere. NO DC can be achieved by editing similar to the way you edit your weapon or pet. Do you REALLY think JM want ppl to just edit themselves a bear. NO! They want you to buy it, and support the servers. So, all these high and mighty jack-asses should really stop and think about what they are saying and how it would make them look IF people knew what THEY were doing.
As a matter of fact, this "everyone make up their own rules goes so far as to say Macros are disallowed. I personally asked MD (on the official site) they took the time to answer me and say that they arent against the rule and that they use them too. If funny how me like to force everyone to live up to our standard, and if they don’t, the get shunned like youre a bunch of amish folk.

forgive me if i anger you necro

nightbloom · **Joined:** Jan 2006 **Posts:** 5492 **Location:**

XemnasXD wrote:

nightbloom wrote:

XemnasXD wrote:

so whats the unfair advantage given by a no-dc client....it doesn't even guarantee login it just doesn't kick you out when you inevitably are unable to login....whats the unfair advantage in that....its victim-less and had no impact on anyone except the user whatsoever....

Because 3rd party program/altered client use has always been a no no. PK2 editing doesnt alter the client at all. Its not re engineered and anyone can do it if they read for 2 seconds in the guides section. Its a completely different animal.

don't you run a site that supports the use and spread of private servers....thats altering off the scale by comparison. How can you be so gung ho for something thats clearly against the ToS and is far more harmful than a no-dc modified client, in fact the server is run by a bot/gold company.....your sending mixed messages here. Pk2 i understand doesn't harm anyone but neither does the no-dc client yet your so firmly against it...why is it ok to support private servers but not a program thats just as harmless to everyone as Pk2

The private server isnt iSRO. It isnt even based on the iSRO client. It in no way affects iSRO. I dont play it and I think giving the makers of that private server money is retarded, Ive stated it a million times.

I will say that when iSRO has a working emulator, I am on board. Emulators and private servers arent illegal.

ArchYourFace · **Joined:** Oct 2007 **Posts:** 638 **Location:**

nightbloom wrote:

The private server isnt iSRO. It isnt even based on the iSRO client. It in no way affects iSRO. I dont play it and I think giving the makers of that private server money is retarded, Ive stated it a million times.

I will say that when iSRO has a working emulator, I am on board. Emulators and private servers arent illegal.

um, im pretty sure they are. they require reverse engineering of someone elses software, that they worked hard on, and have copyrighted. kinda like pk2 editing. though one is easier than the other, doesnt make it any different.

Hellraider · **Joined:** Aug 2006 **Posts:** 902 **Location:**

For me legit is like if your character is made by hand, your equipment comes from hard work and not through shortcuts like gold buying and botting.

Botting = not legit
Gold buying = not legit
3rd party software not related to any botting = legit

ArchYourFace · **Joined:** Oct 2007 **Posts:** 638 **Location:**

[SW]Hellraider wrote:

For me legit is like if your character is made by hand, your equipment comes from hard work and not through shortcuts like gold buying and botting.

Botting = not legit
Gold buying = not legit
3rd party software not related to any botting = legit

what about the drops picked up by bots that are sold? like on the new servers. they bot up to cap and begin the supply chain for the future high levels. *sarcasm*

nightbloom · **Joined:** Jan 2006 **Posts:** 5492 **Location:**

ArchYourFace wrote:

nightbloom wrote:

The private server isnt iSRO. It isnt even based on the iSRO client. It in no way affects iSRO. I dont play it and I think giving the makers of that private server money is retarded, Ive stated it a million times.

I will say that when iSRO has a working emulator, I am on board. Emulators and private servers arent illegal.

um, im pretty sure they are. they require reverse engineering of someone elses software, that they worked hard on, and have copyrighted. kinda like pk2 editing. though one is easier than the other, doesnt make it any different.

LOL If that were true, there wouldnt be so many private servers out there openly functioning. Show me an instance where a free private server got shut down?

Reverse engineering is protected under US Law. If these emulated servers were designed using the maker's source code then there would be a problem. They arent, they are hand coded.

foudre · **Joined:** Jul 2007 **Posts:** 3604 **Location:**

you are as legit as you want to be, it depends how much you care about the game if you consider it wrong to cheat. Me I don't like cheating, and i definatly hate gold bots, i'd rather lvl slowly then get plvled the whole way because plvling is boring though, and leaves you unsatisfied with your charector. to me, no botting, no gold buying, no scamming, no dc client is ok for those that have them (i don't but i dont' care if they do), i don't like people with stall charectors thats as annoying as a gold bot to me.
plvl is ok in moderation, so long as the majority of your xp is grinded but that goes back to how much you care, the only real problem with plvls is how out of hand they are, too many plvling instead of grinding means no parties, means more people buying gold, if you buy gold to buy plvls you are not legit, but thats cause you bought gold, if you spend time earning the gold then sure ok plvl if you want, you earned the gold fair and square spend as you like.

and people using bringing an unjobbed cleric with them (counter unjobbed cleric is ok if they start it)

how ever i do want to see bots off my server, simply cause they have enough bot servers go play some where people want you, I don't want to see bots ksing me or acting like jerks all the time, If you dont' want to play the game then don't play it botting because you dont' want to play just takes up server room

edit: you can't convince a cheater that cheating is boring and wrong and you can't convince a legit that cheating is fun and ok

torinchibi · **Joined:** Sep 2007 **Posts:** 1357 **Location:**

I am no fan of powerlvling, but technically it's legal even if it's done by a bot. As long as the character getting plvled isn't running the bot, modified client (multi-client), you can pretty much powerlevel yourself to 80 and a GM can't do anything except ban the power leveler. People have done it, and we probably all know a few of those who have, but in our hearts, they are no different than botters. Bragging about it is even worse.
I would call anyone who got powerleveled by a bot past lvl 40 non-legit. If bots weren't so wide spread, I would say any powerleveling by a bot is not legit, but can you seriously blame a noobie that couldn't tell the difference? (40 is the limit because that's the end of academy apprentice level where help is expected from guardians, and real noobies wouldn't know any better.)

Buying anything besides silk is not legit. It's not only illegal ingame, you could actually be sued for it irl.
Using any modified client is illegal. Yes sadly no DC is included...even if JM should fix that themselves, but they don't for "security reasons"...I had my laugh when i first read that. It's just as illegal as using a pirated version of Windows or a cracked version of Norton (not even worth using, rofl). Even pk2 edits can help you ingame...maybe you made the sosun glow bright red so you can identify it better..or a 5d blade into a 10d sword because it looks similar to 6d blade and you don't want to get confused.
Any use of 3rd party programs....illegal. Some may argue vent could be called illegal, but it doesn't really affect the operation of sro and it's a separate program...not illegal.

Sylhana said anything against the ToS, but we all know the ToS is missing some obvious points...so that's not a really good representation.

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